Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
OfflineMycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
The most effective sanitizer
    #26836556 - 07/21/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It seems to me that 70% isopropyl alcohol has been described as the premier sanitizer for this hobby as a general consensus from what I've seen on this forum, however after a bit of digging I'm wondering if diluted bleach would be better. It seems bleach is more effective but can be corrosive on metals and should not be used on bare skin as it can cause irritation.

I would also be interested in UVC light to clean tubs (
at the 9:50 mark) has anyone tried something like this? Seems to be working for them.

Also reading about h202 + vinegar, from what I've seen it's not as effective as diluted bleach. Any input or corrections would be more then welcome, thanks.


Sources:

https://ehs.stanford.edu/reference/comparing-different-disinfectants (bleach is better then isopropyl alcohol)

https://blog.gotopac.com/2017/05/15/why-is-70-isopropyl-alcohol-ipa-a-better-disinfectant-than-99-isopropanol-and-what-is-ipa-used-for/ (alcohol is not effective against fungus or spores, bleach is)

https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html#Alcohol


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: MycoWill]
    #26836696 - 07/21/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Bleach or UV for cleaning tubs is dicey and unnecessary. The issue is that they can cause the plastic to become brittle and / or porous. If the plastic becomes porous it can harbor bacteria. Furthermore, there's no need to kill the spores when washing a tub when a brush  with soap and warm water will wash off any that may be clinging to the inside.
Clean spawn is what will prevent contamination. Personally, if the tub didn't contam I just wipe it out with a damp rag.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: Rapjack]
    #26836769 - 07/21/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Soap and water are more than good enough for tubs. Soap is fantastic for that job.

Iso is good for gloves. It dries. And technique dictates sterility not the sanitizer you're using.

The best room temperature liquid sanitizer is peracetic acid based. Like san-o2-guard. POAA/PAA sanitizers. Totally unnecessary and also dangerous in concentrated form. Eats skin like movie acid.

Iodophors are really good sanitizers too.


--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemycologi.st
Stranger
Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 8
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26837177 - 07/21/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The CDC guide for chemical disinfectants provides a lot of useful information. Hypochlorites (such as bleach) are more effective than alcohol for many uses. Alcohol in particular isn't effective against bacterial spores.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePTreeDish
Male


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 353
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: MycoWill]
    #26837403 - 07/22/20 01:06 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

What problem are you trying to solve exactly, or were you just asking for learning purposes?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26837701 - 07/22/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PTreeDish said:
What problem are you trying to solve exactly, or were you just asking for learning purposes?




I'm trying to figure out what product I should be using to clean the different surfaces I run into in my daily tasks. What to use in my lab, my fruiting room, my mixing table, my tubs, my hands/gloves before harvest or lab work, ect to reduce contamination issues.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: Rapjack]
    #26837705 - 07/22/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rapjack said:
Bleach or UV for cleaning tubs is dicey and unnecessary. The issue is that they can cause the plastic to become brittle and / or porous. If the plastic becomes porous it can harbor bacteria. Furthermore, there's no need to kill the spores when washing a tub when a brush  with soap and warm water will wash off any that may be clinging to the inside.
Clean spawn is what will prevent contamination. Personally, if the tub didn't contam I just wipe it out with a damp rag.




And if it did contam? I keep hearing if you get trich it was most likely in the spawn, but I usually make 4 tubs from the same batch and when one gets trich bad and the other 3 don't, and go on to produce multiple clean flushes, it makes me think that there may have been something in that tub as thats the only difference between them. Is it possible some spores could be left behind after cleaning with soap and water? Or just unlikely enough where it can be ignored? Because that's what I do now and have had some isolated trich issues I'm trying to reduce.

When. You say bleach and UVC can cause plastic to become brittle, is that all plastic types?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: MycoWill]
    #26838190 - 07/22/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Could still be your sterile technique. Four tubs, you make twenty jars. Your hand slips and one gets hidden contams. The tub that gets that jar is the one that poops out.

Think about cleanliness like this, if you have a substrate with clean spawn in it which organism has the advantage? We have fully colonized myc that's alive and digesting, and we have mold spores that are basically dormant until the conditions are right. Who would win in a race? Have you ever seen anyone injecting a spore syringe into substrate and have that work? If spores could effectively colonize substrate we'd all skip making spawn. We also wouldn't be able to spawn in open air.

With the plastic, it depends. Tubs are made of PP5 typically which is neither resistant to bleach nor UV. I use Wikipedia when I have questions about other plastics.

For surfaces and whatnot I like diluted white vinegar. Kills mold, gentle enough that I don't have to worry and evaporates fully.



--------------------


Edited by Rapjack (07/22/20 12:23 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: Rapjack]
    #26838452 - 07/22/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rapjack said:
Could still be your sterile technique. Four tubs, you make twenty jars. Your hand slips and one gets hidden contams. The tub that gets that jar is the one that poops out.

Think about cleanliness like this, if you have a substrate with clean spawn in it which organism has the advantage? We have fully colonized myc that's alive and digesting, and we have mold spores that are basically dormant until the conditions are right. Who would win in a race? Have you ever seen anyone injecting a spore syringe into substrate and have that work? If spores could effectively colonize substrate we'd all skip making spawn. We also wouldn't be able to spawn in open air.

With the plastic, it depends. Tubs are made of PP5 typically which is neither resistant to bleach nor UV. I use Wikipedia when I have questions about other plastics.

For surfaces and whatnot I like diluted white vinegar. Kills mold, gentle enough that I don't have to worry and evaporates fully.







So I mix 5kg of coir in a tumbler, add 17L of boiling water. Tumble and let it sit till room temp. Then add 4 unicorn bags of spawn. Tumble again then load the tubs. Seems to me that if trich was in the spawn, all tubs would be affected, no?

Your comparison relies on trich spores being the same heartyness (for lack of a better word) as cubensis spores. I don't believe that to be the case from my observations.

Vinegar also seems to be less effective then bleach in every way from what I've read. It doesn't kill alot of things that bleach will. And quick evaporation isn't a good thing, is it? Contact time is need to kill certain organisms. That's one reason 90% ISO isn't as effective as 70%.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: MycoWill]
    #26838650 - 07/22/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That's assuming trich in your spawn is causing it, it might also be bacteria making the myc more prone to contamination in general, combined with what spores are in the air. When someone's getting trich the most likely cause is sterile technique. The only thing IME that I've seen cause mold in an otherwise healthy tub is fungus gnats. The places I've grown haven't been very great either, usually old apartments with a high sporeload to begin with. One TC (I forget who) puts his tubs next to a window for light, slightly open. He says he can see a large patch of trichoderma outside growing on the ground right in front of the window and it's not a problem.
You can try all the chemicals you want, I'm quite sure that's not what's going to fix the issue unless you have mold in your tumbler.


--------------------


Edited by Rapjack (07/22/20 03:51 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineNichrome
I'm a torso!
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 12/17/18
Posts: 6,487
Loc: Zone 5
Last seen: 3 minutes, 56 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: The most effective sanitizer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26858420 - 08/02/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Soap and water are more than good enough for tubs. Soap is fantastic for that job.

Iso is good for gloves. It dries. And technique dictates sterility not the sanitizer you're using.

The best room temperature liquid sanitizer is peracetic acid based. Like san-o2-guard. POAA/PAA sanitizers. Totally unnecessary and also dangerous in concentrated form. Eats skin like movie acid.

Iodophors are really good sanitizers too.




Said well.

Haven't used bleach or iso in 20+ years.


--------------------
Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.


Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Some words on effective sterilization ...
( 1 2 all )
blahblahblah 4,202 33 12/01/02 03:23 AM
by Hippie3
* Alcohol Extraction Revisited
( 1 2 all )
netrunner 18,291 26 04/05/20 08:49 AM
by trustintheblock
* Use of spices to inhibit bacterial growth in substrates?
( 1 2 all )
TaoinShrrom 9,409 35 04/04/04 12:24 AM
by mycoguy
* vitamins and substrate cdlove69 4,176 19 03/13/02 06:38 PM
by triptamine
* Mexicana A Sclerotia Substrates Anonymous 3,538 19 04/10/08 01:13 PM
by solumvita
* Flavored Substrate Fcuerkt 1,383 8 11/28/02 05:37 PM
by Shaw
* substrate change-->yield/potency increase
( 1 2 all )
gdr 9,444 28 01/18/03 02:00 PM
by deanofmean
* effect of phosphorus in substrate........................... ph_plus 3,058 6 07/12/03 01:10 AM
by micro

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
772 topic views. 0 members, 5 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.023 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 12 queries.