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Onlinemorrowasted
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26844930 - 07/25/20 04:55 PM (9 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

There’s really no demand for a vaccine for colds.




Yes there is. A cold can kill an asthmatic with an immune deficiency.


not sufficient demand.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26844948 - 07/25/20 05:07 PM (9 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:

Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.




You expect someday soon people in government will say the pandemic is over? That's as much of a silly conspiracy theory as the speculation armed troops will be needed to remove Trump from office if he loses the election. Are people using Tarot cards and Ouija boards to predict the future?! 
 
It appears many in government will support lockdowns and school closures for a long long time, considering the amount of fear they are expressing. The fear is rising, as many whip themselves into a panic.





Yeah. Papa Trump will come out somewhere with a banner. Maybe infront of disneyland or someshit and say "Covid is over" and people will say :macdre: and the republicans will be like :goodluckwiththat: and won't back him after labour day and Jesse Ventura will win the presidency. It will be the perfect end to 2020; the wildest year this decade.


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"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: morrowasted]
    #26844949 - 07/25/20 05:07 PM (9 days, 3 hours ago)

I don’t give a fuck if you’re a nurse or not if the common cold could be eliminated that would be huge and people have been studying and experimenting for ideas to create a universal cold vaccine for decades and have only managed to fail


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26844982 - 07/25/20 05:44 PM (9 days, 3 hours ago)

That is too short sighted. Why not make a cure for death?



And why then, not make a cure for life?



--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26845091 - 07/25/20 07:25 PM (9 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
I feel like socialism has become a catch-all term for anything left of "center" in America.






I disagree.  There are plenty of normal liberals but they’re being drowned out and bullied by the left.  But what we used to call the left has moved so far left that they now think everybody else is the ones that have moved when most of us have stayed positionary.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

Most of the people I've met who complain to me about socialism don't even know what it actually is.


It’s a misleading word that puts a soft touch on communism. 

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

But yes, you're right that Trump voters have been placed in a dichotomy of sorts,


only according to the left.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

much of that due to Trump's language choices. In his Fourth of July speech this year at Mt. Rushmore, he made a clear distinction between "Americans" and "protestors".




I don’t remember that part, but if he did, good.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

You're either on Trump's side, or you're unAmerican,


I don’t remember that part.

Do you have a quote or something?

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:


basically. Only a Sith speaks in absolutes...


Besides the innacuracy of this statement, calling trump a space nazi just muddied the waters.


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[quote]Amanita86 said:
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OnlineNonagon Infinity
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: lowbrow]
    #26847590 - 07/27/20 10:28 AM (7 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
I disagree.  There are plenty of normal liberals but they’re being drowned out and bullied by the left.  But what we used to call the left has moved so far left that they now think everybody else is the ones that have moved when most of us have stayed positionary.




I'm really curious to see what your definition of a "normal liberal" is and how it differs from your definition of "the left". I'm guessing you mean a "left centrist", but I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Furthermore, I'm curious about this alleged bullying and what you think that is. It's kind of hard for me to realize the picture you're painting without some examples.

I, for one, have moved further to the left over the past few years, but I'd hardly call myself a bully. I can always respect someone else's position and I'm always willing to engage in civil debate (as I am with you - and we've definitely disagreed before). As a representative of the left, I'm not a bully and I am not trying to drown anyone out. I believe that change starts with the ideas generated from civil debate, and I know many other leftists who feel the same way.

Again, I'm just curious to see what you think it means to be a "normal liberal" and what you think it means to be a "leftist", and I'm also curious to see what you think this bullying and drowning out is with clear examples, because I think the pictures that we have of what's going on in America politically are very different, and we aren't ever going to have an accurate discussion if we aren't using the same terminology.

Quote:

lowbrow said:
It’s a misleading word that puts a soft touch on communism.




That's a massive oversimplification about what socialism is. First of all, there are many different flavors of socialism (as there are with any broad political theory), so you're always going to lose information without specifying a certain context.

Second, if you look into the etymology of the word "socialism", you'll find that the word came into use by political theorists who were trying to distance themselves from communism. When socialism first emerged as a distinct political theory from communism, it clearly stated that socialism was about socializing the production of goods, while communism is about socializing the production and consumption of goods. This is not an insignificant difference, and describing socialism as "communism with a soft touch" is oversimplifying matters. Historically, socialists were highly critical of communists. Just because both theories involve socializing the production of goods does not mean that one is a "softer" version of the other.

Third of all, how is socialism a "misleading" term? If anything, socialism is one of the most clearly defined political theories I've ever discovered. It has a rich history, a clear etymology, it's been clearly defined by theorists both old and new, and we have many examples of contemporary socialist policies across the globe. Just as an example, compare socialism with populism. Populism as a political theory is a total clusterfuck. Political theorists have disagreed with one another about what populism is ever since the term entered academia. It's used so broadly that it can apply to either the left or right side of the political spectrum. I'd say that "populism" is a much more misleading term when compared to "socialism". When academics debate about socialism, it's usually about the particular policy details that ought to be enacted to ensure the socialized production of goods (this is why you get different "flavors" of socialism such as Liberal Socialism or Ricardian Socialism). When academics debate about populism, it's usually about how the term ought to be defined in the first place and where it applies in the real world.

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
much of that due to Trump's language choices. In his Fourth of July speech this year at Mt. Rushmore, he made a clear distinction between "Americans" and "protestors".




I don’t remember that part, but if he did, good.




No, I don't really think that's "good". I've been to some of these protests, and I'm as American as it gets. I love my country, and I love so many of the people who live here. I'm protesting because I think it's the best way for marginalized voices to be heard (and, indeed, we are being heard - the press has been covering our protests). The fact that Trump is basically saying that I'm not an American because I'm standing up with the oppressed and exercising my right to assemble definitely rubs me the wrong way.

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Do you have a quote or something?




Yes:

Quote:


Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.




Here's my source: a full transcript of the speech.
That's a pretty clear indication that he's drawing a dividing line between protestors and "the American people". Furthermore, the protestors "think the American people are weak and soft and submissive". You're either an American, or you're one of "them". It's black and white thinking - again, it's an absolute. Furthermore, he's pushing forward the idea that this is a battle, that it's "us" (the American people) versus "them" (the protestors) when he says "the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country... to be taken from them". I think his message is quite clear here.

I'm not comfortable with our president telling a massive group of loyal supporters that people like me are trying to take the country away from them. That's such a misrepresentation of our position, and it only serves to deepen the divide rather than to unify us.

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Besides the innacuracy of this statement, calling trump a space nazi just muddied the waters.



Omg, I'm not actually calling Trump a Sith. Jesus Christ, man, Siths are a fictional organization from Star Wars. In the context of the film, "Only a Sith speaks in absolutes" is offered as a response to Anakin's claim that "if you're not with me, you're against me". I thought it was similar to some of Trump's language during the speech - he's clearly telling the American people not to be fence-riders on this issue. The speech suggests that the protestors (who, by the way, aren't lumped in with the rest of us "Americans") are trying to take away our country now, and that we, the Americans, need to be against them. so I offered the quote from the film because Star Wars is so popular that I thought people would see the similarity. I'm not literally calling Trump a "space nazi", ffs.

Besides, Trump isn't even cool enough to be a "Space Nazi". Trump is a fat reality television show star who started a pyramid scheme called "Trump University". He's a scummy businessman, he speaks at about a fifth grade reading level, and he's xenophobic. He openly mocks disabled people (seriously, who the fuck does that?). He has openly bragged about sexually assaulting women (I thought conservatives were all about family values?). He's not a space nazi, he's a total embarrassment. I don't understand how anyone could support this guy, but then I remember that we live in a country that dumps all the money that should go towards education into our military.


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26847730 - 07/27/20 11:35 AM (7 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Quote:

ichugwindex said:
I have the very unpopular while simultaneously popular idea that If something this minor can kill you that YOU should be the one staying home. Unless of course you want to give out the monthly check to make the rest of us stay home. We will starve trying to save you otherwise. Seems pretty unfair currently.




So far it seems pretty hard to predict who will get hit hard by it. Obviously the old, overweight and sick fair the worst statistically but that's also the bulk of our population. 40% of the US is obese, ~70% are overweight, tens of millions have one or more pre-existing conditions, 50 million are over age 65. So who gets to pick and choose who gets to stay home, and how are they going to afford to live and stimulate the economy while they do so?

Hindsight is obviously not worth a whole lot, but imo based on what's worked elsewhere, a 4-6 week complete shutdown except for absolute essentials like the food chain, utilities, medicine, emeregency services and such, with temporary universal basic income and essentially a freeze on the lending and rent economy, followed by a phased and gradual reopening, would have been the optimal scenario. Instead we half assed everything and essentially handed out new private islands and yacht fleets to the execs that fund our congress.







Yeah, a newborn just died from coronavirus in my state. Not even a full month old. Terrible.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/lauderhill-family-loses-two-children-to-covid-19-days-apart/2260990/


I was also recently struck by another story about a mother who lost her two young, adult, children - both around 20. Obviously heartbreaking and devestating, but another case of young healthy people who were very clearly not so healthy(in this case morbidly obese). Is it any less tragic? No, these people didn't deserve to die, this mother didn't deserve to lose both her kids. But in a country like America where one in 2(pulled that out of my ass) has a pre-existing condition of some kind when you account for obesity and high blood pressure...idk, seems like a coronavirus feeding frenzy.




I agree that you can't just shut things down and not try and support people though. Especially in a country that has the resources to do it. And I agree that it's an issue when people are making more on unemployment than at an actual job - but the answer to that is not take away unemployment - greedy dumb fucks. Give the people who are keeping this country fed, semi-operational, and sanitary bonuses and healthcare(I mean..give everyone healthcare, but for real, the people in this country have been fucked over for too long and time is ripe for change). We really just don't have a choice at this point - we can shut down a solid third of the economy and support the lower and middle classes, protect them from undue financial hardship or coronavirus will shut everything down for us - and it'll be harder and more ugly.

No evictions, mortgage forgiveness, indefinite unemployment, sizeable raise and guaranteed healthcare(none of this 5000 dollar deductible i have health insurance but can't even afford to use it bullshit). Small business loans to actual small businesses, not fucking Yeezy and the Church of Scientology. This is a huge complex disaster of unprecedented scale, and I don't think there exists any person or country on earth that could lead a totally mistake free response(especially in a country like the US), but goddamn, so many aspects of our response to this have been staggeringly incompetent and flat out corrupt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/business/coronavirus-bailouts-buybacks-cash.html


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:heart:



:sporedrop:





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Offlinekoods
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26847887 - 07/27/20 12:59 PM (7 days, 7 hours ago)

My friend is a doctor and he helped deliver a premie baby to a covid positive mother and a week later the mother was dying, riddled with blood clots.


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: koods] * 1
    #26847901 - 07/27/20 01:09 PM (7 days, 7 hours ago)

That's awful. The amount of ptsd among medical workers is gonna be paramount to soldiers in world war I...world's gonna need mushrooms more than ever after all this.

One of my friends is a pediatric rn and has heard through the grapevine that there's been a significant rise in miscarriages in general too this year. That's purely anecdotal but the amount of damage and harm this is really doing is probably mind boggling. I don't think the true costs will be calculable for years. The ongoing health issues amongst the people who 'recover', the altered courses of children's(and their parents) lives with the schools having to remain shut longer than they would have if this had been handled differently....just everything. This is just gonna fuck everything about our life up from head to toe, no one is coming out of this unscathed at this point. :nonono:


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:heart:



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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26848397 - 07/27/20 05:17 PM (7 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
Vaccine is almost here so this whole thing is gonna be over in a couple of months. Nice try with the fear mongering though.



I think you misread me, friend. I'm not trying to scare anyone. I tried to make it clear in my OP, but I'm doing my best to avoid a pessimistic position here. It's more just about reconsidering our values and asking what really matters in a world where things might (not will) get worse. I'm not saying things are going to get worse, but I am saying that we should start thinking about what that would mean for us if they did.

Also, the idea that things will just be over in a couple of months because of a vaccine is oversimplifying, IMO. First of all, we have a whole swath of people who will refuse to get vaccinated, so that's already a problem. Second of all, I think the pandemic has underlined a lot of the issues we were dealing with in America: reliance on foreign manufacture / resources, lack of affordable healthcare, lack of affordable housing, police brutality, massive economic disparity, lack of education (anti-intellectualism), climate change, and more. The pandemic has forced us to face the music on many of these issues, and I don't think they're all going to dissolve just because a vaccine becomes available. Again, not trying to fear-monger. I believe we can solve these problems as a species, but it's up to us and nobody else, really. If we don't do anything about them, things might continue to get worse.




Of course we rely on foreign manufacturing because all our wealthy took all the jobs to bumfuckistan and pay them pennies rather then paying people a decent wage. Because they have dicks for faces.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

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InvisibleDoc9151M
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Enjoywho]
    #26848763 - 07/27/20 08:28 PM (7 days, 21 minutes ago)

Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.


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Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (07/27/20 08:28 PM)


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OnlineNonagon Infinity
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Doc9151]
    #26848908 - 07/27/20 09:58 PM (6 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.



Yeah, I'm bracing myself for that sort of situation. However, given the light that's been shined on the issues we're dealing with during this whole fiasco, I'm not so sure I want to go back to the status quo.


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Onlinemorrowasted
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26849065 - 07/28/20 12:01 AM (6 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.



last I checked, viruses don't care who the president is. don't get me wrong, I'd love it if this were true, since my working in the ER has been hell these last few months. it isn't though. who do you imagine is making money on this fiasco? 


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26849272 - 07/28/20 05:19 AM (6 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Watch how fast shit ends after the election,  this is a political fiasco at the moment. It's really sad that it has come down to this nonsense, it's not any different than when politicians play with our military members lives by tying their hands and not letting them do their jobs. This is absolutely about money and politics, nothing else.




Yep the rest of the world is holding their collective breath for your election.
We cant wait for this to be over.


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: pineninja]
    #26849356 - 07/28/20 07:18 AM (6 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Just a reminder, deaths from Covid-19 are a lagging indicator... As you can see in the graph presented above, cases went up, then 2 or 3 weeks later deaths went up.  We know how to more effectively treat, so I wouldn't expect death trendline to 100% mirror cases trend line, but it won't be great, I'll tell you that.





Looks like Texas's lagging indicator is begging to arrive :sad: This doesn't make me happy or gloat, I'm NE but I'm still a fucking United Statesian.  Sending what PPE I can get my hands on to charities there and Florida and Arizona, good luck guys the worst is ahead.  I can't stress enough, mask up, social distance, and wash your damn hands, especially after touching frequently handled objects.  :eatadick: just some levity after a serious post, nothing meant by it.


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ice9]
    #26849371 - 07/28/20 07:29 AM (6 days, 13 hours ago)

675 deaths in TX yesterday is awful. Obviously the monday number is high and the new reporting is probably still being worked out, but that's just about NY at its peak numbers. NY was already well into a lockdown at that point... texas is weeks behind where NY was at. Hopefully the lesser population density buffers the pathetic governmental response delay, it's going to be really bad for at least another month regardless, probably longer because the government there appears to be lost at sea.


Quote:

Public health experts have said for months that the state’s official death toll is an undercount. State health officials said Monday that the policy change would improve the accuracy and timeliness of their data.

Texas law requires death certificates to be filed within 10 days.

“This method does not include deaths of people who had COVID-19 but died of an unrelated cause,” the Texas Department of State Health Services said in a news release.




https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/27/texas-coronavirus-deaths/


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26849374 - 07/28/20 07:31 AM (6 days, 13 hours ago)

Why won't these people stop being so political and dying just to make trump look bad

:rolleyes:


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26849382 - 07/28/20 07:35 AM (6 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Why won't these people stop being so political and dying just to make trump look bad

:rolleyes:



Yeah they really hate him, if it's a cause to die for from a terrible illness.  I mean that's conviction, the bible thumpers should take inspiration :nodofunderstanding:


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ice9]
    #26856785 - 08/01/20 07:42 AM (2 days, 13 hours ago)

Let me restate my position in better terms.  Socialism is a nice way of saying ‘communism’ without actually using the word ‘communism’.

Quote:


Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.




Well I don’t see the problem with this speech.  He’s clearly talking about the rioters, but for some reason you’re conflating rioters with protesters.

Why is that?


--------------------



[quote]Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..[/quote]


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OfflineIce9
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26857381 - 08/01/20 02:48 PM (2 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Let me restate my position in better terms.  Socialism is a nice way of saying ‘communism’ without actually using the word ‘communism’.

Quote:


Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children. Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials, and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. Many of these people have no idea why they’re doing this, but some know what they are doing. They think the American people are weak and soft and submissive, but no, the American people are strong and proud and they will not allow our country and all of its values, history, and culture to be taken from them.




Well I don’t see the problem with this speech.  He’s clearly talking about the rioters, but for some reason you’re conflating rioters with protesters.

Why is that?




Socialism already exists in the US, so uh, I guess I don't know what the first comment applies to.

As to the quote, thank you for interpreting those words, which while could be viewed as ambiguous, are only ambiguous to disingenuous, bad faith individuals, who attempt sophistry to climb out of the narrow hole the speaker has placed them. Please though, continue copying direct quotes, and interpret them in unique and disingenuous ways.  Maybe you could land a job as a white house press secretary... it's kind of a requirement.  Probably good benefits too.


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