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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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About the Pandemic in America
    #26842989 - 07/24/20 04:03 PM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

I know a lot of us have been waiting for the pandemic to end. A lot of us have been waiting for an announcement from some authority figure (anyone, really - whoever you look up to and put your trust into) that, though this has been hell, it's finally over.

I'm here to ask a question that's been on my mind lately: what if you instead were to suddenly have the revelation that it doesn't end? What if you suddenly knew that things will just continue to get worse? What if you suddenly knew that the mandated masks, the lock-ins, the unstable economy, the protests, all of the shit we've been going through as Americans is just the beginning? What if you now knew that we can never go back to a state that will remind us of what used to be "normal" before this all started?

Would this newfound knowledge change your behavior? Would it change your relationships? Would it change your philosophy? Would it change your values? If so, why? If not, why not?

I find these questions to be increasingly important because, at least for now, we don't know whether or not this is actually going to get better at some point. All things eventually pass, but maybe not in this lifetime. We have to start thinking about the possibility that things are going to get a lot worse for a long time, and to start thinking about what that means to us.

I don't mean to be a downer here. If anything, I hope that thinking about these questions might bring us to some newfound appreciation for life - not hope, necessarily, but just appreciation and mindfulness. Much love to you all. Hope you're doing okay, mentally.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26843013 - 07/24/20 04:17 PM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

Well that sounds like a plausible but very dramatic interpretation. I know that pretty much the entirety of the rest of the world has gotten back to some degree of normality so I do know it's possible here. At the beginning of the pandemic I thought there is nothing anyone could do to even mitigate the virus but also from the very beginning I knew wearing a mask was important.

When this all began I believe most people were scared enough to wear the masks until the charts flattened. Then when we got to a place where we could start Phase 1 there began debates about wearing the masks and going through the proper phases to reopen and it's very clear where that got us. If we can get to a point where we can convince nearly all Americans to wear a mask it won't ever be "normal" again but it'd allow us to adapt, still run businesses , not overrun hospitals and funeral homes and not be so fucking terrified that a moron that thinks it's their right not to wear a mask is going kill your family members by you being asymptomatic.

So I know there's things we could do tomorrow nationwide that'd dramatically reduce our suffering


--------------------
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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26843033 - 07/24/20 04:25 PM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Well that sounds like a plausible but very dramatic interpretation. I know that pretty much the entirety of the rest of the world has gotten back to some degree of normality so I do know it's possible here.




Yeah, I'm not trying to be pessimistic or anything. Of course, it's also possible that we can recover from this and enter a newer, healthier way of life. I'm not expecting the worst to actually happen, just thinking about how it would affect my life if things did continue to go south.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
At the beginning of the pandemic I thought there is nothing anyone could do to even mitigate the virus but also from the very beginning I knew wearing a mask was important.

When this all began I believe most people were scared enough to wear the masks until the charts flattened. Then when we got to a place where we could start Phase 1 there began debates about wearing the masks and going through the proper phases to reopen and it's very clear where that got us. If we can get to a point where we can convince nearly all Americans to wear a mask it won't ever be "normal" again but it'd allow us to adapt, still run businesses , not overrun hospitals and funeral homes and not be so fucking terrified that a moron that thinks it's their right not to wear a mask is going kill your family members by you being asymptomatic.




You know I was going to respond to this by saying I hate how politically divided everyone has become over the masks, but then I remembered that this is election season (easy to forget that sometimes). If it wasn't the masks, it was probably going to be something else getting everyone all riled up and divided.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
So I know there's things we could do tomorrow nationwide that'd dramatically reduce our suffering



Oh, absolutely. The problem at this point seems to be finding common ground among the working class and finding a platform big enough to voice our suggestions.


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Offlineichugwindex
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26843322 - 07/24/20 06:48 PM (10 days, 2 hours ago)

I have the very unpopular while simultaneously popular idea that If something this minor can kill you that YOU should be the one staying home. Unless of course you want to give out the monthly check to make the rest of us stay home. We will starve trying to save you otherwise. Seems pretty unfair currently.


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: ichugwindex] * 4
    #26843326 - 07/24/20 06:50 PM (10 days, 2 hours ago)





Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


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OnlineThe Blind Ass
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts] * 1
    #26843331 - 07/24/20 06:52 PM (10 days, 2 hours ago)

LoL.  :fonz:


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Offlineichugwindex
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26843343 - 07/24/20 06:57 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

Half the country cant survive a single week of not working without losing everything but somehow still no check. I want to help but this seems like a population control move from our capitalist overlords. I'm definitely not in the clear on this one


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: ichugwindex]
    #26843348 - 07/24/20 06:59 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

Unemployment rate is 15%. Seems like at least 15% of people are doing it.

Hungry people don't roll over and die. They eat the rich.


--------------------
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Offlineichugwindex
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts] * 1
    #26843355 - 07/24/20 07:02 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:
Unemployment rate is 15%. Seems like at least 15% of people are doing it.

Hungry people don't roll over and die. They eat the rich.





OMNOMNOM they have engineered us to eat the middle class though while they skate by laughing


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: ichugwindex] * 5
    #26843384 - 07/24/20 07:15 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

ichugwindex said:
I have the very unpopular while simultaneously popular idea that If something this minor can kill you that YOU should be the one staying home. Unless of course you want to give out the monthly check to make the rest of us stay home. We will starve trying to save you otherwise. Seems pretty unfair currently.




So far it seems pretty hard to predict who will get hit hard by it. Obviously the old, overweight and sick fair the worst statistically but that's also the bulk of our population. 40% of the US is obese, ~70% are overweight, tens of millions have one or more pre-existing conditions, 50 million are over age 65. So who gets to pick and choose who gets to stay home, and how are they going to afford to live and stimulate the economy while they do so?

Hindsight is obviously not worth a whole lot, but imo based on what's worked elsewhere, a 4-6 week complete shutdown except for absolute essentials like the food chain, utilities, medicine, emeregency services and such, with temporary universal basic income and essentially a freeze on the lending and rent economy, followed by a phased and gradual reopening, would have been the optimal scenario. Instead we half assed everything and essentially handed out new private islands and yacht fleets to the execs that fund our congress.


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OnlineThe Blind Ass
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26843392 - 07/24/20 07:17 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

:sadyes:


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Offlineichugwindex
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26843404 - 07/24/20 07:23 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

Cant we just send them all to Australia? If they survive the brutal conditions they get to come back


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: ichugwindex]
    #26843422 - 07/24/20 07:29 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

But muh freedoms. I don't want to wear a mask.


--------------------
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Offlineichugwindex
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #26843425 - 07/24/20 07:31 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

No it's a survival island. The survivors earn the right to a mask and then the right to a civilized land


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 2
    #26843627 - 07/24/20 09:24 PM (9 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Well that sounds like a plausible but very dramatic interpretation. I know that pretty much the entirety of the rest of the world has gotten back to some degree of normality so I do know it's possible here.




Yeah, I'm not trying to be pessimistic or anything. Of course, it's also possible that we can recover from this and enter a newer, healthier way of life. I'm not expecting the worst to actually happen, just thinking about how it would affect my life if things did continue to go south.

ST: I can definitely understand what you're saying is that even through all of this shit your number one priority is going to be your mental health your family's Mental Health and physical health. Unless you're not wearing a mask now it won't change much in your life but since there is a real chance of turning this around the last thing I want people to think is that it's hopeless and that 99% of cases are harmless so we shouldn't wear masks which has been a prominent sentiment among the hardest hit areas
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
At the beginning of the pandemic I thought there is nothing anyone could do to even mitigate the virus but also from the very beginning I knew wearing a mask was important.

When this all began I believe most people were scared enough to wear the masks until the charts flattened. Then when we got to a place where we could start Phase 1 there began debates about wearing the masks and going through the proper phases to reopen and it's very clear where that got us. If we can get to a point where we can convince nearly all Americans to wear a mask it won't ever be "normal" again but it'd allow us to adapt, still run businesses , not overrun hospitals and funeral homes and not be so fucking terrified that a moron that thinks it's their right not to wear a mask is going kill your family members by you being asymptomatic.




You know I was going to respond to this by saying I hate how politically divided everyone has become over the masks, but then I remembered that this is election season (easy to forget that sometimes). If it wasn't the masks, it was probably going to be something else getting everyone all riled up and divided.

Normally I would agree with you but the mask issue and debate is completely unwarranted and there's mountains of proof that effectively the lack of Nationwide coordination has killed many more people than necessary. For example if it were just the gorge Floyd case Republicans could still save face if they had handled the pandemic with seriousness. Before Trump encouraged states to reopen whether it was safe or not,encouraging antimask protests, threatened schools that didn't reopen unsafe with the lack of funding that goes to special-needs kids overwhelmingly. I started to consider and ultimately will vote for biden.

This time it wasn't because I disagreed on immigration or abortion but that I've seen giving them devastation from the president's actions in this particular pandemic response. So yes people still would have found something to get him on but his supporter base would write it off as normal Democrat Behavior and fake news. People actually suffering in notoriously red states are overwhelmingly seeing the lack of help, response and acknowledgement of their suffering. This is a life-and-death issue and an issue of recovering the economy and pulling people out of unemployment and worries that they can't pay the bills. So I deeply hope that people take this more seriously than ever before and it seems like voters that were Die Hard Trump fans are on the fence now after seeing so much destruction and encouragement to do these irresponsible things that has led us here

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
So I know there's things we could do tomorrow nationwide that'd dramatically reduce our suffering



Oh, absolutely. The problem at this point seems to be finding common ground among the working class and finding a platform big enough to voice our suggestions.



I couldn't agree more the working class Trump voters in particular have have been forced into a false dichotomy of either being for Trump or for democrats,socialism and ruining America. Those are not the only options. There has been many projects to show Republicans stories about their political Journeys and why they do not vote for Trump this election, it really does give a bit of a voice to disenfranchise Republican voters that are lifelong Republicans and just hate with Trump is doing to the country.

I would like to point out this discussion began very hostile and buy me willing to examine my beliefs and you willing to examine your beliefs we actually found common ground and had a meaningful debate about these things. That's why I never give up hope trying to rationally talk to my fellow man


--------------------
R.I.P
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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Offlineviraldrome
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26843706 - 07/24/20 10:19 PM (9 days, 22 hours ago)

There will probably be a vaccine and everything will go back to normal. Until the next virus. Imagine one as contagious as Covid and as deadly as SARS. The planet needs a pandemic to depopulate, unfortunatley with jet set travel lifestyles there is no such thing as a disease that only wipes out overpopulated areas.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26843726 - 07/24/20 10:43 PM (9 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
ST: I can definitely understand what you're saying is that even through all of this shit your number one priority is going to be your mental health your family's Mental Health and physical health. Unless you're not wearing a mask now it won't change much in your life but since there is a real chance of turning this around the last thing I want people to think is that it's hopeless and that 99% of cases are harmless so we shouldn't wear masks which has been a prominent sentiment among the hardest hit areas




For sure. I noticed my mental health seriously declined these last couple of weeks, so I've been taking extra special care of myself recently and seem to be on the mend in that respect. Gotta take care of myself before I can help others.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Normally I would agree with you but the mask issue and debate is completely unwarranted and there's mountains of proof that effectively the lack of Nationwide coordination has killed many more people than necessary. For example if it were just the gorge Floyd case Republicans could still save face if they had handled the pandemic with seriousness. Before Trump encouraged states to reopen whether it was safe or not,encouraging antimask protests, threatened schools that didn't reopen unsafe with the lack of funding that goes to special-needs kids overwhelmingly. I started to consider and ultimately will vote for biden.




Yeah, this is the craziest election season I've lived through thus far. I will, reluctantly, vote for Biden (though he was definitely not my top choice pre-convention).

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I couldn't agree more the working class Trump voters in particular have have been forced into a false dichotomy of either being for Trump or for democrats,socialism and ruining America. Those are not the only options. There has been many projects to show Republicans stories about their political Journeys and why they do not vote for Trump this election, it really does give a bit of a voice to disenfranchise Republican voters that are lifelong Republicans and just hate with Trump is doing to the country.




I feel like socialism has become a catch-all term for anything left of "center" in America. Most of the people I've met who complain to me about socialism don't even know what it actually is. But yes, you're right that Trump voters have been placed in a dichotomy of sorts, much of that due to Trump's language choices. In his Fourth of July speech this year at Mt. Rushmore, he made a clear distinction between "Americans" and "protestors". You're either on Trump's side, or you're unAmerican, basically. Only a Sith speaks in absolutes...

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I would like to point out this discussion began very hostile and buy me willing to examine my beliefs and you willing to examine your beliefs we actually found common ground and had a meaningful debate about these things. That's why I never give up hope trying to rationally talk to my fellow man



Oh, I never felt any hostility from you, man. Hope you didn't feel any hostility from me, either. I sensed some disagreement, maybe, but never any hostility. I'm a firm believer in the educational power of civil debate. You can love someone and still disagree with them :smile:


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: feevers]
    #26843729 - 07/24/20 10:45 PM (9 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Hindsight is obviously not worth a whole lot, but imo based on what's worked elsewhere, a 4-6 week complete shutdown except for absolute essentials like the food chain, utilities, medicine, emeregency services and such, with temporary universal basic income and essentially a freeze on the lending and rent economy, followed by a phased and gradual reopening, would have been the optimal scenario. Instead we half assed everything and essentially handed out new private islands and yacht fleets to the execs that fund our congress.



Exactly. If anything, I think the pandemic just underlined some of the extant issues we were already facing. It was just easier to ignore them before we had more pressing matters on our plates.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Ahab McBathsalts] * 1
    #26843732 - 07/24/20 10:47 PM (9 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

Ahab McBathsalts said:




Everyone is waiting for a "Mission Accomplished" moment. And given the election, it will probably happen. The White house is going to jump the shark on this one.



Nice reference. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Man, this year has just been absolutely nuts: A pandemic, a struggling economy, massive protests, and on top of all that: it's an election year. I'm never going to forget 2020. Truth really is stranger than fiction.


--------------------
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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: About the Pandemic in America [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26843742 - 07/24/20 10:52 PM (9 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
I know a lot of us have been waiting for the pandemic to end. A lot of us have been waiting for an announcement from some authority figure (anyone, really - whoever you look up to and put your trust into) that, though this has been hell, it's finally over.

I'm here to ask a question that's been on my mind lately: what if you instead were to suddenly have the revelation that it doesn't end? What if you suddenly knew that things will just continue to get worse? What if you suddenly knew that the mandated masks, the lock-ins, the unstable economy, the protests, all of the shit we've been going through as Americans is just the beginning? What if you now knew that we can never go back to a state that will remind us of what used to be "normal" before this all started?

Would this newfound knowledge change your behavior? Would it change your relationships? Would it change your philosophy? Would it change your values? If so, why? If not, why not?

I find these questions to be increasingly important because, at least for now, we don't know whether or not this is actually going to get better at some point. All things eventually pass, but maybe not in this lifetime. We have to start thinking about the possibility that things are going to get a lot worse for a long time, and to start thinking about what that means to us.

I don't mean to be a downer here. If anything, I hope that thinking about these questions might bring us to some newfound appreciation for life - not hope, necessarily, but just appreciation and mindfulness. Much love to you all. Hope you're doing okay, mentally.




First acceptance then grief.

You can brigthen your own life and those close to you even as the rest may dim.

So my light to you I appreciate your well wishes.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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