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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26843599 - 07/24/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

At what point do rioters become freedom fighters?




WHEN THEY STOP FUCKING HARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE.



Who has been harmed during these protests?



Do you think attempting to burn down buildings knowing that people are inside is righteous conduct?


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OfflineKwyjibo
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26843601 - 07/24/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

At what point do rioters become freedom fighters?




WHEN THEY STOP FUCKING HARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE.



Who has been harmed during these protests?




A lot of innocent people, man... a lot of people. Children, even. I mean that from my heart. So many more than cops have been responsible for harming.

...and I'm not EVEN talking property damage and business livelihood, thought that alone is still enough for me... but lives HAVE been lost.

If the stats said otherwise, I'd change my mind on a dime.



Post the stats.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #26843620 - 07/24/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

A lot. Gotcha


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #26843635 - 07/24/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'll start with this. There were only 25 police killings of unarmed black men last year. (10+ or so were gunshot, the rest were tasered or other) Of those 25 we can't assume they were all not aggressive.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/23/fact-check-how-many-unarmed-black-men-did-police-kill-2019/5322455002/

Tucker Carlson does a segment on this and goes over 10 of the cases of unarmed black men specifically to break it down further. If you want to know how the problem is being blown out of proportion, watch his video here. (And again, I know police brutality IS a problem, but it's not NEARLY as big of a problem as we make it out to be. And there are other factors that make African Americans more culpable like the fact that they are 13% of the population and commit 50% of the murder in our nation. 50%!!!!!)

https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/03/tucker-carlson-police-shootings-genocide/


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26843645 - 07/24/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This is the United States where one of your rights is to keep and bear arms, right? Wouldn’t killing someone simply because they are armed be a violation of their civil rights, just as much as killing them for yelling a political slogan or going to church?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26843654 - 07/24/20 09:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Correct, Koods.


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OfflineKwyjibo
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26843704 - 07/24/20 10:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I'll start with this. There were only 25 police killings of unarmed black men last year. (10+ or so were gunshot, the rest were tasered or other) Of those 25 we can't assume they were all not aggressive.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/23/fact-check-how-many-unarmed-black-men-did-police-kill-2019/5322455002/

Tucker Carlson does a segment on this and goes over 10 of the cases of unarmed black men specifically to break it down further. If you want to know how the problem is being blown out of proportion, watch his video here. (And again, I know police brutality IS a problem, but it's not NEARLY as big of a problem as we make it out to be. And there are other factors that make African Americans more culpable like the fact that they are 13% of the population and commit 50% of the murder in our nation. 50%!!!!!)

https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/03/tucker-carlson-police-shootings-genocide/



That's hardly a comprehensive list of stats that would be enough to come to the conclusion that the rioters are responsible for more harm than the cops. How about some hard numbers?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26843712 - 07/24/20 10:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Well what has wheeler done to help stop people from rioting or regain order in the city? If you think sitting idle while a mob loots and burns the city is managing the situation well then idk what to tell you. They may not have asked for help but you already said that the president has a duty to protect American citizens.  If the federal government feels that cities aren't doing enough to keep its citizens safe when can the president decide that enoughs enough and step in?  If they weren't doing their jobs properly when can the boss step in?
Portland had been doing the same shit the federal contractors are doing. Hours After Gov. Kate Brown Signs Tear Gas Ban Into Law, Portland Police Deploy More Gas Onto Protesters  I would ask what the federal contractors have done differently or more effectively.  At what point do we declare the cure a poison?

How do you judge what the public wants? Do you seriously think that a mob (for the most part extremists) are a good way to judge what the public as a whole wants? Last time i checked a majority of people are not on the streets
I can judge comparatively.  Compared to every other time in my life, the public is clearly very much in favor of direct action and civil disobedience

What does the us military's conduct overseas have to do with a mobs conduct on the streets of America?  What makes you consider these rioters freedom fighters? That's actually a pretty bold take that i haven't heard yet
What is the fundamental difference between a military organization and a terrorist group?
Why would one set of morals apply in one geographic location and not another? 
Why would one series of violent actions be righteous and another terrorism? 
While i didn't declare the protesters to be freedom fighters I wouldn't be surprised if some thought of themselves as such.







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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #26843714 - 07/24/20 10:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lastly, and I know you're going to want "Evidence" for this, but take my word for it... a LOT more people in Portland want the rioters gone than they're willing to publicly admit.




If they aren’t willing to admit it, then how do you know? This is just more of you believing what you want to believe. I take your word that you believe it. But you have no idea if it’s true.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26843720 - 07/24/20 10:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

At what point do rioters become freedom fighters?




WHEN THEY STOP FUCKING HARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE.



Who has been harmed during these protests?



Do you think attempting to burn down buildings knowing that people are inside is righteous conduct?




I asked who has been harmed. Providing this information shouldn’t contingent on my opinion of attempted arson. He says “a lot” of people have been harmed by the protesters/rioters. It shouldn’t be that hard to list some examples.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26843730 - 07/24/20 10:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Wouldnt all depend on the minds, as a whole, that give creedence and subjugation to their governance? Meaning, people accept the actions (of "federal contractors") due to the consent of being governed, amongst other things. Through this lense, the rioters would not be justified in a violent response.




"Riots" are one of the most obvious and overt methods of indicating a retraction of consent from the governed.
also, understand that when I say "federal contractors" I'm not talking about anyone that has taken an oath.  I'm talking about mercs.

The Lead Federal Agency Responding to Protesters in Portland Employs Thousands of Private Contractors
Quote:

The Trump administration’s deployment of federal law enforcers in Portland, Oregon, as part of a supposed effort to protect government property has prompted at least two lawsuits alleging that their show of force has resulted in abuses of authority and the unnecessary use of violence against peaceful protesters, journalists and observers.
What has not been reported widely in the media, however, is the fact that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) unit that is coordinating the “crowd control” effort — an agency called the Federal Protective Service (FPS) — is composed largely of contract security personnel. Those contractors are being furnished to FPS by major private-sector security companies like Blackwater corporate descendant Triple Canopy as well as dozens of other private security firms.
In fact, FPS spends more than $1 billion a year on these contract security guards who are authorized to conduct crowd control at federal properties, such as those in Portland.




The federal crackdown in Portland is ‘legal.’ That’s the problem with it.
Quote:

To execute its plan to suppress unrest — and provide striking images for Fox News — it found a statute titled “Law enforcement authority of Secretary of Homeland Security for protection of public property” (40 U.S. Code § 1315), which is normally used to empower and enlist help for the Federal Protective Service. In the course of protecting buildings, the empowered officers are allowed to investigate and make arrests for “any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States.”

The FPS’s roughly 1,300 officers are dwarfed by more than 13,000 contractors, who provide most of the security at federal buildings across the country. The head of its own union declared the agency “the bottom of the food chain” in DHS. It hasn’t updated its Web page on its annual activities since 2013.

Yet it’s in this obscure corner of DHS that Wolf found the authority to dispatch agents




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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #26843743 - 07/24/20 10:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Kwyjibo said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I'll start with this. There were only 25 police killings of unarmed black men last year. (10+ or so were gunshot, the rest were tasered or other) Of those 25 we can't assume they were all not aggressive.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/23/fact-check-how-many-unarmed-black-men-did-police-kill-2019/5322455002/

Tucker Carlson does a segment on this and goes over 10 of the cases of unarmed black men specifically to break it down further. If you want to know how the problem is being blown out of proportion, watch his video here. (And again, I know police brutality IS a problem, but it's not NEARLY as big of a problem as we make it out to be. And there are other factors that make African Americans more culpable like the fact that they are 13% of the population and commit 50% of the murder in our nation. 50%!!!!!)

https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/03/tucker-carlson-police-shootings-genocide/



That's hardly a comprehensive list of stats that would be enough to come to the conclusion that the rioters are responsible for more harm than the cops. How about some hard numbers?




I said that's where I'd "start." I'm establishing a baseline. Considering the counter point (rioting damage and deaths), is going to take a lot longer to establish a case for because there are no hard stats and you have to gather a lot of breadcrumbs, I'll post it tomorrow.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26843751 - 07/24/20 10:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

lastly, and I know you're going to want "Evidence" for this, but take my word for it... a LOT more people in Portland want the rioters gone than they're willing to publicly admit.




If they aren’t willing to admit it, then how do you know? This is just more of you believing what you want to believe. I take your word that you believe it. But you have no idea if it’s true.




A careful analysis of human behavior and an understanding of the silent majority that is growing is part of it. Knowing that the left silences other views is apart of it. A stat I saw yesterday affirms the only political party that has a MAJORITY who feels comfortable expressing their political views is middle to far left. This is building a growing resentment inside of Americans. It's the reason Trump won in the first place in 2016. They felt their voices were being silenced... it's only gotten worse. I have so many friends and peers and even a few family members that in the last year alone have been like "WTF happened to the democratic party? I can't believe I'm going to vote for Trump."

Fuck man, I'm actually shocked the left is making the SAME MISTAKE they did in 2016 by making an anti-trump case rather than a pro-biden case.

Why do people vote for Trump? Oh LOTS of reasons, I assure you.

Why do people vote for a senile pedophile? Cuz... not Trump. And then they yell at Trump supports and call them racist exists who support a clown. They have NO case for Biden. They just scream "not Trump!"

Trump wins.

You have no idea how big the silent majority is becoming. I'll bet Trump gets 55% of the popular vote this year.

I couldn't be good at my job without guessing correctly more often than I miss. I'll eat my words if Trump isn't re-elected.

But give me credit for my foresight if I happen to be right.


Edited by Vahn421 (07/24/20 11:12 PM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26843759 - 07/24/20 11:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I guess we'll just have to take your word for it.


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OfflineKwyjibo
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Kwyjibo] * 1
    #26843760 - 07/24/20 11:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:


I said that's where I'd "start." I'm establishing a baseline. Considering the counter point (rioting damage and deaths), is going to take a lot longer to establish a case for because there are no hard stats and you have to gather a lot of breadcrumbs, I'll post it tomorrow.



But you said....
Quote:

Vahn421 said:


If the stats said otherwise, I'd change my mind on a dime.



Based on that I assumed that you had some sort of stats that you based your current position on. So given that you've now admitted that you don't know the numbers how can you say...
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
So many more than cops have been responsible for harming.





?


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26843762 - 07/24/20 11:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

"Riots" are one of the most obvious and overt methods of indicating a retraction of consent from the governed.




I agree amorally that this is how it works. However, it doesn't necessarily make it moral to do it.

What is YOUR definition of, "riot?"

If you're defining riots as I do, as people who have no qualms harming innocents and their property in their wake, then it is *not* moral to riot and retaliation is justified and typically desired by most civil humans. (If a city decides it is NOT justified to retaliate against a group that is harming innocent people, that city is fucked, basically.)

MY definition of riot FITS what is happening in Portland.

The fed is not targeting innocent people. To the extent that they are they need to stop and there needs to be consequences if anyone is harmed in any way more than being detained.  (When everyone wears all black for the sake of their "anonymity" they're ASKING to be detained.) As far as I've heard,  that's been the majority of "innocents" being targeted. Detainment. If there's been more I have not yet heard of it. But primarily, the fed is targeting those that incite violence and destroy property.

If they stay within those limits, they are completely justified


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/24/20 11:10 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26843764 - 07/24/20 11:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Kwyjibo. I said very clearly it's going to take a much larger post to paint a picture of what the rioting has done. Give me a bit of time, I'll make a good case.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26843767 - 07/24/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I think vahn is a professional psychic. I’m worried he may work for the TSA.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26843775 - 07/24/20 11:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Kwyjibo. I said very clearly it's going to take a much larger post to paint a picture of what the rioting has done. Give me a bit of time, I'll make a good case.




How hard is it to post some local news reports of people being injured by rioters and the buildings that have been burned down.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineKwyjibo
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26843783 - 07/24/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Kwyjibo. I said very clearly it's going to take a much larger post to paint a picture of what the rioting has done. Give me a bit of time, I'll make a good case.



If you want to make your case give me numbers. I don't care about you opinion on things, I just want you to hold yourself to the same standards you hold others to.


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