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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
#26843421 - 07/24/20 07:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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The difference between my position and Ballsalsa's is that he's willing to throw the entire city of Portland under the bus and watch it go to fucking hell just to make a point, and I'm not.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26843447 - 07/24/20 07:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ballsalsa,
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26843465 - 07/24/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Edit. Whoops.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/24/20 07:50 PM)
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
#26843481 - 07/24/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: But seriously tho im generally curious. At what point does the president have a duty to protect Americans? (Innocent people are being hurt by the rioting) always
And what a point does the government have a duty to protect federal property? (Theyre repeatedly trying to burn down federal buildings, and sometimes even with people inside) Anytime such is in the interest of the public
After 50 days of unrest when can the government draw the line and say enoughs enough? There are no time limits in the bill of rights, but the government could attempt to accede to the will of the public which would certainly go a long way towards ending the "unrest"
Where do you personally draw the line between protesting and rioting? ( they're not synonymous) It doesn't make a lot of difference to me in the context of a country waging a soft war on its own citizens. One man's riot is another man's fight against an occupying force. At this point, I agree with Vahn, the protesters in Portland are justified in any use of force in order to repel the invasion of their city
(My answers in Bold)
So how does that not apply in this case? When there is months of rioting and looting and there are people being hurt. Dozens dead and 100s injured during months of unrest doesn't meet the criteria to send in the feds when mayors are standing idle and mismanaging?
How is the destruction of public property ever in the best interest of the public? Or more importantly why is it in the best interest of the public to destroy federal buildings at this time?
The bill of rights doesn't not give you the right to riot though.. never has never will. Remember there is a difference between protesting and rioting
But you can argue that the only reason why your country "waged a soft war" on its own citizens was due to wide spread rioting and destruction and the attempted arsons of federal buildings. Maybe the rioters overstepped their bounds and left the government no choice? (By terrorizing their own cities?) Burning and destroying federal property or private property to further political goals is terrorism right?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Psilynut2]
#26843485 - 07/24/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said:
Quote:
The U.S. And Russia Are Stocking Up On Missiles And Nukes For A Different Kind Of War
Neither one is chill . That’s a crazy way to look at it .
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/01/690143095/the-u-s-and-russia-are-stocking-up-on-missiles-and-nukes-for-a-different-kind-of
Well, the Untied States withdrew from the Intermediate Nuclear-Range Forces (INF) treaty, claiming (without presenting evidence) that Russia was violating it.
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Colombia is chill .
Agreed.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
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Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26843501 - 07/24/20 08:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: Have you seen the drone footage of the Uighur Muslims being hauled off to concentration camps?
What's your take on it?
The same take you just quoted. 
"they're hauling Falun Gong off to teach them how to better integrate into Chines society. I'm not saying that's right or good, but we discussed the organ harvesting here, and it appears the only organs taken are from executed prisoners (including non Muslims)."
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MagicMush123] 1
#26843514 - 07/24/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: But seriously tho im generally curious. At what point does the president have a duty to protect Americans? (Innocent people are being hurt by the rioting) always
And what a point does the government have a duty to protect federal property? (Theyre repeatedly trying to burn down federal buildings, and sometimes even with people inside) Anytime such is in the interest of the public
After 50 days of unrest when can the government draw the line and say enoughs enough? There are no time limits in the bill of rights, but the government could attempt to accede to the will of the public which would certainly go a long way towards ending the "unrest"
Where do you personally draw the line between protesting and rioting? ( they're not synonymous) It doesn't make a lot of difference to me in the context of a country waging a soft war on its own citizens. One man's riot is another man's fight against an occupying force. At this point, I agree with Vahn, the protesters in Portland are justified in any use of force in order to repel the invasion of their city
(My answers in Bold)
So how does that not apply in this case? When there is months of rioting and looting and there are people being hurt. Dozens dead and 100s injured during months of unrest doesn't meet the criteria to send in the feds when mayors are standing idle and mismanaging? Who says they are mismanaging? How are they mismanaging? Did someone ask for federal help?
How is the destruction of public property ever in the best interest of the public? Or more importantly why is it in the best interest of the public to destroy federal buildings at this time? That is for the public to decide. If the people of Portland want to fuck up a courthouse, who am I to invade their city and beat/maim their citizens?
The bill of rights doesn't not give you the right to riot though.. never has never will. Remember there is a difference between protesting and rioting explain the difference
But you can argue that the only reason why your country "waged a soft war" on its own citizens was due to wide spread rioting and destruction and the attempted arsons of federal buildings. Maybe the rioters overstepped their bounds and left the government no choice? (By terrorizing their own cities?) Burning and destroying federal property or private property to further political goals is terrorism right? That really depends on one's opinion of the state monopoly on violence. The U.S. military burns and destroys shit all the time in the furtherance of political goals. At what point do rioters become freedom fighters?
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
#26843530 - 07/24/20 08:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
At what point do rioters become freedom fighters?
WHEN THEY STOP FUCKING HARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] 2
#26843547 - 07/24/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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So harming innocent people is what makes someone a rioter in your mind? If the federal contractors harm innocent people does that make them rioters worthy of being met with violence? Why or why not?
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
#26843554 - 07/24/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: But seriously tho im generally curious. At what point does the president have a duty to protect Americans? (Innocent people are being hurt by the rioting) always
And what a point does the government have a duty to protect federal property? (Theyre repeatedly trying to burn down federal buildings, and sometimes even with people inside) Anytime such is in the interest of the public
After 50 days of unrest when can the government draw the line and say enoughs enough? There are no time limits in the bill of rights, but the government could attempt to accede to the will of the public which would certainly go a long way towards ending the "unrest"
Where do you personally draw the line between protesting and rioting? ( they're not synonymous) It doesn't make a lot of difference to me in the context of a country waging a soft war on its own citizens. One man's riot is another man's fight against an occupying force. At this point, I agree with Vahn, the protesters in Portland are justified in any use of force in order to repel the invasion of their city
(My answers in Bold)
So how does that not apply in this case? When there is months of rioting and looting and there are people being hurt. Dozens dead and 100s injured during months of unrest doesn't meet the criteria to send in the feds when mayors are standing idle and mismanaging? Who says they are mismanaging? How are they mismanaging? Did someone ask for federal help?
How is the destruction of public property ever in the best interest of the public? Or more importantly why is it in the best interest of the public to destroy federal buildings at this time? That is for the public to decide. If the people of Portland want to fuck up a courthouse, who am I to invade their city and beat/maim their citizens?
The bill of rights doesn't not give you the right to riot though.. never has never will. Remember there is a difference between protesting and rioting explain the difference
But you can argue that the only reason why your country "waged a soft war" on its own citizens was due to wide spread rioting and destruction and the attempted arsons of federal buildings. Maybe the rioters overstepped their bounds and left the government no choice? (By terrorizing their own cities?) Burning and destroying federal property or private property to further political goals is terrorism right? That really depends on one's opinion of the state monopoly on violence. The U.S. military burns and destroys shit all the time in the furtherance of political goals. At what point do rioters become freedom fighters?
Well what has wheeler done to help stop people from rioting or regain order in the city? If you think sitting idle while a mob loots and burns the city is managing the situation well then idk what to tell you. They may not have asked for help but you already said that the president has a duty to protect American citizens. If the federal government feels that cities aren't doing enough to keep its citizens safe when can the president decide that enoughs enough and step in? If they weren't doing their jobs properly when can the boss step in?
How do you judge what the public wants? Do you seriously think that a mob (for the most part extremists) are a good way to judge what the public as a whole wants? Last time i checked a majority of people are not on the streets
What does the us military's conduct overseas have to do with a mobs conduct on the streets of America? What makes you consider these rioters freedom fighters? That's actually a pretty bold take that i haven't heard yet
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,308
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 26 minutes, 34 seconds
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26843559 - 07/24/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: I've already said it like 100 times, dude.
Protesters = Fine.
Rioters = Not Fine.
Now, for additional perspective.
Moms that defend protesters = fine.
Moms that defend rioters = collaborators
P.S. I don't mean to bring the hammer down so hard, but I'm annoyed. If you really want to understand my morality, we can talk. If you're going to mock me, I'm not as interested in giving a straight answer.
Our rights are guaranteed precisely so they are not capriciously violated because you get annoyed
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,308
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 26 minutes, 34 seconds
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
#26843561 - 07/24/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
f you think sitting idle while a mob loots and burns the city is managing the situation well then idk what to tell you.
The city is burning? I haven’t seen any fires 🤔
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
#26843564 - 07/24/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: So harming innocent people is what makes someone a rioter in your mind? If the federal contractors harm innocent people does that make them rioters worthy of being met with violence? Why or why not?
If you can detain anyone, rioter or federal officer, that's the first thing you do. Using violence to combat violence is only a secondary approach if the first doesn't work.
Having said that, any federal employees harming innocent civilians that have not participated in the riots is wrong and they should be disciplined, but I have ambiguous feelings about someone not throwing movotov cocktails who is standing right next to someone that IS and is saying nothing. They might as well be an accomplice.
Having said THAT, the vast majority of instances where the fed has unjustly arrested someone it was a catch and release and they were only held in custody for a very short period of time without any bodily injury.
Any other cases of the feds harming INNOCENT people are rare.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/24/20 08:51 PM)
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
#26843570 - 07/24/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
f you think sitting idle while a mob loots and burns the city is managing the situation well then idk what to tell you.
The city is burning? I haven’t seen any fires 🤔
This will be the second time I post this.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,523
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
#26843571 - 07/24/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wouldnt all depend on the minds, as a whole, that give creedence and subjugation to their governance? Meaning, people accept the actions (of "federal contractors") due to the consent of being governed, amongst other things. Through this lense, the rioters would not be justified in a violent response.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (07/24/20 08:53 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,308
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 26 minutes, 34 seconds
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26843578 - 07/24/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It’s still a violation of their civil rights.
Those goons are issuing indiscriminate violence against protesters. There’s tons of video. The whole situation is fucking theatre the law and order cultist.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,308
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 26 minutes, 34 seconds
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26843580 - 07/24/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
f you think sitting idle while a mob loots and burns the city is managing the situation well then idk what to tell you.
The city is burning? I haven’t seen any fires 🤔
This will be the second time I post this.

That’s a month old and I have no idea what the source is
Not that I don’t trust you, but I haven’t seen anything about a 100 buildings being destroyed in Portland. Is an arson attack anytime someone lights a fire cracker or sets a trash bin on fire? How many structures have burned? Did they at least get a police station?
Edited by koods (07/24/20 09:00 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,308
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 26 minutes, 34 seconds
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26843588 - 07/24/20 09:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
At what point do rioters become freedom fighters?
WHEN THEY STOP FUCKING HARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE.
Who has been harmed during these protests?
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
#26843594 - 07/24/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Some fires are larger than others. But arson is only one of many, many forms of property destruction.
I'm gonna say it again. The fed has *started* NOTHING. They're simply *ending* what other people started.
Remember when your mother asked "Who started it!?" and both kids point to each other at the same time?
That's what's going on now.
And lastly, and I know you're going to want "Evidence" for this, but take my word for it... a LOT more people in Portland want the rioters gone than they're willing to publicly admit.
The culture of the left has evolved into a perverse cancel culture and anyone that doesn't have a leftist opinion winds up being a target. You're not safe even if you publicly support them, just hope they stay out of your way.
Really... these rioters have no rhyme or reason and if you're an ally and happen to have property in the way, you're still fucked.
You can't paint blood over your door to have this particular destroying angel pass you by. You're just fucked.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/24/20 09:07 PM)
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
#26843596 - 07/24/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
At what point do rioters become freedom fighters?
WHEN THEY STOP FUCKING HARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE.
Who has been harmed during these protests?
A lot of innocent people, man... a lot of people. Children, even. I mean that from my heart. So many more than cops have been responsible for harming.
...and I'm not EVEN talking property damage and business livelihood, thought that alone is still enough for me... but lives HAVE been lost.
If the stats said otherwise, I'd change my mind on a dime.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/24/20 09:06 PM)
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