Home | Community | Message Board


MRCA Tyroler Gluckspilze
Please support our sponsors.

Community >> The Pub

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Amazon Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
About the Pandemic in America
    #26842989 - 07/24/20 06:03 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

I know a lot of us have been waiting for the pandemic to end. A lot of us have been waiting for an announcement from some authority figure (anyone, really - whoever you look up to and put your trust into) that, though this has been hell, it's finally over.

I'm here to ask a question that's been on my mind lately: what if you instead were to suddenly have the revelation that it doesn't end? What if you suddenly knew that things will just continue to get worse? What if you suddenly knew that the mandated masks, the lock-ins, the unstable economy, the protests, all of the shit we've been going through as Americans is just the beginning? What if you now knew that we can never go back to a state that will remind us of what used to be "normal" before this all started?

Would this newfound knowledge change your behavior? Would it change your relationships? Would it change your philosophy? Would it change your values? If so, why? If not, why not?

I find these questions to be increasingly important because, at least for now, we don't know whether or not this is actually going to get better at some point. All things eventually pass, but maybe not in this lifetime. We have to start thinking about the possibility that things are going to get a lot worse for a long time, and to start thinking about what that means to us.

I don't mean to be a downer here. If anything, I hope that thinking about these questions might bring us to some newfound appreciation for life - not hope, necessarily, but just appreciation and mindfulness. Much love to you all. Hope you're doing okay, mentally.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSeriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 13,494
Last seen: 16 minutes, 42 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26843013 - 07/24/20 06:17 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Well that sounds like a plausible but very dramatic interpretation. I know that pretty much the entirety of the rest of the world has gotten back to some degree of normality so I do know it's possible here. At the beginning of the pandemic I thought there is nothing anyone could do to even mitigate the virus but also from the very beginning I knew wearing a mask was important.

When this all began I believe most people were scared enough to wear the masks until the charts flattened. Then when we got to a place where we could start Phase 1 there began debates about wearing the masks and going through the proper phases to reopen and it's very clear where that got us. If we can get to a point where we can convince nearly all Americans to wear a mask it won't ever be "normal" again but it'd allow us to adapt, still run businesses , not overrun hospitals and funeral homes and not be so fucking terrified that a moron that thinks it's their right not to wear a mask is going kill your family members by you being asymptomatic.

So I know there's things we could do tomorrow nationwide that'd dramatically reduce our suffering


--------------------
R.I.P
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26843033 - 07/24/20 06:25 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Well that sounds like a plausible but very dramatic interpretation. I know that pretty much the entirety of the rest of the world has gotten back to some degree of normality so I do know it's possible here.




Yeah, I'm not trying to be pessimistic or anything. Of course, it's also possible that we can recover from this and enter a newer, healthier way of life. I'm not expecting the worst to actually happen, just thinking about how it would affect my life if things did continue to go south.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
At the beginning of the pandemic I thought there is nothing anyone could do to even mitigate the virus but also from the very beginning I knew wearing a mask was important.

When this all began I believe most people were scared enough to wear the masks until the charts flattened. Then when we got to a place where we could start Phase 1 there began debates about wearing the masks and going through the proper phases to reopen and it's very clear where that got us. If we can get to a point where we can convince nearly all Americans to wear a mask it won't ever be "normal" again but it'd allow us to adapt, still run businesses , not overrun hospitals and funeral homes and not be so fucking terrified that a moron that thinks it's their right not to wear a mask is going kill your family members by you being asymptomatic.




You know I was going to respond to this by saying I hate how politically divided everyone has become over the masks, but then I remembered that this is election season (easy to forget that sometimes). If it wasn't the masks, it was probably going to be something else getting everyone all riled up and divided.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
So I know there's things we could do tomorrow nationwide that'd dramatically reduce our suffering



Oh, absolutely. The problem at this point seems to be finding common ground among the working class and finding a platform big enough to voice our suggestions.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineichugwindex
Dex
Male


Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,542
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 3 hours, 26 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26843322 - 07/24/20 08:48 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

I have the very unpopular while simultaneously popular idea that If something this minor can kill you that YOU should be the one staying home. Unless of course you want to give out the monthly check to make the rest of us stay home. We will starve trying to save you otherwise. Seems pretty unfair currently.


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
OTD GANG MEMBER
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 29,005
Loc: Coast 2 Coast Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: ichugwindex] * 4
    #26843326 - 07/24/20 08:50 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)





Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineThe Blind Ass
Love affair with reality
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 9,845
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 33 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts] * 1
    #26843331 - 07/24/20 08:52 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

LoL.  :fonz:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps - or - give me death caps


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineichugwindex
Dex
Male


Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,542
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 3 hours, 26 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26843343 - 07/24/20 08:57 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Half the country cant survive a single week of not working without losing everything but somehow still no check. I want to help but this seems like a population control move from our capitalist overlords. I'm definitely not in the clear on this one


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
OTD GANG MEMBER
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 29,005
Loc: Coast 2 Coast Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: ichugwindex]
    #26843348 - 07/24/20 08:59 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Unemployment rate is 15%. Seems like at least 15% of people are doing it.

Hungry people don't roll over and die. They eat the rich.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineichugwindex
Dex
Male


Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,542
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 3 hours, 26 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts] * 1
    #26843355 - 07/24/20 09:02 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:
Unemployment rate is 15%. Seems like at least 15% of people are doing it.

Hungry people don't roll over and die. They eat the rich.





OMNOMNOM they have engineered us to eat the middle class though while they skate by laughing


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefeevers
Wanderer
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 3,947
Last seen: 28 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: ichugwindex] * 5
    #26843384 - 07/24/20 09:15 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

ichugwindex said:
I have the very unpopular while simultaneously popular idea that If something this minor can kill you that YOU should be the one staying home. Unless of course you want to give out the monthly check to make the rest of us stay home. We will starve trying to save you otherwise. Seems pretty unfair currently.




So far it seems pretty hard to predict who will get hit hard by it. Obviously the old, overweight and sick fair the worst statistically but that's also the bulk of our population. 40% of the US is obese, ~70% are overweight, tens of millions have one or more pre-existing conditions, 50 million are over age 65. So who gets to pick and choose who gets to stay home, and how are they going to afford to live and stimulate the economy while they do so?

Hindsight is obviously not worth a whole lot, but imo based on what's worked elsewhere, a 4-6 week complete shutdown except for absolute essentials like the food chain, utilities, medicine, emeregency services and such, with temporary universal basic income and essentially a freeze on the lending and rent economy, followed by a phased and gradual reopening, would have been the optimal scenario. Instead we half assed everything and essentially handed out new private islands and yacht fleets to the execs that fund our congress.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineThe Blind Ass
Love affair with reality
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 9,845
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 33 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26843392 - 07/24/20 09:17 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

:sadyes:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps - or - give me death caps


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineichugwindex
Dex
Male


Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,542
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 3 hours, 26 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26843404 - 07/24/20 09:23 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Cant we just send them all to Australia? If they survive the brutal conditions they get to come back


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
OTD GANG MEMBER
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 29,005
Loc: Coast 2 Coast Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: ichugwindex]
    #26843422 - 07/24/20 09:29 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

But muh freedoms. I don't want to wear a mask.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineichugwindex
Dex
Male


Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,542
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 3 hours, 26 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #26843425 - 07/24/20 09:31 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

No it's a survival island. The survivors earn the right to a mask and then the right to a civilized land


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSeriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 13,494
Last seen: 16 minutes, 42 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 2
    #26843627 - 07/24/20 11:24 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Well that sounds like a plausible but very dramatic interpretation. I know that pretty much the entirety of the rest of the world has gotten back to some degree of normality so I do know it's possible here.




Yeah, I'm not trying to be pessimistic or anything. Of course, it's also possible that we can recover from this and enter a newer, healthier way of life. I'm not expecting the worst to actually happen, just thinking about how it would affect my life if things did continue to go south.

ST: I can definitely understand what you're saying is that even through all of this shit your number one priority is going to be your mental health your family's Mental Health and physical health. Unless you're not wearing a mask now it won't change much in your life but since there is a real chance of turning this around the last thing I want people to think is that it's hopeless and that 99% of cases are harmless so we shouldn't wear masks which has been a prominent sentiment among the hardest hit areas
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
At the beginning of the pandemic I thought there is nothing anyone could do to even mitigate the virus but also from the very beginning I knew wearing a mask was important.

When this all began I believe most people were scared enough to wear the masks until the charts flattened. Then when we got to a place where we could start Phase 1 there began debates about wearing the masks and going through the proper phases to reopen and it's very clear where that got us. If we can get to a point where we can convince nearly all Americans to wear a mask it won't ever be "normal" again but it'd allow us to adapt, still run businesses , not overrun hospitals and funeral homes and not be so fucking terrified that a moron that thinks it's their right not to wear a mask is going kill your family members by you being asymptomatic.




You know I was going to respond to this by saying I hate how politically divided everyone has become over the masks, but then I remembered that this is election season (easy to forget that sometimes). If it wasn't the masks, it was probably going to be something else getting everyone all riled up and divided.

Normally I would agree with you but the mask issue and debate is completely unwarranted and there's mountains of proof that effectively the lack of Nationwide coordination has killed many more people than necessary. For example if it were just the gorge Floyd case Republicans could still save face if they had handled the pandemic with seriousness. Before Trump encouraged states to reopen whether it was safe or not,encouraging antimask protests, threatened schools that didn't reopen unsafe with the lack of funding that goes to special-needs kids overwhelmingly. I started to consider and ultimately will vote for biden.

This time it wasn't because I disagreed on immigration or abortion but that I've seen giving them devastation from the president's actions in this particular pandemic response. So yes people still would have found something to get him on but his supporter base would write it off as normal Democrat Behavior and fake news. People actually suffering in notoriously red states are overwhelmingly seeing the lack of help, response and acknowledgement of their suffering. This is a life-and-death issue and an issue of recovering the economy and pulling people out of unemployment and worries that they can't pay the bills. So I deeply hope that people take this more seriously than ever before and it seems like voters that were Die Hard Trump fans are on the fence now after seeing so much destruction and encouragement to do these irresponsible things that has led us here

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
So I know there's things we could do tomorrow nationwide that'd dramatically reduce our suffering



Oh, absolutely. The problem at this point seems to be finding common ground among the working class and finding a platform big enough to voice our suggestions.



I couldn't agree more the working class Trump voters in particular have have been forced into a false dichotomy of either being for Trump or for democrats,socialism and ruining America. Those are not the only options. There has been many projects to show Republicans stories about their political Journeys and why they do not vote for Trump this election, it really does give a bit of a voice to disenfranchise Republican voters that are lifelong Republicans and just hate with Trump is doing to the country.

I would like to point out this discussion began very hostile and buy me willing to examine my beliefs and you willing to examine your beliefs we actually found common ground and had a meaningful debate about these things. That's why I never give up hope trying to rationally talk to my fellow man


--------------------
R.I.P
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineviraldrome
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/21/18
Posts: 1,290
Last seen: 13 hours, 10 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26843706 - 07/25/20 12:19 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

There will probably be a vaccine and everything will go back to normal. Until the next virus. Imagine one as contagious as Covid and as deadly as SARS. The planet needs a pandemic to depopulate, unfortunatley with jet set travel lifestyles there is no such thing as a disease that only wipes out overpopulated areas.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26843726 - 07/25/20 12:43 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
ST: I can definitely understand what you're saying is that even through all of this shit your number one priority is going to be your mental health your family's Mental Health and physical health. Unless you're not wearing a mask now it won't change much in your life but since there is a real chance of turning this around the last thing I want people to think is that it's hopeless and that 99% of cases are harmless so we shouldn't wear masks which has been a prominent sentiment among the hardest hit areas




For sure. I noticed my mental health seriously declined these last couple of weeks, so I've been taking extra special care of myself recently and seem to be on the mend in that respect. Gotta take care of myself before I can help others.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Normally I would agree with you but the mask issue and debate is completely unwarranted and there's mountains of proof that effectively the lack of Nationwide coordination has killed many more people than necessary. For example if it were just the gorge Floyd case Republicans could still save face if they had handled the pandemic with seriousness. Before Trump encouraged states to reopen whether it was safe or not,encouraging antimask protests, threatened schools that didn't reopen unsafe with the lack of funding that goes to special-needs kids overwhelmingly. I started to consider and ultimately will vote for biden.




Yeah, this is the craziest election season I've lived through thus far. I will, reluctantly, vote for Biden (though he was definitely not my top choice pre-convention).

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I couldn't agree more the working class Trump voters in particular have have been forced into a false dichotomy of either being for Trump or for democrats,socialism and ruining America. Those are not the only options. There has been many projects to show Republicans stories about their political Journeys and why they do not vote for Trump this election, it really does give a bit of a voice to disenfranchise Republican voters that are lifelong Republicans and just hate with Trump is doing to the country.




I feel like socialism has become a catch-all term for anything left of "center" in America. Most of the people I've met who complain to me about socialism don't even know what it actually is. But yes, you're right that Trump voters have been placed in a dichotomy of sorts, much of that due to Trump's language choices. In his Fourth of July speech this year at Mt. Rushmore, he made a clear distinction between "Americans" and "protestors". You're either on Trump's side, or you're unAmerican, basically. Only a Sith speaks in absolutes...

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I would like to point out this discussion began very hostile and buy me willing to examine my beliefs and you willing to examine your beliefs we actually found common ground and had a meaningful debate about these things. That's why I never give up hope trying to rationally talk to my fellow man



Oh, I never felt any hostility from you, man. Hope you didn't feel any hostility from me, either. I sensed some disagreement, maybe, but never any hostility. I'm a firm believer in the educational power of civil debate. You can love someone and still disagree with them :smile:


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26843729 - 07/25/20 12:45 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Hindsight is obviously not worth a whole lot, but imo based on what's worked elsewhere, a 4-6 week complete shutdown except for absolute essentials like the food chain, utilities, medicine, emeregency services and such, with temporary universal basic income and essentially a freeze on the lending and rent economy, followed by a phased and gradual reopening, would have been the optimal scenario. Instead we half assed everything and essentially handed out new private islands and yacht fleets to the execs that fund our congress.



Exactly. If anything, I think the pandemic just underlined some of the extant issues we were already facing. It was just easier to ignore them before we had more pressing matters on our plates.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts] * 1
    #26843732 - 07/25/20 12:47 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:




Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.



Nice reference. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Man, this year has just been absolutely nuts: A pandemic, a struggling economy, massive protests, and on top of all that: it's an election year. I'm never going to forget 2020. Truth really is stranger than fiction.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepineninja
Dream Weaver
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/18/14
Posts: 11,799
Loc: South Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26843742 - 07/25/20 12:52 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
I know a lot of us have been waiting for the pandemic to end. A lot of us have been waiting for an announcement from some authority figure (anyone, really - whoever you look up to and put your trust into) that, though this has been hell, it's finally over.

I'm here to ask a question that's been on my mind lately: what if you instead were to suddenly have the revelation that it doesn't end? What if you suddenly knew that things will just continue to get worse? What if you suddenly knew that the mandated masks, the lock-ins, the unstable economy, the protests, all of the shit we've been going through as Americans is just the beginning? What if you now knew that we can never go back to a state that will remind us of what used to be "normal" before this all started?

Would this newfound knowledge change your behavior? Would it change your relationships? Would it change your philosophy? Would it change your values? If so, why? If not, why not?

I find these questions to be increasingly important because, at least for now, we don't know whether or not this is actually going to get better at some point. All things eventually pass, but maybe not in this lifetime. We have to start thinking about the possibility that things are going to get a lot worse for a long time, and to start thinking about what that means to us.

I don't mean to be a downer here. If anything, I hope that thinking about these questions might bring us to some newfound appreciation for life - not hope, necessarily, but just appreciation and mindfulness. Much love to you all. Hope you're doing okay, mentally.




First acceptance then grief.

You can brigthen your own life and those close to you even as the rest may dim.

So my light to you I appreciate your well wishes.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKOLOME

Registered: 06/22/20
Posts: 44
Last seen: 14 days, 22 hours
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: pineninja]
    #26843812 - 07/25/20 01:39 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

The media will not cease reporting on the dangers of the virus until after the election. If Trump wins reelection the virus will likely continue to be reported on. If Trump fails to win reelection the virus will likely disappear from the news headlines shortly after a "breakthrough" occurs thanks to the newly elected Democratic leadership in the White House.

If Trump wins reelection it is highly possible that WW3 between the US and China will break out (likely in the form of proxy wars (NK vs SK)) as the civil war here in America gets more militaristic. Then depending on the outcome of the proxy wars and Trump's success / failure combating the Deep State (i.e. the rich and their employees) America will either conquer the world or be conquered.

If Trump loses reelection we will have entered into the eye of the storm. All will seem calm. Things will appear to get better. Exponential use of surveillance and draconian mandates will become the "new normal". Discussion in any form of "unapproved" topics or opinions will result in either monetary fines (welfare cuts) or prison time. In this scenario the classic Dystopian world develops and the true revolutionaries of the New Age will rise up to overthrow the authoritarian world government. However, once the NWO is allowed to operate out of the shadows it will take decades if not centuries for rebel fighters across the globe to resist the state. It is highly possible a scenario develops where counter-culture personalities are forced to hideaway far from society - akin to the people of Zion in the Matrix - in order to avoid persecution.

However, if Trump does win reelection, we may be able to circumvent decades if not centuries of struggle against the establishment. It's a quick rip, versus a slow pull; if you will.

Despite the fact that Trump's team is going after the human trafficking Illuminati; it seems very possible that Trump is just another Mafia Don taking out his competition. Either way justice will be done. One way or the other.

TLDR: The pandemic will remain in America until the politics find equilibrium.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 81,788
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 minute, 27 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: KOLOME] * 5
    #26843831 - 07/25/20 01:59 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Man how do people get so delusional?


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 12,183
Loc: Utah
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 1
    #26843853 - 07/25/20 02:23 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineviraldrome
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/21/18
Posts: 1,290
Last seen: 13 hours, 10 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: KOLOME] * 6
    #26843855 - 07/25/20 02:24 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

KOLOME said:
The media will not cease reporting on the dangers of the virus until after the election. If Trump wins reelection the virus will likely continue to be reported on. If Trump fails to win reelection the virus will likely disappear from the news headlines shortly after a "breakthrough" occurs thanks to the newly elected Democratic leadership in the White House.

If Trump wins reelection it is highly possible that WW3 between the US and China will break out (likely in the form of proxy wars (NK vs SK)) as the civil war here in America gets more militaristic. Then depending on the outcome of the proxy wars and Trump's success / failure combating the Deep State (i.e. the rich and their employees) America will either conquer the world or be conquered.

If Trump loses reelection we will have entered into the eye of the storm. All will seem calm. Things will appear to get better. Exponential use of surveillance and draconian mandates will become the "new normal". Discussion in any form of "unapproved" topics or opinions will result in either monetary fines (welfare cuts) or prison time. In this scenario the classic Dystopian world develops and the true revolutionaries of the New Age will rise up to overthrow the authoritarian world government. However, once the NWO is allowed to operate out of the shadows it will take decades if not centuries for rebel fighters across the globe to resist the state. It is highly possible a scenario develops where counter-culture personalities are forced to hideaway far from society - akin to the people of Zion in the Matrix - in order to avoid persecution.

However, if Trump does win reelection, we may be able to circumvent decades if not centuries of struggle against the establishment. It's a quick rip, versus a slow pull; if you will.

Despite the fact that Trump's team is going after the human trafficking Illuminati; it seems very possible that Trump is just another Mafia Don taking out his competition. Either way justice will be done. One way or the other.

TLDR: The pandemic will remain in America until the politics find equilibrium.





No the entire world medical establishment, media, government, and independent scientists are not making this up to make Trump look bad. The media will report on covid until it ceases to be a problem, no one cares about your stupid fucking American election. The idea the whole world is on lockdown to make Trump look bad is next level retardation.

People like you are the problem, you vote, and spread disinformation online about fake wars on human trafficking you wish your halfwait leader was behind. The idea you have some special inside Q knowledge on the NWO makes me vomit in my mouth a little. Yes electing joe Biden will entail your freedumb being taken away we hear this every election, you idiots always line up to buy guns in fear, and you are always wrong. It never happens, the person deploying secret police now is Trump.The dems are going to focus the next 5 years on fixing the pandemic related problems Trump either created or made worse, doubt they will even have time to force your kids schools to install tranny washrooms. The illuminati isn't real, nor is the deep state stop believing nonsense


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 81,788
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 minute, 27 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: viraldrome] * 4
    #26843869 - 07/25/20 02:41 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

These people are starting to seriously impact this country’s ability to function properly.


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMightyWhite
Unfeigned Whiteness
Male User Gallery
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 5 hours, 27 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: koods] * 1
    #26843901 - 07/25/20 03:39 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
These people are starting to seriously impact this country’s ability to function properly.




LOL, says someone that thinks it's ok to riot and destroy property


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMightyWhite
Unfeigned Whiteness
Male User Gallery
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 5 hours, 27 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26843903 - 07/25/20 03:40 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.




I don't know, there's going to be a lot of people that don't trust the vaccine and won't take it


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepineninja
Dream Weaver
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/18/14
Posts: 11,799
Loc: South Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: MightyWhite]
    #26843930 - 07/25/20 04:31 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
These people are starting to seriously impact this country’s ability to function properly.



Quote:

MightyWhite said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.




I don't know, there's going to be a lot of people that don't trust the vaccine and won't take it




--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 81,788
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 minute, 27 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: pineninja]
    #26843947 - 07/25/20 05:05 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

It could take up to a year to manufacture enough doses for everyone


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
OTD GANG MEMBER
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 29,005
Loc: Coast 2 Coast Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: koods]
    #26843962 - 07/25/20 05:46 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

And poor people won't get the first doses either. Politicians, pro athletes, billionaires, medical staff, old people (they vote) will get like the first 75 million doses or so. That's about the first 9 months of a vaccine run.

And then way the fuck down the list. Is you and me. So sometime next year you might get a dose.



Luckily the rest of the world isn't trying to do the same "pray for a vaccine" strategy, only a couple of countries. But it isn't 350 million doses that are needed, it's like 5 or 6 billion and the global elite are going to take all the first doses.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 7,686
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 23 minutes, 21 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26843968 - 07/25/20 05:57 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.




A vaccine is going to be here. So are thirty other vaccines after that. If they knew the first one was going to work then everybody who invested in it would become a millionaire. The U.S. government is already pumping money into a bunch of these companies. Why? Because they have no idea what's going to work. They might work, or they might be kind of effective, like the flu shot, or they might not work at all.

The common cold is a corona virus. How's that vaccine working?


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 7,686
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 23 minutes, 21 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: MightyWhite]
    #26843971 - 07/25/20 06:01 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

MightyWhite said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.




I don't know, there's going to be a lot of people that don't trust the vaccine and won't take it




This is true and that's going to be a problem. At first, when they don't know if it's effective, those people won't look so dumb.

If they find an effective vaccine, society will have to figure what sanctions they are going to use against the anti-vaccine people.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemorrowasted
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 24,407
Last seen: 2 hours, 15 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26844138 - 07/25/20 09:44 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.




A vaccine is going to be here. So are thirty other vaccines after that. If they knew the first one was going to work then everybody who invested in it would become a millionaire. The U.S. government is already pumping money into a bunch of these companies. Why? Because they have no idea what's going to work. They might work, or they might be kind of effective, like the flu shot, or they might not work at all.

The common cold is a corona virus. How's that vaccine working?


they just never bothered to make one. They only have incentive to make vaccines for serious illnesses. They could have made vaccines for other coronaviruses though


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
your good friend <3
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 14,903
Loc: Pelican Bay SHU Program
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: morrowasted]
    #26844423 - 07/25/20 01:04 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

There’s been a lot of effort to find a vaccine for the common cold. There are just too many variations.

Where’s the HIV vaccine?


--------------------
Space is the Place


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 81,788
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 minute, 27 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26844444 - 07/25/20 01:20 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Has there? There’s really no demand for a vaccine for colds.

HIV produces long lasting antibodies. They dont work.

There are coronavirus vaccines for animals


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


Edited by koods (07/25/20 01:21 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
your good friend <3
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 14,903
Loc: Pelican Bay SHU Program
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: koods]
    #26844547 - 07/25/20 02:15 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

There’s really no demand for a vaccine for colds.




Yes there is. A cold can kill an asthmatic with an immune deficiency.


--------------------
Space is the Place


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinespirit_shadow
Pareidolia
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 11,588
Last seen: 1 hour, 6 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26844581 - 07/25/20 02:37 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

@op, I will make friends with someone that owns/runs a ship and go to the uk to be with the woman I love. And if I cant make a friend with a ship owner then I will just take a ship and pick up a book or two on how to operate said ship on the way there.


--------------------
kaleidoscope eyes, watch as I dematerialize...(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


Edited by spirit_shadow (07/25/20 02:38 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: koods]
    #26844586 - 07/25/20 02:42 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Man how do people get so delusional?



4chan  :laugh2:


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: nooneman]
    #26844599 - 07/25/20 02:51 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.



I think you misread me, friend. I'm not trying to scare anyone. I tried to make it clear in my OP, but I'm doing my best to avoid a pessimistic position here. It's more just about reconsidering our values and asking what really matters in a world where things might (not will) get worse. I'm not saying things are going to get worse, but I am saying that we should start thinking about what that would mean for us if they did.

Also, the idea that things will just be over in a couple of months because of a vaccine is oversimplifying, IMO. First of all, we have a whole swath of people who will refuse to get vaccinated, so that's already a problem. Second of all, I think the pandemic has underlined a lot of the issues we were dealing with in America: reliance on foreign manufacture / resources, lack of affordable healthcare, lack of affordable housing, police brutality, massive economic disparity, lack of education (anti-intellectualism), climate change, and more. The pandemic has forced us to face the music on many of these issues, and I don't think they're all going to dissolve just because a vaccine becomes available. Again, not trying to fear-monger. I believe we can solve these problems as a species, but it's up to us and nobody else, really. If we don't do anything about them, things might continue to get worse.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OnlineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 4,209
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 8 minutes, 32 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #26844636 - 07/25/20 03:14 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:

Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.




You expect someday soon people in government will say the pandemic is over? That's as much of a silly conspiracy theory as the speculation armed troops will be needed to remove Trump from office if he loses the election. Are people using Tarot cards and Ouija boards to predict the future?! 
 
It appears many in government will support lockdowns and school closures for a long long time, considering the amount of fear they are expressing. The fear is rising, as many whip themselves into a panic.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemorrowasted
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 24,407
Last seen: 2 hours, 15 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26844930 - 07/25/20 06:55 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

There’s really no demand for a vaccine for colds.




Yes there is. A cold can kill an asthmatic with an immune deficiency.


not sufficient demand.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
OTD GANG MEMBER
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 29,005
Loc: Coast 2 Coast Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26844948 - 07/25/20 07:07 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:

Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.




You expect someday soon people in government will say the pandemic is over? That's as much of a silly conspiracy theory as the speculation armed troops will be needed to remove Trump from office if he loses the election. Are people using Tarot cards and Ouija boards to predict the future?! 
 
It appears many in government will support lockdowns and school closures for a long long time, considering the amount of fear they are expressing. The fear is rising, as many whip themselves into a panic.





Yeah. Papa Trump will come out somewhere with a banner. Maybe infront of disneyland or someshit and say "Covid is over" and people will say :macdre: and the republicans will be like :goodluckwiththat: and won't back him after labour day and Jesse Ventura will win the presidency. It will be the perfect end to 2020; the wildest year this decade.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
your good friend <3
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 14,903
Loc: Pelican Bay SHU Program
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: morrowasted]
    #26844949 - 07/25/20 07:07 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

I don’t give a fuck if you’re a nurse or not if the common cold could be eliminated that would be huge and people have been studying and experimenting for ideas to create a universal cold vaccine for decades and have only managed to fail


--------------------
Space is the Place


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
OTD GANG MEMBER
Other User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 29,005
Loc: Coast 2 Coast Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26844982 - 07/25/20 07:44 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

That is too short sighted. Why not make a cure for death?



And why then, not make a cure for life?



--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male


Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 6,664
Last seen: 5 hours, 52 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26845091 - 07/25/20 09:25 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
I feel like socialism has become a catch-all term for anything left of "center" in America.






I disagree.  There are plenty of normal liberals but they’re being drowned out and bullied by the left.  But what we used to call the left has moved so far left that they now think everybody else is the ones that have moved when most of us have stayed positionary.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

Most of the people I've met who complain to me about socialism don't even know what it actually is.


It’s a misleading word that puts a soft touch on communism. 

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

But yes, you're right that Trump voters have been placed in a dichotomy of sorts,


only according to the left.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

much of that due to Trump's language choices. In his Fourth of July speech this year at Mt. Rushmore, he made a clear distinction between "Americans" and "protestors".




I don’t remember that part, but if he did, good.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

You're either on Trump's side, or you're unAmerican,


I don’t remember that part.

Do you have a quote or something?

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:


basically. Only a Sith speaks in absolutes...


Besides the innacuracy of this statement, calling trump a space nazi just muddied the waters.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: lowbrow]
    #26847590 - 07/27/20 12:28 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
I disagree.  There are plenty of normal liberals but they’re being drowned out and bullied by the left.  But what we used to call the left has moved so far left that they now think everybody else is the ones that have moved when most of us have stayed positionary.




I'm really curious to see what your definition of a "normal liberal" is and how it differs from your definition of "the left". I'm guessing you mean a "left centrist", but I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Furthermore, I'm curious about this alleged bullying and what you think that is. It's kind of hard for me to realize the picture you're painting without some examples.

I, for one, have moved further to the left over the past few years, but I'd hardly call myself a bully. I can always respect someone else's position and I'm always willing to engage in civil debate (as I am with you - and we've definitely disagreed before). As a representative of the left, I'm not a bully and I am not trying to drown anyone out. I believe that change starts with the ideas generated from civil debate, and I know many other leftists who feel the same way.

Again, I'm just curious to see what you think it means to be a "normal liberal" and what you think it means to be a "leftist", and I'm also curious to see what you think this bullying and drowning out is with clear examples, because I think the pictures that we have of what's going on in America politically are very different, and we aren't ever going to have an accurate discussion if we aren't using the same terminology.

Quote:

lowbrow said:
It’s a misleading word that puts a soft touch on communism.




That's a massive oversimplification about what socialism is. First of all, there are many different flavors of socialism (as there are with any broad political theory), so you're always going to lose information without specifying a certain context.

Second, if you look into the etymology of the word "socialism", you'll find that the word came into use by political theorists who were trying to distance themselves from communism. When socialism first emerged as a distinct political theory from communism, it clearly stated that socialism was about socializing the production of goods, while communism is about socializing the production and consumption of goods. This is not an insignificant difference, and describing socialism as "communism with a soft touch" is oversimplifying matters. Historically, socialists were highly critical of communists. Just because both theories involve socializing the production of goods does not mean that one is a "softer" version of the other.

Third of all, how is socialism a "misleading" term? If anything, socialism is one of the most clearly defined political theories I've ever discovered. It has a rich history, a clear etymology, it's been clearly defined by theorists both old and new, and we have many examples of contemporary socialist policies across the globe. Just as an example, compare socialism with populism. Populism as a political theory is a total clusterfuck. Political theorists have disagreed with one another about what populism is ever since the term entered academia. It's used so broadly that it can apply to either the left or right side of the political spectrum. I'd say that "populism" is a much more misleading term when compared to "socialism". When academics debate about socialism, it's usually about the particular policy details that ought to be enacted to ensure the socialized production of goods (this is why you get different "flavors" of socialism such as Liberal Socialism or Ricardian Socialism). When academics debate about populism, it's usually about how the term ought to be defined in the first place and where it applies in the real world.

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
much of that due to Trump's language choices. In his Fourth of July speech this year at Mt. Rushmore, he made a clear distinction between "Americans" and "protestors".




I don’t remember that part, but if he did, good.




No, I don't really think that's "good". I've been to some of these protests, and I'm as American as it gets. I love my country, and I love so many of the people who live here. I'm protesting because I think it's the best way for marginalized voices to be heard (and, indeed, we are being heard - the press has been covering our protests). The fact that Trump is basically saying that I'm not an American because I'm standing up with the oppressed and exercising my right to assemble definitely rubs me the wrong way.

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Do you have a quote or something?




Yes:

Quote:


Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.




Here's my source: a full transcript of the speech.
That's a pretty clear indication that he's drawing a dividing line between protestors and "the American people". Furthermore, the protestors "think the American people are weak and soft and submissive". You're either an American, or you're one of "them". It's black and white thinking - again, it's an absolute. Furthermore, he's pushing forward the idea that this is a battle, that it's "us" (the American people) versus "them" (the protestors) when he says "the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country... to be taken from them". I think his message is quite clear here.

I'm not comfortable with our president telling a massive group of loyal supporters that people like me are trying to take the country away from them. That's such a misrepresentation of our position, and it only serves to deepen the divide rather than to unify us.

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Besides the innacuracy of this statement, calling trump a space nazi just muddied the waters.



Omg, I'm not actually calling Trump a Sith. Jesus Christ, man, Siths are a fictional organization from Star Wars. In the context of the film, "Only a Sith speaks in absolutes" is offered as a response to Anakin's claim that "if you're not with me, you're against me". I thought it was similar to some of Trump's language during the speech - he's clearly telling the American people not to be fence-riders on this issue. The speech suggests that the protestors (who, by the way, aren't lumped in with the rest of us "Americans") are trying to take away our country now, and that we, the Americans, need to be against them. so I offered the quote from the film because Star Wars is so popular that I thought people would see the similarity. I'm not literally calling Trump a "space nazi", ffs.

Besides, Trump isn't even cool enough to be a "Space Nazi". Trump is a fat reality television show star who started a pyramid scheme called "Trump University". He's a scummy businessman, he speaks at about a fifth grade reading level, and he's xenophobic. He openly mocks disabled people (seriously, who the fuck does that?). He has openly bragged about sexually assaulting women (I thought conservatives were all about family values?). He's not a space nazi, he's a total embarrassment. I don't understand how anyone could support this guy, but then I remember that we live in a country that dumps all the money that should go towards education into our military.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepirate-bluesS
Female


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,129
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26847730 - 07/27/20 01:35 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Quote:

ichugwindex said:
I have the very unpopular while simultaneously popular idea that If something this minor can kill you that YOU should be the one staying home. Unless of course you want to give out the monthly check to make the rest of us stay home. We will starve trying to save you otherwise. Seems pretty unfair currently.




So far it seems pretty hard to predict who will get hit hard by it. Obviously the old, overweight and sick fair the worst statistically but that's also the bulk of our population. 40% of the US is obese, ~70% are overweight, tens of millions have one or more pre-existing conditions, 50 million are over age 65. So who gets to pick and choose who gets to stay home, and how are they going to afford to live and stimulate the economy while they do so?

Hindsight is obviously not worth a whole lot, but imo based on what's worked elsewhere, a 4-6 week complete shutdown except for absolute essentials like the food chain, utilities, medicine, emeregency services and such, with temporary universal basic income and essentially a freeze on the lending and rent economy, followed by a phased and gradual reopening, would have been the optimal scenario. Instead we half assed everything and essentially handed out new private islands and yacht fleets to the execs that fund our congress.







Yeah, a newborn just died from coronavirus in my state. Not even a full month old. Terrible.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/lauderhill-family-loses-two-children-to-covid-19-days-apart/2260990/


I was also recently struck by another story about a mother who lost her two young, adult, children - both around 20. Obviously heartbreaking and devestating, but another case of young healthy people who were very clearly not so healthy(in this case morbidly obese). Is it any less tragic? No, these people didn't deserve to die, this mother didn't deserve to lose both her kids. But in a country like America where one in 2(pulled that out of my ass) has a pre-existing condition of some kind when you account for obesity and high blood pressure...idk, seems like a coronavirus feeding frenzy.




I agree that you can't just shut things down and not try and support people though. Especially in a country that has the resources to do it. And I agree that it's an issue when people are making more on unemployment than at an actual job - but the answer to that is not take away unemployment - greedy dumb fucks. Give the people who are keeping this country fed, semi-operational, and sanitary bonuses and healthcare(I mean..give everyone healthcare, but for real, the people in this country have been fucked over for too long and time is ripe for change). We really just don't have a choice at this point - we can shut down a solid third of the economy and support the lower and middle classes, protect them from undue financial hardship or coronavirus will shut everything down for us - and it'll be harder and more ugly.

No evictions, mortgage forgiveness, indefinite unemployment, sizeable raise and guaranteed healthcare(none of this 5000 dollar deductible i have health insurance but can't even afford to use it bullshit). Small business loans to actual small businesses, not fucking Yeezy and the Church of Scientology. This is a huge complex disaster of unprecedented scale, and I don't think there exists any person or country on earth that could lead a totally mistake free response(especially in a country like the US), but goddamn, so many aspects of our response to this have been staggeringly incompetent and flat out corrupt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/business/coronavirus-bailouts-buybacks-cash.html


--------------------
:heart:



:sporedrop:





Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 81,788
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 minute, 27 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26847887 - 07/27/20 02:59 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

My friend is a doctor and he helped deliver a premie baby to a covid positive mother and a week later the mother was dying, riddled with blood clots.


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepirate-bluesS
Female


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,129
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: koods] * 1
    #26847901 - 07/27/20 03:09 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

That's awful. The amount of ptsd among medical workers is gonna be paramount to soldiers in world war I...world's gonna need mushrooms more than ever after all this.

One of my friends is a pediatric rn and has heard through the grapevine that there's been a significant rise in miscarriages in general too this year. That's purely anecdotal but the amount of damage and harm this is really doing is probably mind boggling. I don't think the true costs will be calculable for years. The ongoing health issues amongst the people who 'recover', the altered courses of children's(and their parents) lives with the schools having to remain shut longer than they would have if this had been handled differently....just everything. This is just gonna fuck everything about our life up from head to toe, no one is coming out of this unscathed at this point. :nonono:


--------------------
:heart:



:sporedrop:





Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEnjoywho
Rags to Bitches
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,841
Last seen: 6 days, 19 hours
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26848397 - 07/27/20 07:17 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.



I think you misread me, friend. I'm not trying to scare anyone. I tried to make it clear in my OP, but I'm doing my best to avoid a pessimistic position here. It's more just about reconsidering our values and asking what really matters in a world where things might (not will) get worse. I'm not saying things are going to get worse, but I am saying that we should start thinking about what that would mean for us if they did.

Also, the idea that things will just be over in a couple of months because of a vaccine is oversimplifying, IMO. First of all, we have a whole swath of people who will refuse to get vaccinated, so that's already a problem. Second of all, I think the pandemic has underlined a lot of the issues we were dealing with in America: reliance on foreign manufacture / resources, lack of affordable healthcare, lack of affordable housing, police brutality, massive economic disparity, lack of education (anti-intellectualism), climate change, and more. The pandemic has forced us to face the music on many of these issues, and I don't think they're all going to dissolve just because a vaccine becomes available. Again, not trying to fear-monger. I believe we can solve these problems as a species, but it's up to us and nobody else, really. If we don't do anything about them, things might continue to get worse.




Of course we rely on foreign manufacturing because all our wealthy took all the jobs to bumfuckistan and pay them pennies rather then paying people a decent wage. Because they have dicks for faces.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDoc9151M
Mycologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 12,206
Loc: Gulf Coast USA Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Enjoywho]
    #26848763 - 07/27/20 10:28 PM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.


--------------------
Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (07/27/20 10:28 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Doc9151]
    #26848908 - 07/27/20 11:58 PM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.



Yeah, I'm bracing myself for that sort of situation. However, given the light that's been shined on the issues we're dealing with during this whole fiasco, I'm not so sure I want to go back to the status quo.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemorrowasted
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 24,407
Last seen: 2 hours, 15 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26849065 - 07/28/20 02:01 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.



last I checked, viruses don't care who the president is. don't get me wrong, I'd love it if this were true, since my working in the ER has been hell these last few months. it isn't though. who do you imagine is making money on this fiasco? 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepineninja
Dream Weaver
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/18/14
Posts: 11,799
Loc: South Flag
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26849272 - 07/28/20 07:19 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.




Yep the rest of the world is holding their collective breath for your election.
We cant wait for this to be over.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineIce9
Benzo Enthusiast
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 3,256
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 39 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: pineninja]
    #26849356 - 07/28/20 09:18 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Just a reminder, deaths from Covid-19 are a lagging indicator... As you can see in the graph presented above, cases went up, then 2 or 3 weeks later deaths went up.  We know how to more effectively treat, so I wouldn't expect death trendline to 100% mirror cases trend line, but it won't be great, I'll tell you that.





Looks like Texas's lagging indicator is begging to arrive :sad: This doesn't make me happy or gloat, I'm NE but I'm still a fucking United Statesian.  Sending what PPE I can get my hands on to charities there and Florida and Arizona, good luck guys the worst is ahead.  I can't stress enough, mask up, social distance, and wash your damn hands, especially after touching frequently handled objects.  :eatadick: just some levity after a serious post, nothing meant by it.


--------------------
Regarding Benzodiaepines: "They are a recreational drug, and being one doesn't exclude it's potential as a medicine." Yukon Cornelius


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefeevers
Wanderer
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 3,947
Last seen: 28 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ice9]
    #26849371 - 07/28/20 09:29 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

675 deaths in TX yesterday is awful. Obviously the monday number is high and the new reporting is probably still being worked out, but that's just about NY at its peak numbers. NY was already well into a lockdown at that point... texas is weeks behind where NY was at. Hopefully the lesser population density buffers the pathetic governmental response delay, it's going to be really bad for at least another month regardless, probably longer because the government there appears to be lost at sea.


Quote:

Public health experts have said for months that the state’s official death toll is an undercount. State health officials said Monday that the policy change would improve the accuracy and timeliness of their data.

Texas law requires death certificates to be filed within 10 days.

“This method does not include deaths of people who had COVID-19 but died of an unrelated cause,” the Texas Department of State Health Services said in a news release.




https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/27/texas-coronavirus-deaths/


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefeevers
Wanderer
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 3,947
Last seen: 28 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26849374 - 07/28/20 09:31 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Why won't these people stop being so political and dying just to make trump look bad

:rolleyes:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineIce9
Benzo Enthusiast
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 3,256
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 39 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26849382 - 07/28/20 09:35 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Why won't these people stop being so political and dying just to make trump look bad

:rolleyes:



Yeah they really hate him, if it's a cause to die for from a terrible illness.  I mean that's conviction, the bible thumpers should take inspiration :nodofunderstanding:


--------------------
Regarding Benzodiaepines: "They are a recreational drug, and being one doesn't exclude it's potential as a medicine." Yukon Cornelius


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 6,664
Last seen: 5 hours, 52 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ice9]
    #26856785 - 08/01/20 09:42 AM (1 month, 17 days ago)

Let me restate my position in better terms.  Socialism is a nice way of saying ‘communism’ without actually using the word ‘communism’.

Quote:


Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.




Well I don’t see the problem with this speech.  He’s clearly talking about the rioters, but for some reason you’re conflating rioters with protesters.

Why is that?


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineIce9
Benzo Enthusiast
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 3,256
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 39 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26857381 - 08/01/20 04:48 PM (1 month, 17 days ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Let me restate my position in better terms.  Socialism is a nice way of saying ‘communism’ without actually using the word ‘communism’.

Quote:


Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.




Well I don’t see the problem with this speech.  He’s clearly talking about the rioters, but for some reason you’re conflating rioters with protesters.

Why is that?




Socialism already exists in the US, so uh, I guess I don't know what the first comment applies to.

As to the quote, thank you for interpreting those words, which while could be viewed as ambiguous, are only ambiguous to disingenuous, bad faith individuals, who attempt sophistry to climb out of the narrow hole the speaker has placed them. Please though, continue copying direct quotes, and interpret them in unique and disingenuous ways.  Maybe you could land a job as a white house press secretary... it's kind of a requirement.  Probably good benefits too.


--------------------
Regarding Benzodiaepines: "They are a recreational drug, and being one doesn't exclude it's potential as a medicine." Yukon Cornelius


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 378
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: lowbrow]
    #26857972 - 08/02/20 12:41 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Let me restate my position in better terms.  Socialism is a nice way of saying ‘communism’ without actually using the word ‘communism’.




You're going to have to explain a bit more than that. To my understanding, socialism is about socialized production of goods while communism is about socialized production of both production and consumption of goods. What does that mean to you? I ask because I think we're probably using different definitions here, because I would hardly say that socialism is just "a nice way of saying 'communism'". How could it be that we come to such different conclusions unless we were speaking from different definitions?

Quote:


Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.




Quote:

lowbrow said:
Well I don’t see the problem with this speech.  He’s clearly talking about the rioters, but for some reason you’re conflating rioters with protesters.

Why is that?



Whether we're talking about rioters or protestors, he's clearly making a distinction between "Americans" and "them". Are you going to agree with him and say that the rioters are not Americans? Even if someone commits a crime, that doesn't mean that they aren't American anymore, and it certainly doesn't mean that the crime was an attempt to "wipe out history", "defame our heroes", "erase our values", or "indoctrinate our children". It's an unfair misrepresentation of the rioter's position, and a rioter doesn't deserve to have his position misrepresented just because he's a rioter. The rhetoric Trump is using in that speech is obviously divisive and hostile. I also think it's funny that Trump, of all people, is talking about "erasing our values" when he has sexually assaulted women before (and openly bragged about it). Then again, maybe assaulting women is just an American value :shrug:

Also, I find it interesting that you're accusing me of conflating protestors with rioters. When another forum member have made a post about peaceful protestors (specifically not rioters - an example thread would be one about the wall of mothers in Portland - clearly not rioters), you were quick to point out that the rioters at that event burned down a government building. It seems to me that you're just as willing to conflate the rioters and protestors as I am (or, at least, label the peaceful protestors as 'guilty by association'), but you're only willing to do so when it conveniently supports your right wing narrative.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Edited by Nonagon Infinity (08/02/20 12:44 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 6,664
Last seen: 5 hours, 52 minutes
Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ice9]
    #26858033 - 08/02/20 01:49 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Donald Trump is clearly talking about the rioters.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Amazon Scales

Community >> The Pub

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Protestors at funerals....
( 1 2 3 all )
enderwood 3,597 52 05/10/06 12:20 AM
by Birds_Can_Swim
* global pandemic, 100s of millions may die
( 1 2 all )
Moonshoe 2,263 22 04/08/20 08:19 PM
by sh4d0ws
* The Most Hated Family In America
( 1 2 3 all )
SoY 3,556 54 06/11/07 01:54 AM
by JunkFood
* 'America Is Addicted to Oil' - Bush SourceLimit 938 18 02/02/06 08:58 PM
by Boom
* WHO: Bird Flu Pandemic could kill 7 million worldwide dr_gonz 696 9 11/29/04 10:20 PM
by Young_but_cool
* posibility of a bird flu pandemic rising out of the aftermath of the se asia tidal wave ZippoZM 598 2 12/29/04 06:26 PM
by ZippoZ
* New rainbow six game kills OWS protestors. love2shpongleIRL 532 7 11/17/11 02:06 PM
by love2shpongleIRL
* Pandemic thekwazz 448 7 09/06/08 10:14 PM
by thekwazz

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
708 topic views. 10 members, 74 guests and 27 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2020 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.183 seconds spending 0.014 seconds on 15 queries.