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OfflineVolcanoCybe
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Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix?
    #26839101 - 07/22/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I will be using a pasteurized manure substrate with a rye grain/berry mix spawn 2:1 ratio. Wondering what to use as a casing mix? Was thinking of pasteurizing a 50/50 coco/verm mix but I wondered if I should add Gypsum to it. I understand it is a mineral for the mushrooms so maybe would be useful for future flushes?


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: VolcanoCybe]
    #26839127 - 07/22/20 07:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

To answer your question, assuming you mean coco coir, you can add gypsum to it if you like. I wouldn't call coir/verm a casing in the proper sense, more like a pseudo casing, but you could use it if you wanted.

Honestly if I were you, if you are growing cubes I would skip the manure and the casing and just spawn to coir as a bull sub. 

You don't have to pasteurize coir, most of us just prepare it in a 5 gallon bucket and boiling water (to field capacity). Heat treating it helps make it easier for the myc to digest, but other than that it doesn't need to be pasteurized or properly sterilized. Partially sterilizing it in a bucket works great.


You could use CVG (coir, verm, gypsum) if you want, personally I just use plain coir and it performs just as well. If I added too much water I will add in some dry verm to reach field capacity.

I usually mix 4 to 6 quarts spawn to 1 brick of coir per tub.


Edited by mushpunx (07/23/20 01:34 AM)


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OfflineVolcanoCybe
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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: mushpunx]
    #26839166 - 07/22/20 07:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Appreciate the response! Reason I want to pasteurize the Coco is for the Trichderm, and by pasteurizing I was going to fill a bucket of coco with boiling water as the method you described.

Interesting tip about the manure. I will have to try a tub of coco bulk substrate with some gypsum. Could peat moss work as well?

I wondered if a Verm/Coco casing mix was a novelty. Now I know. Greatly appreciated. lol.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: VolcanoCybe]
    #26839347 - 07/22/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

To pasteurize, you need to keep temperatures between (I always forget the temp range) I wanna say 140 + 160F for 60, to 90 min max. The harmful bacteria die off at a lower temperature that the beneficial bacteria can survive.

Boiling water would kill the beneficial bacteria (if there were any on coir) and partially sterilize the coir.
The only reason we use the boiling water in bucket prepping coir is to make it easier for the myc to digest. I believe you could prep coir with cold water if you really wanted.

This is why I suggested using a coir sub over the manure, manure needs to be properly pasteurized and it's a good bit of work, it's just so much easier to use coir.

I usually start out with 3-3.5 quarts of boiling water per brick. I used to always add verm And gypsum but I don't bother anymore.


You wouldn't want to use peat moss in a substrate. You would only use peat in a casing mix (you typically need to add some hydrated lime too with peat).


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Edited by mushpunx (07/23/20 01:37 AM)


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OfflineVolcanoCybe
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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: mushpunx]
    #26839360 - 07/22/20 09:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
To pasteurize, you need to keep temperatures between (I always forget the temp range) I wanna say 140 + 160F for 60, to 90 min max. The harmful bacteria die off at a lower temperature that the beneficial bacteria can survive.

Boiling water would kill the beneficial bacteria and partially sterilize the coir.
The only reason we use the boiling water in bucket prepping coir is to make it easier for the myc to digest. I believe you could prep coir with cold water if you really wanted.

This is why I suggested using a coir sub over the manure, manure needs to be properly pasteurized and it's a good bit of work, it's just so much easier to use coir.

I usually start out with 3-3.5 quarts of boiling water per brick. I used to always add verm And gypsum but I don't bother anymore.


You wouldn't want to use peat moss in a substrate. You would only use peat in a casing mix (you typically need to add some hydrated lime too with peat).




Thats fascinating! I did not know that good and bad bacteria burn off at different temperatures. My coir is in a bag, any idea on how many quarts of coco to quarts of 160F water for pasteurization? Thanks again for all the info. I love this community.


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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: VolcanoCybe]
    #26839520 - 07/22/20 11:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I would not do coir with boiling water. Do proper pasteurisation to be safe.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26839686 - 07/23/20 01:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bsdgaou said:
I would not do coir with boiling water. Do proper pasteurisation to be safe.




Why? There is no reason to
pasteurize coir because there are no beneficial thermophilic microbes. Bucket sterilizing coir works just fine.



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Edited by mushpunx (07/23/20 01:33 AM)


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: VolcanoCybe]
    #26839687 - 07/23/20 01:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Like I've been saying coir doesn't need to be pasteurized. It doesn't have the beneficial microbes. You can just use boiling water and a bucket to partially sterilize it. I've never used bagged coir though only in brick form so I can't answer that.
Brick coir is extremely dry and compressed, it expands to something like 14 quarts if I remember correctly. Your bagged coir might have some water in it already, try doing a search to see what other people have said. You might have to experiment a bit to find out how much water to add to reach field capacity.
If I prep my coir too wet I add dry verm to reach field capacity (otherwise you have to squeeze the water out.). Too dry I add more water.
You can use verm and gypsum in your mix if you like, (I only used a few quarts verm per brick).

If you DO want to properly pasteurize something, like manure, it needs to be kept at pasteurization temps all the way thru to the center for 60 to 90 min.


Edited by mushpunx (07/23/20 01:47 AM)


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InvisibleBsdgaou

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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: mushpunx]
    #26841816 - 07/23/20 11:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It's not working for me. When I started pasteurising it, I get the results. It's not hard, just load bags and cook them in 60-70°C range for 60-90 minutes.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #26841931 - 07/24/20 02:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bsdgaou said:
It's not working for me. When I started pasteurising it, I get the results. It's not hard, just load bags and cook them in 60-70°C range for 60-90 minutes.




Were you using any additives besides coir, verm, gypsum? Like coffee or something?

Well do whatever works for you but if it was just coir it was most likely your spawn that was contaminated.


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OfflineOriginalGinger
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Re: Putting Gypsum in Coco Casing Mix? [Re: mushpunx]
    #26908238 - 08/30/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

MANY trusted cultivators use the boiled water bucket tek for their coir, so you really should take in what Mushpunx is saying, that being said I don't like to go through the effort of all the sterile work with my jars just to take a chance with anything dusty that might have crawled into my coir while sitting around so I pressure cook sterilize for 2 hours.


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