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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity
    #26829742 - 07/17/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Do you think there is any correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity?

I’ve noticed when side pins do occur they can be dense monster. Massive enough to apply sufficient force to create space as they develop. Not that topsides lack this attribute but it is pretty clear there is something these gnarly monsters are tapped into that topsides are not. So is it proximity to the grains or nutrients provided during expansion? Multi Spore or mixed genetics? Micro environment? Lack of FAE compared to surface? All of the above?

I’ve done minimum cleanup to MS germinated on agar then put to mini runs in 5pp cups. Pluck out topside cluster pins at 3-4 day maturity. Set to plain water agar followed by warm pour after mycelium get a 1/4” growth. If refined by transfers 4-8 times at 4-7 day intervals then repeat the 5pp process I see very few side pins. But after the first flush I dissect the substrate. The density in growth around the nutrients in coir mimics consolidation. Where as growth upward is far less dense until base development of clusters and fruits. Similar observations MS runs from grain jars spawned to tubs where substrate and grains are layered or mixed.

Point being the short path to nutrients seem to benefit development. If deeper substrate support larger fruits/flushes do you attribute this to mycelium ratios and water content? How do we supply the necessary hydration and take away the inherent increase in path for nutrients?


As I write I realize this my be chocolate treat induced yapping. I hope in a few hours when this has worn off I’m not embarrassed by this post.


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OfflineTrichodingus
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26829816 - 07/17/20 09:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I used popcorn a few times and the biggest fruits grew directly from a kernel near the surface.
I'm guessing the mycelium saves energy by producing fruits from nutrient dense areas.
The other factor is the internal calculus of environmental conditions vs proximity to nutrients.

I'd bet if you made a tub with 3/4 of the spawn on one half and 1/4 on the other, and kept surface conditions perfect on the side with 1/4 and terrible on the side with 3/4, it'd fruit heavily on the side with 1/4...

Let me know if I'm understanding you correctly. I'm going spawn to shoeboxes today and I'd do that experiment if you're interested.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: Trichodingus]
    #26829820 - 07/17/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I remember a while back somebody kept insisting that if you leave your spawn in chunks instead of breaking it up all the way then you’ll get huge clusters.

A few legit members disputed it and he never posted any pictures to try and prove it though.


I’m pretty sure it’s just genetics and conditions but you could always run some tests.


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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: Trichodingus]
    #26829924 - 07/17/20 11:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I’m pretty sure it’s just genetics and conditions but you could always run some tests.



Quote:

A.k.a said:

I used popcorn a few times and the biggest fruits grew directly from a kernel near the surface.
I'm guessing the mycelium saves energy by producing fruits from nutrient dense areas.
The other factor is the internal calculus of environmental conditions vs proximity to nutrients.

I'd bet if you made a tub with 3/4 of the spawn on one half and 1/4 on the other, and kept surface conditions perfect on the side with 1/4 and terrible on the side with 3/4, it'd fruit heavily on the side with 1/4...

Let me know if I'm understanding you correctly. I'm going spawn to shoeboxes today and I'd do that experiment if you're interested.





No doubt the 1/4 side would fare well on top and give all it could give. I bet in similar fashion the 3/4 side would also seek the path of least resistance to the best conditions for reproduction. Then pass it’s nutrients to the fruits until triggered to drop spores. Which also begs the question does restricting the space in which a cap develops affect the time to maturity. I’ve seen side pins snake around and grow hard as wood only to break veil a few days after it reaches the surface a full week after the topside first flush. But back to the split grow tub. Both sides will transport as much nutrients as possible and yield as much as genetically and environmentally possible. In this scenario let’s add a sweet spot of surface conditions to fruit near the most dense collection of mycelium and nutrients. Based on what I’ve seen the fruits produced here would have the advantage of short path nutrients and benefit from it so long as there exists enough hydration to maintain the growth. Brings to mind hydroponics. If supplied with continued hydration at an acceptable rate just how massive will the fruits get before entering their final phase to break veil?


Edited by Spaghettio73 (07/17/20 11:52 PM)


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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: Trichodingus]
    #26829970 - 07/17/20 11:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
I remember a while back somebody kept insisting that if you leave your spawn in chunks instead of breaking it up all the way then you’ll get huge clusters.

A few legit members disputed it and he never posted any pictures to try and prove it though.




Makes sense. What experience did the legitimate members bring to dispute his statement? I could see the benefit of spreading them out giving the advantage of reduced time to colonize and reduced contamination while creating a network for transport of water but the mycelium could also root out from the chunks like tree roots combining into a single unit. That said we can't ignore the fact that, barring outside influence, pinning will not begin until triggered by lack of unconquered substrate. But once pinning began it would make sense the pins closest to the clumps could cluster if the genetics would allow for such. Interesting thought.


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InvisibleInnerEternity
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26830156 - 07/18/20 04:14 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Nutrient proximity determines where the mycelium will grow the fruiting bodies, and it can also make some of them develop better than others. But their size is greatly influenced by the last stage of their development where cells inflate by absorbing water. Studies have shown that humidity is the most important growth factor at this stage.


Edited by InnerEternity (07/18/20 04:52 AM)


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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: InnerEternity]
    #26830162 - 07/18/20 04:27 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)



This is one of my favorites, I broke it into one cubic inch chunks of mycelium out of the jars and let them recolonize for a week or so.  Next time I'll use a scalpel but they seem to like being broken into hand sized chunks in my experience.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: w00tmycelium]
    #26830278 - 07/18/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You’d need a clone you’re familiar with and get consistent results from to know for sure.


I’ve certainly had lots of big fruits and clusters with grain embedded in the bottom but there’s so much of it that’s inevitable. Hard to tell if it’s causing the growth or was just in the way.

Really we’d need to know a lot more about how the mycelium network functions to know what would make a difference. I could see a huge nutrient deposit triggering extra growth above it, but it could just as easily be distributed everywhere.


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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: A.k.a]
    #26837016 - 07/21/20 08:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
You’d need a clone you’re familiar with and get consistent results from to know for sure.


I’ve certainly had lots of big fruits and clusters with grain embedded in the bottom but there’s so much of it that’s inevitable. Hard to tell if it’s causing the growth or was just in the way.

Really we’d need to know a lot more about how the mycelium network functions to know what would make a difference. I could see a huge nutrient deposit triggering extra growth above it, but it could just as easily be distributed everywhere.




Yeah I figured so. I have two strains that are just giving repeated results from a clone. Pitri to jar to flush times are within 12 hours and 70% synchronized across the sub. Problem there is my preoccupation with new spores.

This is all new and exciting so the lure of new varieties makes the follow through with Golden Teacher and PF Red Spore seem boring.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Correlation between fruit mass and nutrient proximity [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26837257 - 07/21/20 10:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I know the feeling. I’ve had such a constant flow of new prints coming in that I’ve barely done more than one run of each variety.

Just grow, print, grab a clone on a plate and move to the next one lol.


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