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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26840620 - 07/23/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You think you’re “educating” people about “antifa” you remind me of XUL

You’re a far right fascist that’s just hasn’t come out of the closet. We already know what you are. You haven’t fooled anyone


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26840623 - 07/23/20 01:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)



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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26840625 - 07/23/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
You think you’re “educating” people about “antifa” you remind me of XUL

You’re a far right fascist that’s just hasn’t come out of the closet. We already know what you are. You haven’t fooled anyone




When I read the thread title back when it was on page 1 I thought it was a dredged up XUL thread.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26840628 - 07/23/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I just have to feel it?
does anyone have to agree with me?
is my soul still vindicated if I was mistaken?




You're twisting my idea. I'll try lay it out plainly one more time.

If you kill in self defense, (and most people have enough wisdom to know when that really is...)




This makes it sound like you don't think people make mistakes in self defense, but you just posted a video of an activist making mistakes in a use of force simulation.

If i shoot and kill someone because of the potential threat they represent to my life and turn out to be mistaken in my assessment thereof, is my soul still vindicated under your universal law of justice?  yes or no?  This should be simple as fuck to answer.




Yes, but you're going to feel guilt longer.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Citizen X]
    #26840634 - 07/23/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
You think you’re “educating” people about “antifa” you remind me of XUL

You’re a far right fascist that’s just hasn’t come out of the closet. We already know what you are. You haven’t fooled anyone




I'm pro legal drug, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-welfare (to an extent), pro-immigration to the limits we can assimilate them successfully, anti-censorship and think police forces need reform (not defunding.) I really thought I was a moderate democrat/liberal until about 2015 when the party started going off the rails.

Is it any wonder people like me are going to vote for Trump? We're accused of being alt-right fascists because we don't like Antifa. It's kind hilarious how many of us feel completely politically homeless now.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/23/20 01:09 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil]
    #26840652 - 07/23/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2060&context=mlr

http://cardozolawreview.com/defending-white-space-self-defense/

This book is great, too.




Book doesn't interest me. I'm going to read the second one fully when I have time before deciding on the first. That's a loooot of reading.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26840665 - 07/23/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Citizen X said:
You think you’re “educating” people about “antifa” you remind me of XUL

You’re a far right fascist that’s just hasn’t come out of the closet. We already know what you are. You haven’t fooled anyone




I'm pro legal drug, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-welfare (to an extent), pro-immigration to the limits we can assimilate them successfully, anti-censorship and think police forces need reform (not defunding.) I really thought I was a moderate democrat/liberal until about 2015 when the party started going off the rails.

Is it any wonder people like me are going to vote for Trump? We're accused of being alt-right fascists because we don't like Antifa. It's kind hilarious how many of us feel completely politically homeless now.





I don’t care who you vote for, honesty. I didn’t know it was somebody else’s responsibility to make you feel anything?

You’re brainwashed bruh. Sad fact but none of my concern. Burn down the system. We’ll see each other out there one day.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Citizen X]
    #26840678 - 07/23/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Citizen X said:
You think you’re “educating” people about “antifa” you remind me of XUL

You’re a far right fascist that’s just hasn’t come out of the closet. We already know what you are. You haven’t fooled anyone




I'm pro legal drug, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-welfare (to an extent), pro-immigration to the limits we can assimilate them successfully, anti-censorship and think police forces need reform (not defunding.) I really thought I was a moderate democrat/liberal until about 2015 when the party started going off the rails.

Is it any wonder people like me are going to vote for Trump? We're accused of being alt-right fascists because we don't like Antifa. It's kind hilarious how many of us feel completely politically homeless now.





I don’t care who you vote for, honesty. I didn’t know it was somebody else’s responsibility to make you feel anything?

You’re brainwashed bruh. Sad fact but none of my concern. Burn down the system. We’ll see each other out there one day.




I'm not going to be apart of or responsible for the immeasurable suffering your collective nihilistic outlook is going to bring pockets of America. I intend to avoid the storm and warn as many as possible that it can't be stopped in areas where those with your attitude are concentrated. (Hint: mostly large democrat cities that want to eat their own people for some reason.)


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/23/20 01:32 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26840817 - 07/23/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
You’re brainwashed bruh. Sad fact but none of my concern.



Citizen X put me on "ingore" after I started convincing people that Russia-Gate was a hoax.  He didn't want to be 'brainwashed' I guess.  :shrug:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26840883 - 07/23/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

And I’ll keep on outing you as the fascist you really are. Glad we could come to an understanding


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Citizen X]
    #26840889 - 07/23/20 03:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I don’t think fal is a fascist he just has a terminal case of contrarianism


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26840894 - 07/23/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If people focused on the actual bad things Trump does, rather than the make believe bad things he does, I wouldn't be contrarian at all.

There's a LOT of make believe on this board for some reason.  :shrug:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26841186 - 07/23/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

When you call people fascist that know they aren't actually fascist, it's pretty much confirmation to them they are on the rational and SANE side of the debate. Who would want to join a group or change side to align themselves with people who continually falsely accuse them of being something they are not?

Most political parties aren't very good at making allies these days...


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/23/20 06:04 PM)


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26841210 - 07/23/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

MadMuncher said:
yes the american antifa master site please
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

MadMuncher said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
So looking at this list I copy pasted in more detail, it appears the bottom list on the master site is only loosely affiliated with Antifa.  (Some may be, some may be not) whereas the top list is more DIRECTLY associated with Anfita.

I could actually shave the list in half to keep it more accurately Antifa™ and less anti-fascist, period.




i looked at the site. none of those links are from the us




Antifa is a global organization. It was just the first one I found. I can find an American one for you tomorrow if you'd like.



Quote:

MadMuncher said:
yes the american antifa master site please



Quote:

Vahn421 said:
MadMuncher said:
yes the american antifa master site please


I will provide something, though I may actually be standing corrected.

So I mean... that's where I started. But now I don't know.

Looks like I'm GOING to have to provide an American source, but I'm tired. I'll do it tomorrow.




first, you are a liar.

second, MadMuncher said:
yes the american antifa master site please


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Offlineqman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26841216 - 07/23/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If people focused on the actual bad things Trump does, rather than the make believe bad things he does, I wouldn't be contrarian at all.

There's a LOT of make believe on this board for some reason.  :shrug:




The funny thing is that people keep asking for "evidence" when discussing these political issues. We are discussing and debating social issues and usually there's very little hard evidence involved.

I really don't consider a 'study' that is already looking for a desired outcome in many cases to be "evidence" for a claim in the social sciences.  We can look at the facts of many different things and then draw completely different conclusions based on those facts, but those established facts are usually not real evidence for any claim and conclusion.

It just seems when dealing with these discussions, there really isn't too many forms of 'evidence' that couldn't be potentially contaminated with other factors.

It seems when you provided legal evidence for the Russiagate situation, everyone dismissed it because they thought it was contaminated for one reason or another.

Is Antifa a real organization, please provide the evidence?  Again, all I see is people that have already made up their minds on both sides and then either accept or reject any forms of new information. In other words, political discussions are mostly OPINIONS that could have some forms of evidence that usually can be dismissed for a large variety of different reasons. Or am I missing something here?


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26841219 - 07/23/20 06:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

i am genuinely interested in any evidence of antifa doing anything in the us. i have been at the protests often and have yet to meet or here of anyone who knows anything about antifa. according to right-wing conspiracy sites my hometown is one of their hotspots and they are behind pretty much anything the protesters are doing. i can tell you from first hand experience this is not true. vahn should go downtown and see it for himself and ask questions to the protesters instead of spewing complete garbage for 3 days straight. what a joke


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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30 pages of bullshit [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26841225 - 07/23/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

29 pages of far-right propaganda. vahn you should come down to the protests


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26841228 - 07/23/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry, I got caught up in other things today.

https://joinantifa.com/2019/08/19/form-an-antifa-group/

Some key lines:

"If you form a local antifa group, you will be expected to do a few things:"

"Both the authorities and fascists will be interested in your group’s membership, so you should consider the question of public visibility carefully before you start. We strongly recommend against antifa groups being organized using the open, public model of most contemporary activism because of the risk of infiltration."

"In fact, we recommend that you stay anonymous both while forming and until your first action. Anonymity is your best defense, and you should keep it intact as long as you can...Use a “closed collective” model: this is a membership-based policy with no open meetings. Don’t allow new people to walk in off the street. Instead, develop a process for researching and vetting people who want to be involved."

"you might need a public face to talk to other groups, club owners to convince them to cancel Nazi bands, to meet people to receive information they don’t want to share online, orto table at events. To limit exposure, make sure one person is designated as the semi-public face, even if they never admit they are a group member. This limits how many people can be exposed."

"As part of staying anonymous, you should carefully manage your online presence. We recommend only using Twitter; it limits the amount of personal information you expose and makes tracking your connections more difficult. Facebook presents numerous, major risks for the security of your members and supporters"


I could keep going but you get the point. It appears American Antifa has become a lot more anonymous than they were 3-4 years ago when I was first researching them. They meet in private, keep membership a secret and it's actually a lot harder to find an American Antifa site than it used to be because of it. Despite that surprise, this should be enough evidence of the position I'm asserting.

Edit: All of this completely reminds me of the things Maxie told me 3-4 years ago about how Antifa was organized, but I didn't realize they were THIS underground now!


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (07/23/20 06:23 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26841232 - 07/23/20 06:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If people focused on the actual bad things Trump does, rather than the make believe bad things he does, I wouldn't be contrarian at all.

There's a LOT of make believe on this board for some reason.  :shrug:




The funny thing is that people keep asking for "evidence" when discussing these political issues. We are discussing and debating social issues and usually there's very little hard evidence involved.

I really don't consider a 'study' that is already looking for a desired outcome in many cases to be "evidence" for a claim in the social sciences.  We can look at the facts of many different things and then draw completely different conclusions based on those facts, but those established facts are usually not real evidence for any claim and conclusion.

It just seems when dealing with these discussions, there really isn't too many forms of 'evidence' that couldn't be potentially contaminated with other factors.

It seems when you provided legal evidence for the Russiagate situation, everyone dismissed it because they thought it was contaminated for one reason or another.

Is Antifa a real organization, please provide the evidence?  Again, all I see is people that have already made up their minds on both sides and then either accept or reject any forms of new information. In other words, political discussions are mostly OPINIONS that could have some forms of evidence that usually can be dismissed for a large variety of different reasons. Or am I missing something here?




I agree with your take. I actually find charts and graphs to be potentially misleading or rigged studies anyway. How are we to know because someone, "did a study" that the data isn't skewed? I prefer other approaches in addition to empirical ones to draw conclusions for this reason.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/23/20 06:28 PM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26841248 - 07/23/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
i am genuinely interested in any evidence of antifa doing anything in the us. i have been at the protests often and have yet to meet or here of anyone who knows anything about antifa. according to right-wing conspiracy sites my hometown is one of their hotspots and they are behind pretty much anything the protesters are doing. i can tell you from first hand experience this is not true. vahn should go downtown and see it for himself and ask questions to the protesters instead of spewing complete garbage for 3 days straight. what a joke




And I'm sure many right-wing people would also argue they're not part of any formal organization either. So one can play a game of semantics, or one can come forward and become intellectually honest and not protective of a certain ideology.

I could be a registered Democrat and not hold one true Democratic Party value. I could also not officially be a member of a certain (Antifa or Nazi) 'organization' and still be a more aligned with that ideology than any official member.

Either way, I personally don't think the protests that went across the US in over 100 cities have anything to do with Antifa. That's not to say there wasn't potentially isolated pockets of organized Antifa in some cities, but it wasn't really enough to matter.


Edited by qman (07/23/20 06:31 PM)


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