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Onlinekoods
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: 1uptoadstool] * 1
    #26872924 - 08/10/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:laugh2:

The right is completely detached from reality


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineqman
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: 1uptoadstool]
    #26872948 - 08/10/20 09:35 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Do we have any Marxists running?  I might have to check them out given the other choices.




biden will do the bidding of the far left whether he shares their believes or not. These last few months have shown obvious example after example of marxist insureection with the left using BLM and antifa as their foot soldiers. cultural Marxism has been growing in the states for decades ever since the frankfort school got it tentacles into american academia




No, Biden will do the bidding of The Elite who own the corporate sponsors. Do The Elite push the BLM and other Marxist narratives to distract the peasants?  Absolutely, but it's all about distracting them as they gain even more power and money.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: qman]
    #26873037 - 08/10/20 10:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
No, Biden will do the bidding of The Elite who own the corporate sponsors.



:awesomenod:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: qman] * 1
    #26873097 - 08/10/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You're probably right. Actually there's a 100% certainty that you're mostly right.

The narrative that Trump's people are pushing right now is that Biden is going to go hard left. It's funny really. They want to connect Democrats support of the protests to Marxism by way of BLM. There's really not much else the GOP can run on.

Biden will throw a few crumbs though.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: qman]
    #26873544 - 08/10/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Do we have any Marxists running?  I might have to check them out given the other choices.




biden will do the bidding of the far left whether he shares their believes or not. These last few months have shown obvious example after example of marxist insureection with the left using BLM and antifa as their foot soldiers. cultural Marxism has been growing in the states for decades ever since the frankfort school got it tentacles into american academia




No, Biden will do the bidding of The Elite who own the corporate sponsors. Do The Elite push the BLM and other Marxist narratives to distract the peasants?  Absolutely, but it's all about distracting them as they gain even more power and money.



Trump hasnt done the bidding of the elite huh?


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R.I.P
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& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineProton
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 2
    #26875261 - 08/11/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Figured I'd jump in on this thread as someone from the UK who has no real dog in this fight.

Full disclosure (and purely anecdotal so believe or disbelieve at your own discretion), in 2015 I was telling friends and family that I thought Trump would win in 2016. Further disclosure, if I had been a US citizen I may well have voted for Trump. I disagree with plenty of his policies and he has a habit of saying stupid things far too often. If I were a US citizen this time round, I would be very tempted to abstain from voting or write in a candidate.

In 2020 I'm far less certain of his chance of winning. I trust gambling sites on their odds far more than polls which are almost always biased one way or another. Currently they have Trump at about 42% and Biden at about 58% but it has been trending in Trump's direction for the last couple of months, despite a downturn following his administration's policies towards COVID-19. That said, I think when it comes to the debates, Trump will gain again in the polls and the election is still anyone's game.

What I will say is that the historically very tolerant left is anything but tolerant these days and seems intent on demonising and shutting down opposition and divergent thoughts and views. There are progressive policies which are absolutely valid and which I think should be enacted, but the methods by which the left is going about things are by and large hostile, divisive and (to co-opt a popular left wing adjective) toxic.

The same toxicity can be said for many on the right; social media, inequality, injustice and a general sense of uncertainty and anxiety have all contributed to unprecedented polarisation on both sides, and this is very worrisome generally for societal cohesion.

What I would also say (in general and from looking at this thread) is that for the last decade and continuing to present the left seems to have a real sense of moral superiority and has absolutely no qualms with denigrating their opponents and/or plainly disregarding their views, which may or may not be valid. But it's this lack of respect, lack of common decency for a fellow human, which is what will push people away from your 'side' and towards another. Setting out your 'absolutely correct' position and forcing people to either be with you or against you is a very risky play and if it backfires, it will be entirely on you. The world is not black and white. The world is nuanced. The world is an infinite spectrum of grey.

What is more surprising to me is that on a forum for drug enthusiasts, who traditionally were the most open minded and conscientious people, I'm seeing real deep seated anger, intolerance and entrenchment in one side or the other. If my time with psychedelics has taught me anything it's that we don't know shit: everything is relative, there is no absolute right and wrong, and the best we can do is to do our best, and be as loving and forgiving as possible.

What ever happened to giving each other the benefit of the doubt in a conversation and trying to find common ground?


Edited by Proton (08/11/20 02:52 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: Texas Honey Badger]
    #26875265 - 08/11/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Here's a very good reason NOT to change your mind:  https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26875212#26875212

In any case, I now KNOW I will not vote for Biden.  HORRIBLE choice for VP.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: Proton]
    #26875268 - 08/11/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Excellent post, proton!  :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26875288 - 08/11/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

there is no absolute right and wrong,




A lot of times there is absolutely right and wrong


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineProton
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: koods] * 1
    #26875290 - 08/11/20 03:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

there is no absolute right and wrong,




A lot of times there is absolutely right and wrong




Immediately disagreeable and cherry picking one part of a larger overall post.

Can I get a QED


Edited by Proton (08/11/20 03:13 PM)


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Onlinekoods
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: Proton]
    #26875294 - 08/11/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Lol you said it not me


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineProton
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: koods]
    #26875296 - 08/11/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Can you give me an example of an absolute?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: koods]
    #26875297 - 08/11/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You took out the context.  On it's own, you're correct.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: Proton]
    #26875298 - 08/11/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Proton said:
Can you give me an example of an absolute?



Quote:

there is no absolute right and wrong



This statement is an absolute


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineProton
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: koods] * 1
    #26875301 - 08/11/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It's a paradox, I don't know where you're going with this other than trying to score meaningless points on the internet.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: Proton]
    #26875325 - 08/11/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

No. I seriously believe that the idea there is no right or wrong is extremely bad for society. It allows you to forgive extremely bad behavior.

I also reject the idea that doing drugs give you some kind of wisdom about these things. You’re fucked up. Your neurons are not working properly. It’s the last place you should be learning life lessons.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (08/11/20 03:29 PM)


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OfflineProton
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: koods] * 2
    #26875332 - 08/11/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, absolutely fair enough, I can go with that on a practical basis, and I imagine I agree with most of what you would consider indefensible*. But as a counter argument, how would you defend against purity spirals when pursuing that avenue of thought?

*Obviously I don't know your position in full (or at all really) but just to expound on this point for the sake of continuing an interesting discussion, my personal philosophy would be that anything which needlessly causes suffering should be avoided. But at the same time I recognise that that's just a relative artifact of my own cultural programming. I still do truly believe it but I'm fully prepared to accept that it's entirely relative.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: koods]
    #26875336 - 08/11/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
No. I seriously believe that the idea there is no right or wrong is extremely bad for society. It allows you to forgive extremely bad behavior.

I also reject the idea that doing drugs give you some kind of wisdom about these things. You’re fucked up. Your neurons are not working properly. It’s the last place you should be learning life lessons.





I'm actually in agreement with this.

EDIT: With the drugs thing... SOMETIMES they can be more, sometimes they aren't... but the first part of what you said, I agree completely.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (08/11/20 03:45 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: koods]
    #26875363 - 08/11/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:

No. I seriously believe that the idea there is no right or wrong is extremely bad for society.




Moralizing fuels the fires of hatred and inflames egotistical self-righteous indignation.

For most issues (outside of unjustified murder), there is no agreement on those terms. What one person calls good another person calls bad. For example, Leo Terrell talks negatively about the BLM movement. Many blacks agree with Leo - that BLM is bad. (But nobody wants to hear from them.)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: I am voting Trump change my mind.... [Re: Proton]
    #26877341 - 08/12/20 06:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Proton said:
But it's this lack of respect, lack of common decency for a fellow human, which is what will push people away from your 'side' and towards another.

What ever happened to giving each other the benefit of the doubt in a conversation and trying to find common ground?




Why should I owe any respect to people that have literally called for me and people like me to be shot on sight?

There's no common ground with someone that thinks they have a god given right to kill me on sight.


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