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Srirachi
Mold Hand



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Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring?
#26837759 - 07/22/20 09:08 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Twitter is banning QAnon accounts is why I ask. I didn't post this in Pol because it isn't a political question. It's about situational ethics. Do you believe that only those you agree with have the same rights you do?
I find it remarkable that we claim kids cannot be affected by violent entertainment, but that grown adults cannot possibly resist the influence of Twitter.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Srirachi] 7
#26837806 - 07/22/20 09:34 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes I'm generally against censorship from any side, but I also think that private social media companies can do what they want with the bandwith they pay for, they shouldn't be required to host anything. The crazies are totally free to start their own platform. If the government or ISP's started controlling speech and content then it'd be worrisome.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



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Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: feevers] 1
#26837813 - 07/22/20 09:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said: Yes, but I also think that private social media companies can do what they want with the bandwith they pay for, they shouldn't be required to host anything. The crazies are totally free to start their own platform. If the government or ISP's started controlling speech and content then it'd be worrisome.
I agree.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Srirachi] 1
#26837825 - 07/22/20 09:44 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I try to be as unbiased as possible whenever I can but we're all human. We should all have our turn to speak but words do have power especially among those who don't understand that significance like kids and those among us who are less woke than others. There needs to be a balance, that balance means there needs to be a space where most things are tolerated without question but there's just too many folks out there who are out for themselves.
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26837831 - 07/22/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I appreciate the input. That's pretty much where I am with it - Twitter is their own company, and I'd be pissed if the government told me I had to do something with my own company that I didn't want to do.
Like bake a cake for a wedding I didn't want to bake.
However, if Twitter et al claim they are not responsible when someone posts something that violates DMCA, or any other law, because they are "a platform not a producer" then I feel they should not censor accounts that are not violating the law.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
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Loc:
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: tyrannicalrex] 2
#26837863 - 07/22/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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What's troublesome to me is that it seems to be many of the same politicians and people who claim to be free market capitalists, who are against regulation in the environment, banking/wall st, workplace safety etc because 'the industries will regulate themselves', are the ones that seem to be all for heavily regulating private social media companies. It's almost like they only want the kind of capitalism that directly benefits them.
The conspiracy stuff has quite a few times materialized into real world violence and harassment, so I can't really blame companies for wanting to distance from it. Some other stuff I've heard of people getting banned for is pretty silly, but I still support their right to control content on their own platform.
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



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Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: feevers] 1
#26837886 - 07/22/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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You also make some good points, but don't forget that Tucker Carlson's house got attacked while his wife and kid were there, by angry mobs incited by far-left Democrat posts, and no one has started banning The Squad's posts, which openly incite the harassment of people they disagree with.
Again, I'm not asking this in a political sense even - I just want to try and get people to examine their own motivations. Only each person can answer this: Do you really support freedom, or do you only support freedom for those who say things you agree with?
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: larry.fisherman] 1
#26837887 - 07/22/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
larry.fisherman said: I try to be as unbiased as possible whenever I can...
I do as well.
Quote:
larry.fisherman said: and those among us who are less woke than others.
Here is where I got vomit in the back of my throat. If I could, I would eradicate this way of using the English language, and educate every single person on the use of proper grammar in the English language. I absolutely despise (and cringe) at this kind of language and way of speaking. I'm not formerly educated, but it is completely obvious that sayings like "my bad", and "are you woke" etc...are fucking annoying to anyone that appreciates good conversation and at least a slight bit of intelligence and proper grammar. I would sensor urban hip hop inner city street lingo (this applies to all races, so don't try to get an attitude of "that's racist" with this statement) if I could, and replace it with proper grammar.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26837931 - 07/22/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I swear I'm becoming a crotchety old man, lol.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Srirachi] 1
#26837990 - 07/22/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Srirachi said: It's about situational ethics. Do you believe that only those you agree with have the same rights you do?
I don't think that's the philosophical position that Twitter is taking here - in all reality, they're probably just censoring QAnon accounts because not doing so would lead to outrage for a large portion of their user-base, potentially leading to boycotts and a large loss of active users and, therefore, a large loss of revenue. I think it's just a PR move, personally. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have positive effects (personally, I think it's a net-positive that there are fewer QAnon accounts spewing radical, dangerous misinformation on a popular public forum), but I think Twitter's motivations behind the move have little to do with ethical philosophy and a lot to do with profits.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26838087 - 07/22/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
I don't think that's the philosophical position that Twitter is taking here - in all reality, they're probably just censoring QAnon accounts because not doing so would lead to outrage for a large portion of their user-base, potentially leading to boycotts and a large loss of active users and, therefore, a large loss of revenue.
the people that would be complaining about these accounts would never boycott twitter. Twitter is a known leftist partisan platform and them doing this is no surprise. We’re going to see more of this prejudice as we get closer to November.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: lowbrow] 1
#26838111 - 07/22/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:the people that would be complaining about these accounts would never boycott twitter. Twitter is a known leftist partisan platform and them doing this is no surprise. We’re going to see more of this prejudice as we get closer to November.
My point is that Twitter takes a leftist stance publicly because that's the best way for them to appeal to their largely left-leaning user base. I don't think they're running some program where they're trying to indoctrinate everyone into leftist ideology - they're running a business, and I think their left-leaning position is largely a consequence of the fact that they learned this is what makes them the most money.
I wouldn't call it prejudice. I'd call it a PR move. Twitter as an entity doesn't give a shit about politics, they give a shit about keeping their users happy so that advertisers will continue to buy ad space on their site and so that they can continue to sell the personal information of their users to advertisers.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
Edited by Nonagon Infinity (07/22/20 11:48 AM)
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26838188 - 07/22/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's just a word. Find a word that better suits the meaning , be my guest. At that moment that's the one that came to mind. You have to remember that the word was started by people who actually made the term make sense. I could refer to the antithesis of that as sheep but I doubt you'd bat an eye even though it's overused and a fairly rough terminology. The people who associate the term with the fools who make it look bad are just as cringey, I assure you. The problem with the term is it's now a norm, it's a majority or atleast a loud and large minority. It doesn't make sense unless you're using it to separate specific groups of people to make a point which is where your post began to fail, brah.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26838225 - 07/22/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: Here is where I got vomit in the back of my throat. If I could, I would eradicate this way of using the English language, and educate every single person on the use of proper grammar in the English language. I absolutely despise (and cringe) at this kind of language and way of speaking. I'm not formerly educated, but it is completely obvious that sayings like "my bad", and "are you woke" etc...are fucking annoying to anyone that appreciates good conversation and at least a slight bit of intelligence and proper grammar. I would sensor urban hip hop inner city street lingo (this applies to all races, so don't try to get an attitude of "that's racist" with this statement) if I could, and replace it with proper grammar.
Geeze, chill. The laws of grammar and words change their meanings all the time. The whole purpose of language is to communicate, right? If you understand what he meant, why is there a problem? If you don't like saying "my bad", and "are you woke", then you don't have to say those things, but if you fully understand what is being communicated to you by those phrases and your gut reaction is to criticize that person for not speaking correctly, then you're just being a dick.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26838288 - 07/22/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know guys, I'm just a crabby fucker today. I like both of you, and most everyone in this place actually. *gets off soapbox*.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26838315 - 07/22/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: I know guys, I'm just a crabby fucker today. I like both of you, and most everyone in this place actually. *gets off soapbox*.
I get it, man. We've all been there. Just the other day I was correcting one of my friends for a language problem and he pointed out that I was being a dick. It happens to all of us sometimes
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: feevers]
#26838329 - 07/22/20 01:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said: What's troublesome to me is that it seems to be many of the same politicians and people who claim to be free market capitalists, who are against regulation in the environment, banking/wall st, workplace safety etc because 'the industries will regulate themselves', are the ones that seem to be all for heavily regulating private social media companies. It's almost like they only want the kind of capitalism that directly benefits them.
The conspiracy stuff has quite a few times materialized into real world violence and harassment, so I can't really blame companies for wanting to distance from it. Some other stuff I've heard of people getting banned for is pretty silly, but I still support their right to control content on their own platform.
I totally agree.
The argument people usually make is not that private companies should give a platform to anyone. its that if they are going to act as publishers of certain content they should be treated as publishers and held accountable for the content on their platforms.
I dont care if they are treated as publishers but it does seem like a pretty big loophole for publishers to promite certain content above others without being held accountable and thats the common argument. That twitter, etc are acting as publishers not social media.
Again I dont care but Twitter it's self is taking responsibility for banning certain people and removing posts but then they can turn around and say its not their fault if someone posts something defamatory or threatening for example.
But again I totally agree private companies should be able to fo what they want and its not a freedom of speech issue for private companies to censor people and most free market advocates agree.
Edited by BANANA.MAN (07/22/20 03:16 PM)
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26838396 - 07/22/20 01:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah private companies can do what they want. It's like the decision to ban Alex Jones it was really a business decision because social media then becomes a platform for straight disinformation that could kill people,hate that can turn into real attacks all of which would've been facilitated by twitter,FB etc. People have no idea what rights we have or don't have anymore as Americans. Not wearing a mask during pandemic isn't a constitutional right and freedom of speech does not apply to private companies that is why there are terms nd agreements. Generally I don't like any censorship to happen even to the people I think have the worst ideology. When people like Alex Jones though say that specific Parkland parents are crisis actors led to those parents being harassed whole trying to grieve. To the point where they were inundated with Death threats, in that sense Alex Jones definitely deserve to be kicked off.
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
#26838609 - 07/22/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: It's like the decision to ban Alex Jones it was really a business decision
Exactly. It was a PR stunt. Twitter didn't ban Alex Jones because it was the right thing to do, ethically. They banned Alex Jones because it was the best thing to do to protect their source of income.
Personally, I think it was a very good thing that Alex Jones was banned from Twitter, considering that he's basically a snake oil salesman who spreads blatantly false information and sometimes incites harassment against innocent people. I think that society is probably safer when he doesn't have a large platform. That said, Twitter probably didn't ban him for that reason. They most likely banned him because they did market research and realized that it was the most profitable decision to make.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26838614 - 07/22/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree Alex Jones spreads false info and I'm no fan but I havent seen any evidence that hes incited harrassment.
I dont hold Bernie Sanders accountable for his supporter that shot up a congressional baseball game and I dont hold Alex Jones accountable for something his crazy fans did.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26838640 - 07/22/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: I agree Alex Jones spreads false info and I'm no fan but I havent seen any evidence that hes incited harrassment.
I dont hold Bernie Sanders accountable for his supporter that shot up a congressional baseball game and I dont hold Alex Jones accountable for something his crazy fans did.
Sure, maybe saying that he incited harassment is too strong of wording. I was specifically referring to him calling the parents of school shooting victims "crisis actors", to which his fans responded by harassing some of them. You're right, in that case he didn't tell anyone to harass anyone. Nevertheless, it was reckless of him to say that, and it falls under the "spreading false info" category.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26838642 - 07/22/20 03:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: I agree Alex Jones spreads false info and I'm no fan but I havent seen any evidence that hes incited harrassment.
I dont hold Bernie Sanders accountable for his supporter that shot up a congressional baseball game and I dont hold Alex Jones accountable for something his crazy fans did.
Sure, maybe saying that he incited harassment is too strong of wording. I was specifically referring to him calling the parents of school shooting victims "crisis actors", to which his fans responded by harassing some of them. You're right, in that case he didn't tell anyone to harass anyone. Nevertheless, it was reckless of him to say that, and it falls under the "spreading false info" category.
agreed on the spreading of false info. just not on the "incitement"
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26838916 - 07/22/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: I agree Alex Jones spreads false info and I'm no fan but I havent seen any evidence that hes incited harrassment.
I dont hold Bernie Sanders accountable for his supporter that shot up a congressional baseball game and I dont hold Alex Jones accountable for something his crazy fans did.
Just by labeling these people crisis actors that were in a giant conspiracy and their kids didn’t really die made his base harass the shit out of victims parents he didn’t tell them to do it directly but that was his message was these people are the sum ruining America and let them fill in the blanks. His fans aren’t exactly the most rational bunch and whether he intended to or not he caused those parents harassment directly . If there was no Alex Jones I’m the picture those people would not have been harrassed. The reason you don’t blame Bernie Sanders is because he never put out anything that would’ve led to that man shooting up that game. Alex Jones put out everything except saying go harass these people but his constant rhetoric that all these dead kids parents were crisis actors and enemies of America led directly to those parents being harrassed while they hadn’t even buried their children. Fuck him
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
#26838975 - 07/22/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: I agree Alex Jones spreads false info and I'm no fan but I havent seen any evidence that hes incited harrassment.
I dont hold Bernie Sanders accountable for his supporter that shot up a congressional baseball game and I dont hold Alex Jones accountable for something his crazy fans did.
Just by labeling these people crisis actors that were in a giant conspiracy and their kids didn’t really die made his base harass the shit out of victims parents he didn’t tell them to do it directly but that was his message was these people are the sum ruining America and let them fill in the blanks. His fans aren’t exactly the most rational bunch and whether he intended to or not he caused those parents harassment directly . If there was no Alex Jones I’m the picture those people would not have been harrassed. The reason you don’t blame Bernie Sanders is because he never put out anything that would’ve led to that man shooting up that game. Alex Jones put out everything except saying go harass these people but his constant rhetoric that all these dead kids parents were crisis actors and enemies of America led directly to those parents being harrassed while they hadn’t even buried their children. Fuck him
There is a strict legal standard for incitement. Alex Jones did not meet the criterea.
You could argue that his language was defamatory but he didnt incite anything and hes not responsible for anything he didnt incite just like Bernie.
I dont like him either. But I would never accuse someone of something without evidence simply because I dont like him or hold him accountable for the behavioir of his fans while not holding others to the same standard. thats dishonest.
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



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Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26838986 - 07/22/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think anyone ought to say anything. Including fire and bomb in a crowded area.
I'm a fundementalist on freedom of speech.
--------------------
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


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Posts: 89,464
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Shiithead]
#26838992 - 07/22/20 06:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Censorship is the devil’s handiwork.. no bueno..
--------------------
Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Darwin23
INFJ



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Srirachi]
#26839136 - 07/22/20 07:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yup. I support the right to full-on hate speech and I also support the right of people to listen to and spread the idiotic teachings of Qanon. I'm not for policing speech in any form. I do, though feel that businesses have the right to delete whatever accounts they feel like. I'm a strong supporter of the boog types and it sucks that Facebook purged their accounts but it was their right.
--------------------
Take a look at my journal
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26839178 - 07/22/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:
Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: I agree Alex Jones spreads false info and I'm no fan but I havent seen any evidence that hes incited harrassment.
I dont hold Bernie Sanders accountable for his supporter that shot up a congressional baseball game and I dont hold Alex Jones accountable for something his crazy fans did.
Just by labeling these people crisis actors that were in a giant conspiracy and their kids didn’t really die made his base harass the shit out of victims parents he didn’t tell them to do it directly but that was his message was these people are the sum ruining America and let them fill in the blanks. His fans aren’t exactly the most rational bunch and whether he intended to or not he caused those parents harassment directly . If there was no Alex Jones I’m the picture those people would not have been harrassed. The reason you don’t blame Bernie Sanders is because he never put out anything that would’ve led to that man shooting up that game. Alex Jones put out everything except saying go harass these people but his constant rhetoric that all these dead kids parents were crisis actors and enemies of America led directly to those parents being harrassed while they hadn’t even buried their children. Fuck him
There is a strict legal standard for incitement. Alex Jones did not meet the criterea.
You could argue that his language was defamatory but he didnt incite anything and hes not responsible for anything he didnt incite just like Bernie.
I dont like him either. But I would never accuse someone of something without evidence simply because I dont like him or hold him accountable for the behavioir of his fans while not holding others to the same standard. thats dishonest.
There’s what is legally responsible and then there is what’s right and wrong, a moral responsibility to a platform of people that hinge on every word you say. In Alex Jones’s case i’m not calling for him to be put in jail for inciting people legally. I am saying that what he did to those parents should be criminal and at the very least I understand social media not wanting to facilitate that .
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
#26839201 - 07/22/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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"In Alex Jones’s case i’m not calling for him to be put in jail for inciting people legally. I am saying that what he did to those parents should be criminal"
you contradicted yourself
"I understand social media not wanting to facilitate that ."
As do I and I'm ok with social media banning him. are you even reading the posts you are responding to?
"There’s what is legally responsible and then there is what’s right and wrong"
I agree. but definitions matter. someone claimed Alex Jones incited harrassment. whether or not you are talking about legal proceedings, he objectively did not incite anything according to the definition of incitement and thats all I was objecting to.
You were trying to say he is responsible for his fans bur Bernie isnt. I hold everyone to the same standard. If one's language truly meet the definition of incitement then they are guilty of incitement. if not they are not.
Edited by BANANA.MAN (07/22/20 08:19 PM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Seriously_trippin] 1
#26839208 - 07/22/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm pro-censorship.
Social media platforms must take measures to protect the people against organized campaigns of fake news, of extremist propaganda and against the echo chamber effect such as the Incels experience.
There is a cyber war going on where populations of nations are deliberately exposed to detrimental points of view, in order to manipulate and disrupt these nations.
I'm also pro censoring what sorts of cookies sites may install on your machine. Its going too far.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Asante] 1
#26839369 - 07/22/20 09:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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That same censorship is going to come back to bite you in the ass sooner or later..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Texas Honey Badger
No fucks given



Registered: 07/12/18
Posts: 57,768
Loc: Spicemaster Texas
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Amanita86]
#26839377 - 07/22/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah but Asante is talking about fake news we see every day
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Some call me Paw 🐾
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Asante]
#26839384 - 07/22/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: I'm also pro censoring what sorts of cookies sites may install on your machine. Its going too far.
I am a huge advocate for privacy, and I agree that so many web services are simply going too far. I just wish Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and the like would have a more ethical business model, as I think the problem stems directly from the way they make money. Right now, users and customers of these services are not the same people. The customers are advertisers and anyone else who has enough money to buy the data that these companies collect from their users. Facebook, for example, isn't a product: it's a web service. The product is your personal information that you willingly forfeit as a user of the service.
I know it's extreme, but I honestly wish you had to pay a subscription to be a Facebook, Twitter, or YouTube user (or, maybe a freemium model, where you only get access to all the site features with a subscription). In that case, these companies would be dependent only on the satisfaction of their users for their income, which would actually be easier for them if you think about it. Right now, they have to satisfy both their users and the advertisers that buy data from them. It would be better for the users as well, since they wouldn't be sacrificing their own private data. The hard part would be selling such software to people, since everyone is already so used to getting web services for free. I know, I know... I can dream about it... It'll probably never happen. These companies will probably rely on selling personal data until the bitter end because it's working out really well for them so far.
Still, I think it's possible that we could live in a world where social networking companies make money from subscriptions. Match is a great example of a service like that where people like it. Match is generally regarded as one of the best online dating services out there, and it operates on a freemium subscription model. Users have to pay to use the service, so the users are the customers. Match doesn't have to rely on selling personal information to advertisers to make money (they probably still do, idk, but the point is that they don't have to).
I promise this is all relevant, and I'm going to bring it back to the original topic brought up in the OP now: Let's suppose that Twitter was a freemium subscription model business. Let's suppose that we lived in a world where you could set up an account, follow other users, and "like" tweets for free, but if you wanted to start making posts of your own, you needed to pay $20 per month. What would Twitter do in the case of QAnon in that case? Let's say there were thousands of QAnon people who were paying the monthly subscription under the pretense that they could spew all of their garbage publicly on Twitter. They would probably be more hesitant to ban these users in that case, since banning all of them would mean a serious cut to their profits.
It's interesting to think about how a change in the way they do business would change how they handle these censorship issues.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Texas Honey Badger]
#26839482 - 07/22/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spicemaster said: Yeah but Asante is talking about fake news we see every day
Fake news needs to be reeled in. I wouldn’t call a requirement to stick to actual facts censorship though. Censorship to me is something different than what would be cutting out fake news. I guess we’ll have to get pretty sharp with definitions and such.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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ichugwindex
Dex



Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,613
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 11 months, 1 day
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26839523 - 07/22/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Even if its hate speech against everything I love I think people have the right to say it. It's up to the viewer/listener to decide if the things are true.
Or are we gonna be a nanny state where you need parents permission to buy a butter knife?
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
Edited by ichugwindex (07/22/20 11:13 PM)
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: Will you speak out against censorship even if you fucking hate what they're censoring? [Re: Asante]
#26839562 - 07/22/20 11:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: I'm pro-censorship.
Social media platforms must take measures to protect the people against organized campaigns of fake news, of extremist propaganda and against the echo chamber effect such as the Incels experience.
There is a cyber war going on where populations of nations are deliberately exposed to detrimental points of view, in order to manipulate and disrupt these nations.
I'm also pro censoring what sorts of cookies sites may install on your machine. Its going too far.
So, would you also support censorship of the violent entertainment like music and videogames that are pervasive in our culture today? Russia hardly has the stranglehold on the American mind that Hollywood does.
Who gets to decide what's fake? When news casters speculate about the President's intentions with no proof, would you also censor that speech?
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