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Billy Ray
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 754
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods] 1
#26893130 - 08/22/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I never said you did
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



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Loc: Portland
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Brian Jones]
#26893139 - 08/22/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Eminence said: Quote:
koods said: Antifa is terrible and I hope all 12 members are punished for their crimes of setting trash cans on fire and yelling mean things to people in their suburban neighborhoods
And extorting businesses, and burning them down, and falsely imprisoning people, and beating and killing people? 12? Why do you say stuff like this when we both know you're bullshitting? There's wayy more of them than whoever you're considering to be "alt right" people. But there might be an increase in some actual alt right supporters if Antifa and BLM continue what they do.
Which side has killed more? I'm not asking because I think I already know the answer. I just wonder if there is evidence out there for this question.
In the period of time the riots have existed, more black people have died directly or indirectly due to the rioting than there have been police shootings, including children... something cops pretty much never do.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26893160 - 08/22/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Source ?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Billy Ray
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 754
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
#26893900 - 08/22/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This article is from June and states 14 unarmed black people were killed by police in 2019 and 14 black people were killed directly or indirectly because of the riots. The end of this article says not all of the deaths are directly linked to the protests. 6 are “unrelated or under investigation.” Take what you will from that.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-more-black-people-killed-police-than-floyd-protests/5323116002/
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Billy Ray]
#26893930 - 08/22/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
states 14 unarmed black people were killed by police in 2019
Dude theres 1 black person killed by the gov't every 28 hours or so. They are not all armed.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Billy Ray
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 754
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Asante]
#26893938 - 08/22/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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We aren’t talking about the government.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Billy Ray] 1
#26893997 - 08/22/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Note that both Billy Ray and Vahn421 specifically state "directly and indirectly" when tallying up the number of deaths they blame on the Minneapolis uprising. Wtf does "indirectly killed" mean? Let's check the article Billy Ray just supplied for some clarification:
Quote:
It's important to note that not all of the reported deaths happened at or during protests. Some of the deaths occurred in the same cities as protests or while protests were happening, but they did not occur at the site of those protests.
[...]
Of the 14 Black people killed, six were either not directly involved in protests, were killed after protests took place or the death's relation to protests is under investigation.
Basically when they say "indirectly killed" they mean 'any black person who was killed anywhere in a city that was also seeing protests'. They cast the net wide - and also, I want to note, significantly narrow the net for police murder by only considering those who were unarmed and directly killed - and even after that imbalanced approach, they still arrive at 14 deaths on both sides - and somehow still conclude that the protests are worse than police violence.
Hmmm, I wonder what would happen to those numbers if we decided to include all those indirectly killed by cops too. For examine, people like Kalief Browder who commit suicide in response to their inhumane and abusive treatment by the pigs in blue.
"People tell me because I have this case against the city I'm all right. But I'm not all right. I'm messed up. I know that I might see some money from this case, but that's not going to help me mentally. I'm mentally scarred right now. That's how I feel. Because there are certain things that changed about me and they might not go back. Before I went to jail, I didn't know about a lot of stuff, and, now that I'm aware, I'm paranoid. I feel like I was robbed of my happiness." - Kalief Browder
Study Links Solitary Confinement to Increased Risk of Death After Release
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Edited by shivas.wisdom (08/22/20 06:00 PM)
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Billy Ray
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 754
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26894014 - 08/22/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Let’s say the 6 indirect/under investigation deaths don’t count. Ok, the number of black people killed 6-8 weeks ago during the riots is 8. We will have more data soon. Do you really think there hasn’t been anymore death in those 6-8 weeks?
Even if it’s 8 black people killed during these riots, I thought black lives matter? Where’s the outrage for this black life lost?
Edited by Billy Ray (08/22/20 06:26 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Billy Ray]
#26894057 - 08/22/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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We can break it down even further - let's look at those eight deaths:
1 was a protester killed by a white bar owner (James Scurlock) 1 was a business owner killed by police (David McAtee) 1 was a father killed in an attempted robbery while going to pick his son up at the protest (Marvin Francois) 2 were protesters hit and killed by vehicles (Barry Perkins III and Robert Forbes)
- 1 of those was a vehicular terrorist attack by a fascist
That's 5 of your remaining "8 black people killed during these riots" that you blame on the protests - what a joke - you're clearly grasping at straws attempting to demonize a movement you don't like.
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Billy Ray
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 754
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26894084 - 08/22/20 06:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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No I’m not. Koods asked for a source and I gave him one. I don’t support senseless violence while destroying cities and livelihoods.
Let’s assume those 5 deaths were unjust and take them out of this conversation. There’s still 3 black deaths because of these protests, which begs the question...Why don’t these black lives matter to you and your movement?
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Billy Ray]
#26894092 - 08/22/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Who said they don't matter?
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Billy Ray
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 754
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26894095 - 08/22/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Where’s the protests or statements about them from BLM?
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Billy Ray]
#26894101 - 08/22/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I dunno - you're the one claiming that these deaths don't matter to BLM - have you looked for a response from BLM?
Have there been protests and statements from BLM every other time a black person has been killed that makes you question whether these three deaths matter too?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
#26894109 - 08/22/20 07:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Eminence said: Quote:
koods said: Antifa is terrible and I hope all 12 members are punished for their crimes of setting trash cans on fire and yelling mean things to people in their suburban neighborhoods
And extorting businesses, and burning them down, and falsely imprisoning people, and beating and killing people? 12? Why do you say stuff like this when we both know you're bullshitting? There's wayy more of them than whoever you're considering to be "alt right" people. But there might be an increase in some actual alt right supporters if Antifa and BLM continue what they do.
Which side has killed more? I'm not asking because I think I already know the answer. I just wonder if there is evidence out there for this question.
In the period of time the riots have existed, more black people have died directly or indirectly due to the rioting than there have been police shootings, including children... something cops pretty much never do. 
Hundreds of people have been killed by the police since the end of May. The police kill an average of four people a day in the US.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 32 seconds
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26894118 - 08/22/20 07:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: We can break it down even further - let's look at those eight deaths:
1 was a protester killed by a white bar owner (James Scurlock) 1 was a business owner killed by police (David McAtee) 1 was a father killed in an attempted robbery while going to pick his son up at the protest (Marvin Francois) 2 were protesters hit and killed by vehicles (Barry Perkins III and Robert Forbes)
- 1 of those was a vehicular terrorist attack by a fascist
That's 5 of your remaining "8 black people killed during these riots" that you blame on the protests - what a joke - you're clearly grasping at straws attempting to demonize a movement you don't like.
One of them was killed by cops as well
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
Loc: Turtle Island
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
#26894137 - 08/22/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yea sure they may have been directly killed by the police but it's still indirectly the fault of the protesters for having the nerve to protest police murder.
It would be laughable if this propaganda wasn't convincing people to lick boots and drive their vehicles into crowds of protesters.
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Billy Ray
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 754
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26894149 - 08/22/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: I dunno - you're the one claiming that these deaths don't matter to BLM - have you looked for a response from BLM?
Have there been protests and statements from BLM every other time a black person has been killed that makes you question whether these three deaths matter too?
I’m not claiming they don’t matter. I believe all lives matter. You’re the one that said “you’re grasping at straws” because I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on the other 11 deaths that were in that article.
According to you, 3 black people killed is nothing more than grasping at straws.
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shivas.wisdom
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Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Billy Ray]
#26894185 - 08/22/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on the other 11 black deaths that were in that article.
I think you mean: '11 of the 14 black deaths were so tangentially connected to the protests that I had no defence once it was explicitly pointed out.'
Nowhere have I said that those three lives don't matter. You're grasping at straws because you (or the source you provided in defence of Vahn421's claim) included things as nonsensical as police murder in your 'killed by the protests' category instead of your 'killed by police' category, in order to build up the numbers required to say "more black people have died directly or indirectly due to the rioting than there have been police shootings."
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Billy Ray
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 754
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26894213 - 08/22/20 08:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That’s not what I mean. For the sake of argument, I gave you that part of it. Then you said 3 black deaths is grasping at straws.
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qman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Billy Ray] 1
#26894288 - 08/22/20 08:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Billy Ray said: Let’s say the 6 indirect/under investigation deaths don’t count. Ok, the number of black people killed 6-8 weeks ago during the riots is 8. We will have more data soon. Do you really think there hasn’t been anymore death in those 6-8 weeks?
Even if it’s 8 black people killed during these riots, I thought black lives matter? Where’s the outrage for this black life lost?
I don't think getting injured or potentially killed during a protest/riot makes the cause any less worthy. Yes, protesting on the streets against The Establishment is never a perfectly safe practice, but that doesn't mean that it should be stopped because it's potentially dangerous.
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