|
jcm4620
Stranger


Registered: 05/26/19
Posts: 6,700
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: coAsTal]
#26872917 - 08/10/20 09:12 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
when i talk about evaporating im talking about a very small anount of evaporation as a pinning trigger nothing more. nothing ever ever ever drys out
|
jcm4620
Stranger


Registered: 05/26/19
Posts: 6,700
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: jcm4620]
#26872919 - 08/10/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
lol well now u tell me im over here like wtf why dont he get wht im talkn about 😂😂
|
coAsTal
Friend


Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 2,970
Loc: 8a
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: jcm4620]
#26872921 - 08/10/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Haha, you guys
|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: jcm4620]
#26872966 - 08/10/20 09:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
jcm4620 said: when i talk about evaporating im talking about a very small anount of evaporation as a pinning trigger nothing more. nothing ever ever ever drys out
Yeah, and I think I should still knock down my RH a tiny bit next time. The whole point of me adding the misting timer (it's the box on the bottom of the picture below) was so I could encourage a tiny bit of evaporation for the pinning by setting the RH down to say 97% and add misting cycles, but I haven't been doing that. I will drop the RH to 97% next time and increase the misting cycles.

PS - By the way, for some stupid reason I have 7 of those digital timers that I used one for the controller box! I was cleaning stuff up and found them spread out deep through my electronic junk. I guess I kept forgetting I'd already bought them! That reminds me a an elderly friend of mine who died that I clean up his house after he passed. He'd have like 4 to 6 pairs of needle nose pliers or any tool because I guess he kept forgetting he already had a bunch of them. It was kind of sad but everyone who helped clean up got a nice set of nearly brand new tools out of it. Maybe that is my future too. I'll die and end up having 5 to 10 copies of everything! I hope not, but that's the way I'm headed it seems.
|
coAsTal
Friend


Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 2,970
Loc: 8a
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Blue Helix]
#26872969 - 08/10/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Let me send you my address to put some of your snazzy mush tek to good use, should the sad day ever come
|
jcm4620
Stranger


Registered: 05/26/19
Posts: 6,700
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: coAsTal]
#26873003 - 08/10/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
il die and all my friends can come pick thru what mushrooms they want lol😂😂😂
|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: jcm4620]
#26873190 - 08/10/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
jcm4620 said: il die and all my friends can come pick thru what mushrooms they want lol😂😂😂
It'll be in my private will.
|
gt40
I will proof smthng



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 502
Last seen: 8 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Blue Helix]
#26873867 - 08/10/20 06:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Blue Helix If we recalculate your LC volume per bag which is 140ml to LC volume per one tray, what will be the number? It's interesting how many ml were spent to fill up the whole grow)
|
Asura
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,047
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 10 days, 23 hours
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: gt40]
#26873873 - 08/10/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I *think* it's 140ml per bag and one bag is providing for multiple trays.
|
eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: gt40] 1
#26873875 - 08/10/20 06:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Blue helix, blast from the past. Glad you are still around!
|
jcm4620
Stranger


Registered: 05/26/19
Posts: 6,700
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: eatyualive]
#26873882 - 08/10/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
mr big cock himself droppin in lol i still cant get over that pic u posted earlier eat🤩🤩👍
|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Asura] 2
#26874017 - 08/10/20 08:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Asura said: I *think* it's 140ml per bag and one bag is providing for multiple trays.
Yes, jcm4620 is correct. I usually use 140 ml per one large spawn bag. The size spawn bag I use can handle up to 10 lbs of substrate, but if you put two 10-pounders in my AA921 pressure cooker, you have to run a full five hours and make sure the two bags have a space at least down the middle of the bags for steam penetration. It's probably a little better just using two 5-pound spawn bags, running the cooker for 4 hours, and inoculating each with 140 ml. Each tray takes about 2.5 pounds of substrate. So 10 lbs would lay 4 trays.
Does it even matter how much LC you use? That's a lot like asking if it matters how big the mycelium piece you use to inoculate agar. In other words, it doesn't matter really how much LC your use in the end. I'd try to get at least 60ml in a 5-pound bag, but if you could only get less, it just slows down the colonization is all. Hell five drops would probably eventually colonize through even. The key is to try to get the LC to drain down the bag sides and to the bottom of the bag by pulling the plastic away from the substrate during the injection. Then once you seal it all up with the hot glue, mix the bags well by kneading them. Again, using 5-pound bags makes the kneading a lot easier.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/11/20 02:53 AM)
|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: eatyualive]
#26874030 - 08/10/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eatyualive said: Blue helix, blast from the past. Glad you are still around! 
Hey, hi! I see you fruits are pretty excited! Nice! Yeah, it's been awhile, but I tend to come and then go for awhile. I've got a bunch of new stuff, though, thanks to Asura and jcm, so I'll be testing them out for awhile I think.
|
gt40
I will proof smthng



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 502
Last seen: 8 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Blue Helix]
#26874354 - 08/11/20 01:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Blue Helix said:
Quote:
Asura said: I *think* it's 140ml per bag and one bag is providing for multiple trays.
Yes, jcm4620 is correct. I usually use 140 ml per one large spawn bag. The size spawn bag I use can handle up to 10 lbs of substrate, but if you put two 10-pounders in my AA921 pressure cooker, you have to run a full five hours and make sure the two bags have a space at least down the middle of the bags for steam penetration. It's probably a little better just using two 5-pound spawn bags, running the cooker for 4 hours, and inoculating each with 140 ml.
Each 5 pounds of substrate can lay four 13"x9" glass trays at about 2" depth provided you are using my manure-based formula, which I recommend. For the grain-based one--which I don't recommend--the substrate is twice as dense, the yield half as much, and you can only really do 2 trays deep enough (I tried 3 and it was too shallow for full fruiting body development). Take home is to not use grain-based substrates without straw (either by adding the grain to the fruit out substrate or using excessive spawning ratios).
Jcm4620 has straw in his grain-based substrate mix, which lightens it up, so he probably is somewhere in between those two in terms of density (I'm guessing about three 13"x9" trays but I know he uses a different size than that).
Does it even matter how much LC you use? That's a lot like asking if it matters how big the mycelium piece you use to inoculate agar. In other words, it doesn't matter really how much LC your use in the end. I'd try to get at least 60ml in a 5-pound bag, but if you could only get less, it just slows down the colonization is all. Hell five drops would probably eventually colonize through even. The key is to try to get the LC to drain down the bag sides and to the bottom of the bag by pulling the plastic away from the substrate during the injection. Then once you seal it all up with the hot glue, mix the bags well by kneading them. Again, using 5-pound bags makes the kneading a lot easier.
Cool, thank you. It's curious because I'm back to LC and want to know how much I should prepare for same speed
Are you still mixing dry WBS with other hydrated stuff in bags? If yes it means you don't prepare WBS before putting it in bag at all? And generally speaking is it a neсessity to add grain in manure/verm mix with LC inoculation?
Edited by gt40 (08/11/20 01:43 AM)
|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: gt40]
#26874380 - 08/11/20 02:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
MAJOR CORRECTION OF A STUPID ERROR I MADE Wow, I just discovered something I had done wrong with my grain-based trays (which failed). I was claiming the recipe was twice as dense at the manure-based one. That is totally wrong. I made a stupid mistake. Each 13"x9" tray takes about 2.5 pounds of grain-based or manure-based substrate, period. The grain-based one is a little more dense but not much.
Because of this fact, I intend to compare side-by-side the grain-based substrate and the manure-based one. And all bad things I said about the grain-based substrate are incorrect or should be ignored. It was a simple math error. I will update the log when I have yield and potency comparison for the two substrates.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/11/20 03:35 AM)
|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: gt40]
#26874387 - 08/11/20 03:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Cool, thank you. It's curious because I'm back to LC and want to know how much I should prepare for same speed
Are you still mixing dry WBS with other hydrated stuff in bags? If yes it means you don't prepare WBS before putting it in bag at all? And generally speaking is it a neсessity to add grain in manure/verm mix with LC inoculation?
First, please see my update above. A 10-pound bag only does 4 trays, not 8. Also there is no evidence that once I fixed that error that the grain-based trays perform worse yet. Nor is the grain-based substrate as drastically different in terms of density as the manure-based one. I just made a big calculator mistake is all.
Yes, the formulae I presented (the grain-based on and manure-based one) both are using dry ingredients. There is no point to hydrating the grains in this case, and if you do so, you'll screw up the water content.
I am not sure how well the manure-based substrate would actually work without the grain. The reason is that the grains serve as a launching point for the mycelium. LC is much stronger than spores, but it still might inoculate just manure/verm fairly weakly. And so I cannot recommend it because I've not tried it.
PS - If you take out 10oz of dry grain, you must also take out 10oz of water. For any amount of grain you remove, remove an equal amount of water.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/11/20 03:41 AM)
|
Wall.E
Bacteria's Bitch



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Fungal Void
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Blue Helix]
#26874438 - 08/11/20 04:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Can I ask a stupid question in here?
I keep seeing, especially in this thread, everyone talk about liquid cultures. I'm new to mycology so I'm still learning but just wanted to get clarification i guess.
Is a lc just spores dropped into sugar water basically? Or do you turn agar pucks into a lc? I've also read that lc's can be fucky and contam quickly. But if that was the case then I cant imagine so many TC's are cool with it.
Sorry if this is too stupid this morning
-------------------- Life’s shit, but I’m loving it
|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Wall.E] 1
#26874513 - 08/11/20 06:55 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Myc_Hunt said: Can I ask a stupid question in here?
I keep seeing, especially in this thread, everyone talk about liquid cultures. I'm new to mycology so I'm still learning but just wanted to get clarification i guess.
Is a lc just spores dropped into sugar water basically? Or do you turn agar pucks into a lc? I've also read that lc's can be fucky and contam quickly. But if that was the case then I cant imagine so many TC's are cool with it.
Sorry if this is too stupid this morning
Hello. I am a big proponent of liquid cultures, which is why they are mentioned here. I like them because (a) there are less steps to growing than a typical spawn-based technique, (b) they seem to yield more on average, (c) thy are injection-based for the most part so one doesn't need a flow hood or still air box (SAB) much (if at all).
A liquid culture is created by making a 4% per weight sugar solution in a Kerr jar with a special kind of lid. The jar and sugar solution are sterilized. Spores, another LC, or an agar wedge are introduced into the jar as an inoculate. If you are getting spores from non-professional sources, you should probably run them on agar first. And usually spore water won't work into them either simply because the vendors send spore water in syringes that aren't properly capped (if I made you spore solution and sent it to you in a vacutainer, though, it would work fine). Some people continuously spin their LC with a Teflon magnet like I do. Others just wish it around every day a couple times. LCs take from 3 to 10 days to colonize to the point I'd use them usually, depending on a lot of factors.
LC are not "funky" at all nor do they contaminate any easier or more quickly than grain spawn does, and people who say that probably don't know what the heck they are even doing. Actually, another reason I like LCs is because they seldom go bad once established whereas agar plates do constantly (especially if you use those stupid Petri dishes people rave about and parafilm). On agar it is easier to spot contamination: it's on a flat (2D) surface and looks significantly different by color, shape, or growing style than target mycelium usually does. Further, on agar one can cut contamination away so you can use multiples agar plates to clean stuff up. Contamination in an LC usually has an unusual appearance too (cloudiness that never settles or extremely rapid mycelium that fills the jar in one or maybe two days rather than 4 or 5). In fact, for someone like me, I can tell contamination in an LC about as well as agar, but newbies won't be able to do that. Once an LC is contaminated--and it should never be in you follow my teks--unlike an agar dish it needs to be destroyed, though, because there is no saving a contaminated LC.
TCs are cool with LC-based techniques because they work better. Of course, not everyone would agree with that, but I'll challenge anyone to get the yields I do with spawn. It ain't gonna happen. In the grow this thread is about I got 3X the yield of a typical spawn run using the same amount of substrate at 320%. Also a LC can be stored as easily as any agar plate in a cheap vacutainer (special test tube with rubber cap) and is LESS likely to contaminate while in storage than agar (again, especially in the ridiculous Petri dishes that rely on parafilm usually to stop contamination and routinely contaminate around the margins due to their poor design).
Having said all that, any way you grow mushrooms is going to take dedication and attention to detail. There is no magic technique that both produces a lot of mushrooms and is easy enough to do almost sleeping. The easiest method is the PF Tek but the yields are very low (especially for the amount of effort it takes) and it only can fruit cubensis, not these much, much stronger little white/grey mushrooms.
For more information about LCs, please stop reading threads written by ignorant people that bash them and, instead, focus on my older threads that show amazing results using LCs. If you have questions about them, feel free to PM me, but make sure you do your homework first, please. Thanks!
Edited by Blue Helix (08/11/20 07:21 AM)
|
coAsTal
Friend


Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 2,970
Loc: 8a
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Blue Helix]
#26874529 - 08/11/20 07:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I'll reply to BH's most excellent post with the resources that he already posted that can be used to build proper LC lids and storage:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26843896#26843896
BH, my final component, the valves, finally arrived, so I'll be making my lids in the coming week.
So excited about starting my LC journey
-------------------- I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination-- John Keats Spore Trading List
|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: coAsTal]
#26874544 - 08/11/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
coAsTal said: I'll reply to BH's most excellent post with the resources that he already posted that can be used to build proper LC lids and storage:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26843896#26843896
BH, my final component, the valves, finally arrived, so I'll be making my lids in the coming week.
So excited about starting my LC journey 
Great news! Yeah, those LC lids rock! They are just so easy to use and work wonders. Remember to always make sure your filter is not clogged when sterilizing an LC. You should be able to blow air through it without much effort.
Most people start just swishing LCs periodically rather than continuously stir them with a Teflon-coated stir bar. How are you going to do it?
|
|