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christopera
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902119 - 08/27/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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People keep showing that grainy shot with a knife beside it, but the police say he was unarmed.
It looks to me like he's carrying car keys, and because he's walking to his car, it would make sense.
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26902121 - 08/27/20 11:02 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here is the video but the timestamp is at 16 seconds. (I don't think I can timestamp here.) I've watched this one second motion almost 50 times now. He's reaches, with a thrust, into his vehicle for something before getting shot. The cops literally showed perfect restraint until the REACH. this includes the physical altercations they got into prior to this happening.
Edited by Vahn421 (08/27/20 11:03 AM)
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qman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902129 - 08/27/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
Obviously, shooting someone resisting arrest isn't acceptable so alternative methods are going to be needed in the future.
It has to be acceptable at times. We can't escape this reality.
Yes, but they're going to have to be very selective. Do you know what reduces interactions that go bad? The reduction of interactions in general. The police need to stop with the constant harassment of people for no lawful reason.
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman] 1
#26902139 - 08/27/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you know what reduces interactions that go bad?
Compliance.
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902140 - 08/27/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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And in this case, the cops were called to the scene by the woman, I believe.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902143 - 08/27/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:

That's inconclusive and just further example of your confirmation bias.
Story doesn't add up. If he had a knife in hand already, why was "reaching into the vehicle" that act that made him a threat? Why did the police try to pull a man holding a knife out of the vehicle first, and then shoot him in the back afterwards?
Official police statement doesn't even agree with you: "Kaul did not describe the knife or say whether it had anything to do with why the officer, a seven-year veteran of the Kenosha police department identified as Rusten Sheskey, had opened fire on Blake." If police could produce the knife in your picture, you can be damn sure it would be used as justification - but it's not. Source
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26902144 - 08/27/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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We don't know what happened completely. I'm just painting a picture with what we do know. I'd like to know more, honestly.
What I do know is what cops die when they allow someone to reach into their vehicle after resisting arrest. It's time to fire. Just watch the video on the last page of what happens when you don't shoot.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902150 - 08/27/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: Here is the video but the timestamp is at 16 seconds. (I don't think I can timestamp here.) I've watched this one second motion almost 50 times now. He's reaches, with a thrust, into his vehicle for something before getting shot. The cops literally showed perfect restraint until the REACH. this includes the physical altercations they got into prior to this happening.
I see a person stepping into a vehicle.
Besides, if you are claiming that Jacob Blake was already in possession of a knife, why was reaching into his vehicle the justification for shooting him in the back? Only one knife was recovered so you can't have it both ways.
You're just throwing out every justification you can and not even taking the time to consider whether your justifications are consistent with themselves.
So what was it? Was he holding a knife or reaching for a weapon?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902157 - 08/27/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: We don't know what happened completely. I'm just painting a picture with what we do know. I'd like to know more, honestly.
What I do know is what cops die when they allow someone to reach into their vehicle after resisting arrest. It's time to fire. Just watch the video on the last page of what happens when you don't shoot.
Every picture you paint consistently favours violent authoritarianism.
Cops choose to take their job. Innocent cops should get shot before innocent civilians get shot. If they don't like that, then don't take the job.
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26902161 - 08/27/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, he's clearly not trying to step into his vehicle. The body language makes that crystal clear.
And to answer your question, I don't know, dude. I know we have something in his hand that looks like a knife and I know the cops said there was a knife on the floor. I'm not saying any of this is absolute, they are more or less clues to try to figure this out.
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26902170 - 08/27/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: We don't know what happened completely. I'm just painting a picture with what we do know. I'd like to know more, honestly.
What I do know is what cops die when they allow someone to reach into their vehicle after resisting arrest. It's time to fire. Just watch the video on the last page of what happens when you don't shoot.
Every picture you paint consistently favours violent authoritarianism.
Cops choose to take their job. Innocent cops should get shot before innocent civilians get shot. If they don't like that, then don't take the job.
I'm not an authoritarian, I'm a realist. This world is a fucking jungle, it's not Sesame Street.
We have to have real solution grounded in reality that deal with these problems. Ideological propositions like, "Cops should never have to shoot someone when detaining" like Qman somewhat proposed, just don't fly in the real world.
It's the same with someone reaching into their vehicle. If you have a warrant out for your arrest, guns pointed out you, you got into a physical altercation with police and now you're trying to walk away AND you're reaching, don't cry when you get shot. It's your own fault.
The previous video I posted shows exactly what happens if you let them reach. No sane person is going to let someone reach.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/27/20 11:25 AM)
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koods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902173 - 08/27/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: I think they wanted to exercise as much restraint as possible until they were worried a weapon was involved.
Kyle Rittenhouse had just murdered two people and walked directly at an entire battalion of cops with a gun strapped around his neck while repeatedly touching it. They exercised so much restraint he got to drive home.
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods] 1
#26902174 - 08/27/20 11:26 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: I think they wanted to exercise as much restraint as possible until they were worried a weapon was involved.
Kyle Rittenhouse had just murdered two people and walked directly at an entire battalion of cops with a gun strapped around his neck while repeatedly touching it. They exercised so much restraint he got to drive home.
They didn't fucking see him do it, dude. How hard is this?
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26902176 - 08/27/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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And furthermore, are you really naive enough to believe he would have resisted arrest HAD they seen it and taken him in right there? He was ready to be taken in the moment he got up off the ground after the second shooting.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26902178 - 08/27/20 11:28 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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No the body language doesn't make it crystal clear. Earlier you couldn't tell the difference between a molotov cocktail and a plastic bag - don't be so confident in your video analysis.
Louder for those in the back:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: Let me answer this question directly one more time for the record and that is I usually let a lot of videos stand alone at face value if it's apparent to me the people in them are not actors. (This really is not hard to tell.) The most examination I did on PV was due to you, actually, and I found that after examining PV it did not change how I felt about the content of the videos. I either liked them or I did not, as I can usually spot deceptive editing on the spot anyway. I can usually tell when someone is being misrepresented or being portrayed honestly.
"Naturally, the educated man does not believe in propaganda; he shrugs and is convinced that propaganda has no effect on him. This is, in fact, one of his great weaknesses, and propagandists are well aware that in order to reach someone, one must first convince him that propaganda is ineffectual and not very clever. Because he is convinced of his own superiority, the intellectual is much more vulnerable than anybody else to this maneuver, even though basically a high intelligence, and full and objective information are still the best weapons against propaganda." - Jacques Ellul, 'Propaganda: The Formation Of Men's Attitudes'
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26902198 - 08/27/20 11:40 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wanted to do a longer post on this, but I'll just link this video here for now.
Someone either edited the fire in or edited the fire out, I don't know which. I'm going to dig a little while longer, as now that I'm aware there are two videos, obviously one is fake.
When I grabbed and posted a video on this here, I thought they were all the same. Clearly they are not. I should have double-checked the one I posted better. I just thought the angle may have been different.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/27/20 11:44 AM)
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902201 - 08/27/20 11:42 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Let me answer this question directly one more time for the record and that is I usually let a lot of videos stand alone at face value if it's apparent to me the people in them are not actors. (This really is not hard to tell.) The most examination I did on PV was due to you, actually, and I found that after examining PV it did not change how I felt about the content of the videos. I either liked them or I did not, as I can usually spot deceptive editing on the spot anyway. I can usually tell when someone is being misrepresented or being portrayed honestly.
I should have added a contingency to my own statement that I meant to say "deceptive editing regarding taking someone's words out of context." I didn't mean to imply I can tell fake footage from real footage every time... obviously people have gotten really good at this shit.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/27/20 11:42 AM)
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26902211 - 08/27/20 11:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: I wanted to do a longer post on this, but I'll just link this video here for now.
Someone either edited the fire in or edited the fire out, I don't know which. I'm going to dig a little while longer, as now that I'm aware there are two videos, obviously one is fake.
When I grabbed and posted a video on this here, I thought they were all the same. Clearly they are not. I should have double-checked the one I posted better. I just thought the angle may have been different.
That's a backlit plastic grocery bag - not fire. Pause the video, zoom in. Post the image here.
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26902219 - 08/27/20 11:56 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: I wanted to do a longer post on this, but I'll just link this video here for now.
Someone either edited the fire in or edited the fire out, I don't know which. I'm going to dig a little while longer, as now that I'm aware there are two videos, obviously one is fake.
When I grabbed and posted a video on this here, I thought they were all the same. Clearly they are not. I should have double-checked the one I posted better. I just thought the angle may have been different.
That's a backlit plastic grocery bag - not fire. Pause the video, zoom in. Post the image here.
Are you certain? What if it was just a shitty failed molotov that was thrown in a bag for extra sling momentum... but let's assume you are right. What was in the bag? Why did it travel like a rock instead of a bag? Why was it thrown at Kyle? (The answer to the last question is: most likely to cause bodily harm.)
This below is a great video from two different angles. The thing that strikes me most about this is Kyle doesn't flee the scene right away. He picks up his phone to call someone and tell them he just shot someone first. You can also see how aggressive this other idiot was toward Kyle. Even after the first shot missed (Kyle may have missed the first time intentionally to scare him), this guy just kept charging him. In fact, this guy was chasing him in the first place... for what reason?
The more I see, the more I'm convinced of self-defense, actually. My opinion keeps changing in real time with every new piece of info I'm seeing. This guy was ready to jump on Kyle.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/27/20 11:58 AM)
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Vahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26902231 - 08/27/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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So to recap:
-Kyle is being chased by a guy who clearly wants to cause bodily harm to him.
-He gets an object thrown at him that misses.
-He (likely) fires a warning shot at the guy that keeps chasing him and it misses. (EDIT: It was actually more likely someone else shot first and the first shot wasn't Kyle's. Kyle was still running and had his back turned when the first shot came out.)
-The guy shouts, "fuck you!" and charges Kyle after the first shot goes off. Kyle then turns and shoots several times, this time hitting the aggressor, then backs off.
-Kyle runs back to confirm that he indeed shot someone and perhaps where they were shot and he then calls someone to inform them of the fact (not hiding his actions), and runs toward the police.
-He trips along the way and a mob descends on him. He fires his gun once again to protect his life from these people. One of the individuals who descended on him, the one that lost a chunk of his arm, was also holding a gun when he rushed Kyle.
-Kyle gets up and runs directly to the cops with his hands in the air.
I see no murderer here. I see a man in self-defense. All the footage reveals it.
(We can argue he is still a criminal for being underage and crossing the border with a firearm he should not have had, however.)
EDIT: I also admit I have a hard time having sympathy for morons like the first guy that got shot. Why the fuck are you chasing a boy with a gun in the first place? Do you have a death wish? (Probably.)
Edited by Vahn421 (08/27/20 12:17 PM)
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