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Seriously_trippin said:
Well that sounds like a plausible but very dramatic interpretation. I know that pretty much the entirety of the rest of the world has gotten back to some degree of normality so I do know it's possible here.

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Seriously_trippin said:
At the beginning of the pandemic I thought there is nothing anyone could do to even mitigate the virus but also from the very beginning I knew wearing a mask was important.

When this all began I believe most people were scared enough to wear the masks until the charts flattened. Then when we got to a place where we could start Phase 1 there began debates about wearing the masks and going through the proper phases to reopen and it's very clear where that got us. If we can get to a point where we can convince nearly all Americans to wear a mask it won't ever be "normal" again but it'd allow us to adapt, still run businesses , not overrun hospitals and funeral homes and not be so fucking terrified that a moron that thinks it's their right not to wear a mask is going kill your family members by you being asymptomatic.

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Seriously_trippin said:
So I know there's things we could do tomorrow nationwide that'd dramatically reduce our suffering

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Ahab McBathsalts said:
Unemployment rate is 15%. Seems like at least 15% of people are doing it.

Hungry people don't roll over and die. They eat the rich.

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ichugwindex said:
I have the very unpopular while simultaneously popular idea that If something this minor can kill you that YOU should be the one staying home. Unless of course you want to give out the monthly check to make the rest of us stay home. We will starve trying to save you otherwise. Seems pretty unfair currently.

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Nonagon Infinity said:

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Seriously_trippin said:
Well that sounds like a plausible but very dramatic interpretation. I know that pretty much the entirety of the rest of the world has gotten back to some degree of normality so I do know it's possible here.

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Yeah, I'm not trying to be pessimistic or anything. Of course, it's also possible that we can recover from this and enter a newer, healthier way of life. I'm not expecting the worst to actually happen, just thinking about how it would affect my life if things did continue to go south.

ST: I can definitely understand what you're saying is that even through all of this shit your number one priority is going to be your mental health your family's Mental Health and physical health. Unless you're not wearing a mask now it won't change much in your life but since there is a real chance of turning this around the last thing I want people to think is that it's hopeless and that 99% of cases are harmless so we shouldn't wear masks which has been a prominent sentiment among the hardest hit areas

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Seriously_trippin said:
At the beginning of the pandemic I thought there is nothing anyone could do to even mitigate the virus but also from the very beginning I knew wearing a mask was important.

When this all began I believe most people were scared enough to wear the masks until the charts flattened. Then when we got to a place where we could start Phase 1 there began debates about wearing the masks and going through the proper phases to reopen and it's very clear where that got us. If we can get to a point where we can convince nearly all Americans to wear a mask it won't ever be "normal" again but it'd allow us to adapt, still run businesses , not overrun hospitals and funeral homes and not be so fucking terrified that a moron that thinks it's their right not to wear a mask is going kill your family members by you being asymptomatic.

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You know I was going to respond to this by saying I hate how politically divided everyone has become over the masks, but then I remembered that this is election season (easy to forget that sometimes). If it wasn't the masks, it was probably going to be something else getting everyone all riled up and divided.

Normally I would agree with you but the mask issue and debate is completely unwarranted and there's mountains of proof that effectively the lack of Nationwide coordination has killed many more people than necessary. For example if it were just the gorge Floyd case Republicans could still save face if they had handled the pandemic with seriousness. Before Trump encouraged states to reopen whether it was safe or not,encouraging antimask protests, threatened schools that didn't reopen unsafe with the lack of funding that goes to special-needs kids overwhelmingly. I started to consider and ultimately will vote for biden.

This time it wasn't because I disagreed on immigration or abortion but that I've seen giving them devastation from the president's actions in this particular pandemic response. So yes people still would have found something to get him on but his supporter base would write it off as normal Democrat Behavior and fake news. People actually suffering in notoriously red states are overwhelmingly seeing the lack of help, response and acknowledgement of their suffering. This is a life-and-death issue and an issue of recovering the economy and pulling people out of unemployment and worries that they can't pay the bills. So I deeply hope that people take this more seriously than ever before and it seems like voters that were Die Hard Trump fans are on the fence now after seeing so much destruction and encouragement to do these irresponsible things that has led us here

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Seriously_trippin said:
So I know there's things we could do tomorrow nationwide that'd dramatically reduce our suffering

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Oh, absolutely. The problem at this point seems to be finding common ground among the working class and finding a platform big enough to voice our suggestions.

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Seriously_trippin said:
ST: I can definitely understand what you're saying is that even through all of this shit your number one priority is going to be your mental health your family's Mental Health and physical health. Unless you're not wearing a mask now it won't change much in your life but since there is a real chance of turning this around the last thing I want people to think is that it's hopeless and that 99% of cases are harmless so we shouldn't wear masks which has been a prominent sentiment among the hardest hit areas

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Seriously_trippin said:
Normally I would agree with you but the mask issue and debate is completely unwarranted and there's mountains of proof that effectively the lack of Nationwide coordination has killed many more people than necessary. For example if it were just the gorge Floyd case Republicans could still save face if they had handled the pandemic with seriousness. Before Trump encouraged states to reopen whether it was safe or not,encouraging antimask protests, threatened schools that didn't reopen unsafe with the lack of funding that goes to special-needs kids overwhelmingly. I started to consider and ultimately will vote for biden.

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Seriously_trippin said:
I couldn't agree more the working class Trump voters in particular have have been forced into a false dichotomy of either being for Trump or for democrats,socialism and ruining America. Those are not the only options. There has been many projects to show Republicans stories about their political Journeys and why they do not vote for Trump this election, it really does give a bit of a voice to disenfranchise Republican voters that are lifelong Republicans and just hate with Trump is doing to the country.

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Seriously_trippin said:
I would like to point out this discussion began very hostile and buy me willing to examine my beliefs and you willing to examine your beliefs we actually found common ground and had a meaningful debate about these things. That's why I never give up hope trying to rationally talk to my fellow man

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Oh, I never felt any hostility from you, man. Hope you didn't feel any hostility from me, either. I sensed some disagreement, maybe, but never any hostility. I'm a firm believer in the educational power of civil debate. You can love someone and still disagree with them

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feevers said:
Hindsight is obviously not worth a whole lot, but imo based on what's worked elsewhere, a 4-6 week complete shutdown except for absolute essentials like the food chain, utilities, medicine, emeregency services and such, with temporary universal basic income and essentially a freeze on the lending and rent economy, followed by a phased and gradual reopening, would have been the optimal scenario. Instead we half assed everything and essentially handed out new private islands and yacht fleets to the execs that fund our congress.

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Ahab McBathsalts said:




Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.

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Nonagon Infinity said:
I know a lot of us have been waiting for the pandemic to end. A lot of us have been waiting for an announcement from some authority figure (anyone, really - whoever you look up to and put your trust into) that, though this has been hell, it's finally over.

I'm here to ask a question that's been on my mind lately: what if you instead were to suddenly have the revelation that it doesn't end? What if you suddenly knew that things will just continue to get worse? What if you suddenly knew that the mandated masks, the lock-ins, the unstable economy, the protests, all of the shit we've been going through as Americans is just the beginning? What if you now knew that we can never go back to a state that will remind us of what used to be "normal" before this all started?

Would this newfound knowledge change your behavior? Would it change your relationships? Would it change your philosophy? Would it change your values? If so, why? If not, why not?

I find these questions to be increasingly important because, at least for now, we don't know whether or not this is actually going to get better at some point. All things eventually pass, but maybe not in this lifetime. We have to start thinking about the possibility that things are going to get a lot worse for a long time, and to start thinking about what that means to us.

I don't mean to be a downer here. If anything, I hope that thinking about these questions might bring us to some newfound appreciation for life - not hope, necessarily, but just appreciation and mindfulness. Much love to you all. Hope you're doing okay, mentally.

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KOLOME said:
The media will not cease reporting on the dangers of the virus until after the election. If Trump wins reelection the virus will likely continue to be reported on. If Trump fails to win reelection the virus will likely disappear from the news headlines shortly after a "breakthrough" occurs thanks to the newly elected Democratic leadership in the White House.

If Trump wins reelection it is highly possible that WW3 between the US and China will break out (likely in the form of proxy wars (NK vs SK)) as the civil war here in America gets more militaristic. Then depending on the outcome of the proxy wars and Trump's success / failure combating the Deep State (i.e. the rich and their employees) America will either conquer the world or be conquered.

If Trump loses reelection we will have entered into the eye of the storm. All will seem calm. Things will appear to get better. Exponential use of surveillance and draconian mandates will become the "new normal". Discussion in any form of "unapproved" topics or opinions will result in either monetary fines (welfare cuts) or prison time. In this scenario the classic Dystopian world develops and the true revolutionaries of the New Age will rise up to overthrow the authoritarian world government. However, once the NWO is allowed to operate out of the shadows it will take decades if not centuries for rebel fighters across the globe to resist the state. It is highly possible a scenario develops where counter-culture personalities are forced to hideaway far from society - akin to the people of Zion in the Matrix - in order to avoid persecution.

However, if Trump does win reelection, we may be able to circumvent decades if not centuries of struggle against the establishment. It's a quick rip, versus a slow pull; if you will.

Despite the fact that Trump's team is going after the human trafficking Illuminati; it seems very possible that Trump is just another Mafia Don taking out his competition. Either way justice will be done. One way or the other.

TLDR: The pandemic will remain in America until the politics find equilibrium.

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koods said:
These people are starting to seriously impact this country’s ability to function properly.

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nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.

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koods said:
These people are starting to seriously impact this country’s ability to function properly.

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MightyWhite said:

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nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.

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I don't know, there's going to be a lot of people that don't trust the vaccine and won't take it

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nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.

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MightyWhite said:

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nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.

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I don't know, there's going to be a lot of people that don't trust the vaccine and won't take it

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Brian Jones said:

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nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.

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A vaccine is going to be here. So are thirty other vaccines after that. If they knew the first one was going to work then everybody who invested in it would become a millionaire. The U.S. government is already pumping money into a bunch of these companies. Why? Because they have no idea what's going to work. They might work, or they might be kind of effective, like the flu shot, or they might not work at all.

The common cold is a corona virus. How's that vaccine working?

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There’s really no demand for a vaccine for colds.

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koods said:
Man how do people get so delusional?

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4chan 

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nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.

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Ahab McBathsalts said:

Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.

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TheFakeSunRa said:

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There’s really no demand for a vaccine for colds.

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Yes there is. A cold can kill an asthmatic with an immune deficiency.

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RJ Tubs 202 said:

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Ahab McBathsalts said:

Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.

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You expect someday soon people in government will say the pandemic is over? That's as much of a silly conspiracy theory as the speculation armed troops will be needed to remove Trump from office if he loses the election. Are people using Tarot cards and Ouija boards to predict the future?! 
 
It appears many in government will support lockdowns and school closures for a long long time, considering the amount of fear they are expressing. The fear is rising, as many whip themselves into a panic.

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Yeah. Papa Trump will come out somewhere with a banner. Maybe infront of disneyland or someshit and say "Covid is over" and people will say and the republicans will be like and won't back him after labour day and Jesse Ventura will win the presidency. It will be the perfect end to 2020; the wildest year this decade.

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Nonagon Infinity said:
I feel like socialism has become a catch-all term for anything left of "center" in America.

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Nonagon Infinity said:

Most of the people I've met who complain to me about socialism don't even know what it actually is.

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Nonagon Infinity said:

But yes, you're right that Trump voters have been placed in a dichotomy of sorts,

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Nonagon Infinity said:

much of that due to Trump's language choices. In his Fourth of July speech this year at Mt. Rushmore, he made a clear distinction between "Americans" and "protestors".

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Nonagon Infinity said:

You're either on Trump's side, or you're unAmerican,

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Nonagon Infinity said:


basically. Only a Sith speaks in absolutes...

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lowbrow said:
I disagree.  There are plenty of normal liberals but they’re being drowned out and bullied by the left.  But what we used to call the left has moved so far left that they now think everybody else is the ones that have moved when most of us have stayed positionary.

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lowbrow said:
It’s a misleading word that puts a soft touch on communism.

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lowbrow said:

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Nonagon Infinity said:
much of that due to Trump's language choices. In his Fourth of July speech this year at Mt. Rushmore, he made a clear distinction between "Americans" and "protestors".

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I don’t remember that part, but if he did, good.

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feevers said:

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ichugwindex said:
I have the very unpopular while simultaneously popular idea that If something this minor can kill you that YOU should be the one staying home. Unless of course you want to give out the monthly check to make the rest of us stay home. We will starve trying to save you otherwise. Seems pretty unfair currently.

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So far it seems pretty hard to predict who will get hit hard by it. Obviously the old, overweight and sick fair the worst statistically but that's also the bulk of our population. 40% of the US is obese, ~70% are overweight, tens of millions have one or more pre-existing conditions, 50 million are over age 65. So who gets to pick and choose who gets to stay home, and how are they going to afford to live and stimulate the economy while they do so?

Hindsight is obviously not worth a whole lot, but imo based on what's worked elsewhere, a 4-6 week complete shutdown except for absolute essentials like the food chain, utilities, medicine, emeregency services and such, with temporary universal basic income and essentially a freeze on the lending and rent economy, followed by a phased and gradual reopening, would have been the optimal scenario. Instead we half assed everything and essentially handed out new private islands and yacht fleets to the execs that fund our congress.

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Nonagon Infinity said:

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nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.

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I think you misread me, friend. I'm not trying to scare anyone. I tried to make it clear in my OP, but I'm doing my best to avoid a pessimistic position here. It's more just about reconsidering our values and asking what really matters in a world where things might (not will) get worse. I'm not saying things are going to get worse, but I am saying that we should start thinking about what that would mean for us if they did.

Also, the idea that things will just be over in a couple of months because of a vaccine is oversimplifying, IMO. First of all, we have a whole swath of people who will refuse to get vaccinated, so that's already a problem. Second of all, I think the pandemic has underlined a lot of the issues we were dealing with in America: reliance on foreign manufacture / resources, lack of affordable healthcare, lack of affordable housing, police brutality, massive economic disparity, lack of education (anti-intellectualism), climate change, and more. The pandemic has forced us to face the music on many of these issues, and I don't think they're all going to dissolve just because a vaccine becomes available. Again, not trying to fear-monger. I believe we can solve these problems as a species, but it's up to us and nobody else, really. If we don't do anything about them, things might continue to get worse.

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Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.

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Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.

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Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.

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Ice9 said:
Just a reminder, deaths from Covid-19 are a lagging indicator... As you can see in the graph presented above, cases went up, then 2 or 3 weeks later deaths went up.  We know how to more effectively treat, so I wouldn't expect death trendline to 100% mirror cases trend line, but it won't be great, I'll tell you that.

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Looks like Texas's lagging indicator is begging to arrive This doesn't make me happy or gloat, I'm NE but I'm still a fucking United Statesian.  Sending what PPE I can get my hands on to charities there and Florida and Arizona, good luck guys the worst is ahead.  I can't stress enough, mask up, social distance, and wash your damn hands, especially after touching frequently handled objects.  just some levity after a serious post, nothing meant by it.

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Public health experts have said for months that the state’s official death toll is an undercount. State health officials said Monday that the policy change would improve the accuracy and timeliness of their data.

Texas law requires death certificates to be filed within 10 days.

“This method does not include deaths of people who had COVID-19 but died of an unrelated cause,” the Texas Department of State Health Services said in a news release.

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feevers said:
Why won't these people stop being so political and dying just to make trump look bad

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Yeah they really hate him, if it's a cause to die for from a terrible illness.  I mean that's conviction, the bible thumpers should take inspiration

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Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.

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lowbrow said:
Let me restate my position in better terms.  Socialism is a nice way of saying ‘communism’ without actually using the word ‘communism’.

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Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.

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Well I don’t see the problem with this speech.  He’s clearly talking about the rioters, but for some reason you’re conflating rioters with protesters.

Why is that?

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lowbrow said:
Let me restate my position in better terms.  Socialism is a nice way of saying ‘communism’ without actually using the word ‘communism’.

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Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.

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lowbrow said:
Well I don’t see the problem with this speech.  He’s clearly talking about the rioters, but for some reason you’re conflating rioters with protesters.

Why is that?

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Whether we're talking about rioters or protestors, he's clearly making a distinction between "Americans" and "them". Are you going to agree with him and say that the rioters are not Americans? Even if someone commits a crime, that doesn't mean that they aren't American anymore, and it certainly doesn't mean that the crime was an attempt to "wipe out history", "defame our heroes", "erase our values", or "indoctrinate our children". It's an unfair misrepresentation of the rioter's position, and a rioter doesn't deserve to have his position misrepresented just because he's a rioter. The rhetoric Trump is using in that speech is obviously divisive and hostile. I also think it's funny that Trump, of all people, is talking about "erasing our values" when he has sexually assaulted women before (and openly bragged about it). Then again, maybe assaulting women is just an American value

Also, I find it interesting that you're accusing me of conflating protestors with rioters. When another forum member have made a post about peaceful protestors (specifically not rioters - an example thread would be one about the wall of mothers in Portland - clearly not rioters), you were quick to point out that the rioters at that event burned down a government building. It seems to me that you're just as willing to conflate the rioters and protestors as I am (or, at least, label the peaceful protestors as 'guilty by association'), but you're only willing to do so when it conveniently supports your right wing narrative.