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OfflineGandalfSon
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PTSD and Psilocybin
    #26826151 - 07/15/20 11:54 PM (30 days, 7 hours ago)

Title says it all.

At one point I was on 9 different medications and required to take random piss tests wherein metabolites were sent to the court as a term of my punishment for Self medication lmao.

CBD was an eye opener for me and I stopped all my prescribed med to take CBD. I noticed that marijuana had better effects but after experimentation I think THC is a potentiator  rather than something in its own right.


More recently I began to explore psychedelics and I cannot say how awesome this journey has been.
Shrooms have helped me reunite with God.


-I deleted some rambling. Don’t drink and post 😂


Edited by GandalfSon (07/16/20 01:22 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: GandalfSon]
    #26826453 - 07/16/20 07:42 AM (30 days, 10 minutes ago)

your enthusiasm says it all


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26838621 - 07/22/20 03:33 PM (23 days, 16 hours ago)

It only worries me that my joy of psychedelics and belief in their healing properties is potentially a delusion :frown: I will never know for sure. I hate not being able to prove stuff.


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OfflineThe Blind Ass
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26838656 - 07/22/20 03:53 PM (23 days, 15 hours ago)

Think of the fact that someone can be feeling pain in a limb that had been missing for 10+ years.  And that the pain, that is really felt & experienced to the one missing the limb, can sometimes be relieved by yet another trick so that the pain goes away altogether - can elucidate the nature of healing that can be brought about by using psychedelics.

Phantom pain, doesn’t always need traditional healing per say, it sometimes just needs the appropriate perceptual shift to set things right.
corrective perspective!  I find Dreamtime & psychedelic healing to work very much in a similar way.


Real or unreal that’s beside the point.  Point is that theres a real impact on our life -  regardless of real or unreal.  That’s what matters, for better or worse.  Sometimes tripping or lucid dreaming is like accessing a fancy unlimited placebo effect.  Who cares if it’s taking place in an unreal & illusory/hallucinatory world? Much of the brain cannot tell the difference, and it responds as if the experiences were real.
It’s like a trick, use that knowledge wisely for betterment if you can.


And that’s only the half of it.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps - or -  give me death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (07/22/20 04:05 PM)


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Offlinethe strander
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26839093 - 07/22/20 07:18 PM (23 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Real or unreal that’s beside the point.  Point is that theres a real impact on our life -  regardless of real or unreal.  That’s what matters, for better or worse.  Sometimes tripping or lucid dreaming is like accessing a fancy unlimited placebo effect.  Who cares if it’s taking place in an unreal & illusory/hallucinatory world? Much of the brain cannot tell the difference, and it responds as if the experiences were real.
It’s like a trick, use that knowledge wisely for betterment if you can.


And that’s only the half of it.




This.

Don't let yourself think about it as something you'll be right about or else you have tricked yourself. If you enjoyed it and it helped you in the moment then it was right for you then, even if you later decide to stop for whatever reason.

Looking back on the past and regretting things that seemed right and good at the time will only cause pain. You can't know the future, so just use your best judgement in the present and forgive future you your past mistakes when, if, you get there.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: the strander] * 1
    #26839480 - 07/22/20 10:46 PM (23 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

the strander said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Real or unreal that’s beside the point.  Point is that theres a real impact on our life -  regardless of real or unreal.  That’s what matters, for better or worse.  Sometimes tripping or lucid dreaming is like accessing a fancy unlimited placebo effect.  Who cares if it’s taking place in an unreal & illusory/hallucinatory world? Much of the brain cannot tell the difference, and it responds as if the experiences were real.
It’s like a trick, use that knowledge wisely for betterment if you can.


And that’s only the half of it.




This.

Don't let yourself think about it as something you'll be right about or else you have tricked yourself. If you enjoyed it and it helped you in the moment then it was right for you then, even if you later decide to stop for whatever reason.

Looking back on the past and regretting things that seemed right and good at the time will only cause pain. You can't know the future, so just use your best judgement in the present and forgive future you your past mistakes when, if, you get there.





I'm going to have to slightly disagree.

If you don't desire to know any further than "what matters is that affected me for the better," then good for you.

But I think the OP needs to follow his desires. If your advice works for him, great. However I personally want to know what is real and what is an illusion and not have to wonder.

If this IS a universe of desire, that is mine.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 10:48 PM)


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OfflineThe Blind Ass
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: Vahn421]
    #26839525 - 07/22/20 11:14 PM (23 days, 8 hours ago)

So should we abandon any utility offered to us via dreaming? simply because they are unreal & illusory?  I think not.  It’s both a means to understanding - to knowledge & wisdom - and to healing to be able to skillfully utilize illusion for ones own betterment, comfort, and ease.  Just because you can discern between an optical illusion and “reality” doesn’t mean the optical illusion goes away.  So to forsake it out of some misguided sense of a quest for truth, is really just a waste of an intrinsic component to our sensory experience.  Because it’s going to be part of experience whether you desire it to be or not.

I’m not saying to fool oneself per say, I’m saying if you can heal yourself by changing your perspective by using illusion, do it.  Understanding the mechanics behind it is fine, in fact that’s even better. 

When the mechanics are perceived there’s greater clarity & room to perform illusion work that has a beneficial effect.

See lucid dreaming, it doesn’t come about because we are beguiled by appearances, but rather because one sees through them no matter how cunning they seem.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps - or -  give me death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (07/22/20 11:22 PM)


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26839572 - 07/22/20 11:43 PM (23 days, 8 hours ago)

If the delusional self is lesser than the self who is not delusional than by definition that delusional self is not what I want to be.

And if you can't tell which is which... that frustrates me.


I think my choices have led me to my current position and that my current position is better than if I had not done choices. But it could be delusion. I could want to like the drugs so much that I create bias.



Basically I'm saying drugs might be bad mmkay?


Can you not agree that its possible psychedelics have negatively impacted you?


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OfflineThe Blind Ass
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26839600 - 07/23/20 12:01 AM (23 days, 7 hours ago)

Delusion & illusion are predominant in the psychedelic experience, just like it is in dreams(hell, like it is in daily life if you pay any attention to the mind whatsoever).  I’m saying since that aspect is an intrinsic unavoidable part of our lives - why not learn to skillfully utilize it?  Since, when used skillfully, it can in fact, facilitate healing & understanding?

Anyways, nowadays - dreams & normal every day to day life & mind are more important & valuable to me than drugs of any sort.  That day to day consciousness & my life.  What else is there to really concern oneself with?

  If one abuses drugs or goes against what’s good for their own personal disposition  - you get the stick.  If you continue despite the obvious warning signs & consequences for long enough - you eventually have to pay the piper, go mad, or die.  That’s more or less simple cause and effect / action - reaction.  Everyone included.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps - or -  give me death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (07/23/20 12:43 AM)


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OfflineGandalfSon
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26845373 - 07/26/20 12:20 AM (20 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
It only worries me that my joy of psychedelics and belief in their healing properties is potentially a delusion :frown: I will never know for sure. I hate not being able to prove stuff.




Oldnameforgotten, this is a really good point and I’m 100% with you on the potential for delusion when it comes to discovering “spiritual truths” on psychedelics or when people honestly believe they are communing with extraterrestrial/inter-dimensional entities and all that. Impossible to prove they aren’t of course but logically it’s very possible that people are confusing a hallucination with a revelation.



From a therapeutic standpoint I think psychedelics have a much more realistic and objective basis. The most effective therapies in my experience are CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and actually just talk therapy kinda repetitively going through and talking about experiences. CBT seems to work by helping you to challenge your mental beliefs and testing to see if they are true and if so are they still beneficial or if it’s harmful. If harmful you then try to displace this thinking habit with new ones to sort of engineer new responses and associations. Talk therapy I think just acts as a form of desensitization allowing you to relive experiences and 1) process things you left unfinished; 2) integrate experiences so that you can better position it as the past as opposed to the current time.

Chemicals that affect your thinking are really useful in being able to shift your perspective and see from a new, somewhat new angle. I think that’s part of what is causing so many studies to show lasting therapeutic benefits for stuff like depression and anxiety. So even if the experience itself is “fake” the experience can create positive change.... kinda like how a fictional book can still create the sort of self-reflection that helps you grow.



I think The Blind Ass’es point is that a positive effect even if just a placebo is still positive. If imagination or delusion has quantifiable improvements then isn’t it in sone way a “real” effect? Have you seen the study with cancer patients that reported long-lasting relief of existential dread after guided trips? Sure their experience might have been “fake” but the improved quality of life is pretty significant regardless of whether or not it was all an illusion.


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OfflineGandalfSon
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Re: PTSD and Psilocybin [Re: GandalfSon]
    #26845381 - 07/26/20 12:43 AM (20 days, 7 hours ago)

Oh and sense I’m OP I guess that I can add some concrete details if anyone cares to argue the merits of this approach:

I’m not sure if this is unique brain chemistry or what but I have a pretty high natural tolerance to psychedelics and little visual effects even at high doses so I have trouble getting a “recreational” experience. What I experience the most is sort of an emotional trip.

1) I get sensations of a connection to The Universeor God that remind me of when I was a kid and deeply religious which is in stark contrast to the feeling of being “cut off” that plagued me for years. Sorta like once upon a time ai could “feel” a connection to God while praying and later on it felt like I was talking to myself until I just gave up. Maybe this is real and maybe it’s fake but it definitely FEELS like it’s real and makes the day to day seem more meaningful.

2) I’ve had issues with “shallow emotional effect”. Two metaphors I use are comparison to touching something with a thick glove or sex without a condom. Sure, I can sort of understand what I should be experiencing but it’s a very numbed and diluted version. I first noticed this with CBD but MUCH more with shrooms but it’s like a all the signals are working right and I feel “Alive”.

3) While tripping it seems really easy to “disengage” and readily discuss things I normally would keep locked up in this sort of repressed zone I refer to as my “Pandora’s box”. Being able to discuss and reflect on these in an impartial state could possibly be useful in the whole desensitization process.


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