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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Mycostotle]
    #26851142 - 07/29/20 05:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

50/50 peat and med grade verm ph balanced to 7.5 with calcium carbonate👍


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OfflineMycostotle
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: jcm4620]
    #26852910 - 07/30/20 02:06 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jcm4620 said:
50/50 peat and med grade verm ph balanced to 7.5 with calcium carbonate👍



Was it pasteurized?


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: Mycostotle]
    #26852933 - 07/30/20 03:11 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

ya always


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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: jcm4620]
    #26852983 - 07/30/20 05:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jcm4620 said:
Also my total dry weight off the 2 trays was 163.grms





Ah, so 163 profound experiences, lol


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: Wall.E]
    #26852990 - 07/30/20 05:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

ya  i suppose that could be 😃 lol but its more like 71.5 really good times for me cuz i prefer 2.0 dry 😃😃👍


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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: jcm4620]
    #26853023 - 07/30/20 06:39 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I've only ever fucked with cubes. So I'm excited to get into pans. Hoping for a better experience


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: Wall.E] * 1
    #26853086 - 07/30/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Jcm what do your pans usually dry to?

The Jams were 95% water but the wild coast was closer to 90%.  Pleasantly surprised with 50% more weight than I expected.


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Edited by A.k.a (07/30/20 07:24 AM)


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: A.k.a]
    #26853102 - 07/30/20 07:49 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

ya mine usually are in about the 93-95% range


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Report [Re: coAsTal] * 1
    #26854310 - 07/30/20 07:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

coAsTal said:
As I wait for my Pan Jam print from jcm from the series you profile here, I'm really just posting because I  want to get in on this thread to monitor it's discussions.

BH, a fantastic log-- I told jcm I'm planning on initiating my grow this autumn after a move when I can dedicate some space to Pans and their environmental needs.

I know you said you didn't want to go into your LC methods here too much, but I'm in the midst of a history search of your posts to see how you roll that, because I love the idea of contained nock-ups and spawn-stage elimination. Always seemed like an un-needed doubling of the time required to get jiggy.
:cheers:
:threadmonitor:





Yes, it's unneeded.  Look, I got about 320% real biological efficiency using it.  I haven't seen anyone else even close to that growing these, so I know the methods work.  I know the substrate works.  That's without debate.

LC can be used to inoculate spawn or a substrate.  If it's used in a substrate, you have to include a little grain.  That is, it's terrible at inoculating pure straw, manure, or sawdust.  You have to include some grain or flour in there or else it'll die off.  If you do a search on this site or Mycotopia, you'll find other grow logs I did for it, including much more detailed insturctions on how to do it.  If you have specific questions, I'll answer them here, but the general process is simply making a liquid culture with the super cheap lids I posted about here.  That itself must be inoculated with either a CLEAN vendor-grade print or using agar on a hobbyist-grade print.  Hobbyist prints sometimes work too, but I would trust them.  So that's the BAD news - you have to use agar one time.  But as soon as you have a LC, you never have to touch the stuff again (or spawn for that matter).  The mycelium can be stored in full 4% sugar solution for about a year.  If you replace 95% or so of that sugar solution with water (thus making a very weak LC), you can store it for 10 years.  You never will have to return to annoying agar work again, and until this grow I hadn't touched the stuff in 15 years probably.  I was a little rusty even. 

The LC is injected into a tape-reinforced spawn bag with the final substrate in it.  You quickly cover the hole with hot glue.  The bag will colonize and then you can fruit it out normally.  That's about it in a nutshell.  It's not a "new" technique by any means.  Paul Stamets talked about liquid cultures very positively since probably the 70s.  And on YouTube there are probably 25 videos or more about them. 

But the old school spawn techniques--as required in profession farming--are still more commonly used simply because there is more written about them - not because they are better for small grows where you harvest say less than 50 pounds fresh.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: A.k.a] * 1
    #26854313 - 07/30/20 08:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Jcm what do your pans usually dry to?

The Jams were 95% water but the wild coast was closer to 90%.  Pleasantly surprised with 50% more weight than I expected.





No, pan cyans are NOT 95% water; they are 90% water just like cubes are.  Cambos are around 94.5% water.  That high water is the most direct way I know to tell the difference too.  If you got something that high in water, you are definitely not growing pan cyans; they are probably camobs if you know it or not (in fact these cambos had a higher water content than any other mushroom I've grown).  There isn't some strain difference that wide among pans cyans; water content is a species property, not strain within a species.  Just to repeat myself: this grow was for CAMBOS, not pan cyans.  That is obvious for a whole lot of reasons if you think about it, including the substantially lower potency of them, something you cannot tell without a controlled dose experiment.


Edited by Blue Helix (07/30/20 08:08 PM)


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26854322 - 07/30/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Cool I was shocked how much weight those jams lost when I dried them, same ones from jcm.

Sounds like they’re definitely cambo then, hopefully well get that confirmation soon.

So wild coast is a cyan right? Which you usually find to be more potent than cambo? I’m stoked to try these things.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: A.k.a] * 1
    #26854784 - 07/31/20 01:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Cool I was shocked how much weight those jams lost when I dried them, same ones from jcm.

Sounds like they’re definitely cambo then, hopefully well get that confirmation soon.

So wild coast is a cyan right? Which you usually find to be more potent than cambo? I’m stoked to try these things.




I believe wild coast is a true pan cyan.  If you want to know for sure, weigh them before and after drying.  If the ratio is around 1 to 10 you know for sure they are not cambos (although it could be panaeolus tropicalis but you'll need a microscope with a micrometer or PCR test to know that).  If the ratio is closer to 1 in 18, you got cambos because nothing else I know is that watery (this means the same weight dried of cambos yields roughly half the dry material as pan cyans). 

I did not find the jcm4620 specimens as strong as pan cyan, but it's been a long time since I took any mushrooms.  I need to do a new sample of pan cyans, and the next ones will be the red down under (which I'm told is actually tropicalis although I found it wicked strong, especially fresh in 2008 when I discovered the strain).  I'm also doing a tiny grain-heavy grow of jcm4620's cambos to see if that increases potency. 

Usually I don't like grain-heavy substrates because they just don't yield very well and sometimes even stunt growth (especially for pan cyans, which don't like tons of grain).  A good example of that was a very comparable grow of jcm4620s where I used my usual manure-light-grain substrate and jcm4620 used his usual grain-heavy mix.  My biological efficiency was 320%, the highest of any mushroom I've grown (but keep in mind they also contain a lot more water).  Jcm4620's growing the exact same culture was around 160%, roughly half mine (although that is still unbelievably good).  I think the difference is because cambos are so watery that they really benefit from the more manure and vermiculite (in my mix), which both hold a lot more water than grain or straw (in jcm4620's mix).  But even if it yields half on a grain-heavy mix but is twice as potent on grain it'll be a worthwhile option, and I'll report back on that later in this thread what I find out either way.

Here are those RDU.  Aren't they beautiful!  I just loved them, and 10g fresh knocked me out almost and I went crazy.  They were very strong fresh.  I should have taken half that.



Edited by Blue Helix (07/31/20 02:00 AM)


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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26854843 - 07/31/20 03:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

my pan jams from asura were very wet. 131g wet dried to like 8.2g. I was so bummed haha... so you think those were cambos bh?


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: c10h12n2o] * 1
    #26854909 - 07/31/20 05:58 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

no ive grown those to c10 and they were 100% cyans👍👍👍


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: jcm4620] * 1
    #26854919 - 07/31/20 06:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

c10 these are asuras jams and i have these too but these are not my  grows these are asuras grows im just using them to show they are 100% a cyan and u can tell just by lookin at these unlike with my culture from another source they look like both cyan and cambo at times. but asuras are 100% cyans and im sure if u grew from his print they looked more like these than mine and blues



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Edited by jcm4620 (07/31/20 06:08 AM)


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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26855022 - 07/31/20 08:06 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
my pan jams from asura were very wet. 131g wet dried to like 8.2g. I was so bummed haha... so you think those were cambos bh?




There are ways to grow mushrooms that cause them to be excessively wet.  Almost any mushroom can become water-logged, even cubes.  Weird practices where the casing is super wet or they are misted during growing can cause that.  I sort of don't include that in my assessments of mushrooms.  I know that's a big fat fad right now to make casings overly wet (these fads come and go just like overly-complex substrates come and go; I learned to ignore them).  If you do that or grow at 100% RH, all bets are off.  Just grow them normally the way they've been grown for a 100 years and measure their wet-to-dry ratio (cut back the moisture a little as they mature like you should be doing).

In my case, a heavy flush usually dries out he casing pretty well.  If you are seeing it still real wet after a heavy flush, that's not a good sign.  And if you see that, I don't think you can make a great statement about the real water to dry ratio.


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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #26855032 - 07/31/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
my pan jams from asura were very wet. 131g wet dried to like 8.2g. I was so bummed haha... so you think those were cambos bh?




Do you happen to have a picture of them?  I can check for deformity like overly stringy or wet looking.


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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: jcm4620]
    #26855036 - 07/31/20 08:12 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jcm4620 said:
c10 these are asuras jams and i have these too but these are not my  grows these are asuras grows im just using them to show they are 100% a cyan and u can tell just by lookin at these unlike with my culture from another source they look like both cyan and cambo at times. but asuras are 100% cyans and im sure if u grew from his print they looked more like these than mine and blues






Those are much bigger and bell shaped caps, that’s the cyan look right? The jams I got from you that are in my signature had much flatter frisbee kinda shaped caps. I figured it was a pheno thing but the smaller flatter caps are a cambo trait?


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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: jcm4620]
    #26855046 - 07/31/20 08:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jcm4620 said:
c10 these are asuras jams and i have these too but these are not my  grows these are asuras grows im just using them to show they are 100% a cyan and u can tell just by lookin at these unlike with my culture from another source they look like both cyan and cambo at times. but asuras are 100% cyans and im sure if u grew from his print they looked more like these than mine and blues






These definitely do not look like the cambos I've grown.  They have the shape and proportions of a normal pan cyan.  They look like they would yield about 70% as a pan cyan does.  I'd be surprised if they had 94% water.  Interesting.


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Panaeolus Grow Log Reportf we eerrr we're jjh he [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26855072 - 07/31/20 08:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

ya like i said u can look at those and know 100% for sure they r a cyan. unlike mine where i have times i see both. it will b nice when the final verdict comes in for sure but im also leaning more twd mine being cambo


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