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Offlineqman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26836179 - 07/21/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

What happens to drug lords/gangs when there's no drug prohibition?




You're welcome to go to any third world country where drug arrests a rarely if even enforced and see for yourself.

The status of the criminality of drugs doesn't matter when lawlessness reigns. Drug lords still come out on top. I'm not making a moral argument, I'm stating this matter-of-fact. Anything that isn't a drug lord is an organized community with "law" enforcement. You have leaders in power who play by rules and those who don't, that's pretty much it.




You do realize that third world nations and their drug lords are not ultimately funded by their domestic markets, but by the US illegal drug market?  As long as the US (and most first world nations) has drug prohibition, most third world nation drug lords will exist regardless the legality in their own nation.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26836182 - 07/21/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Infiltrators who have released videos of the things Antifa leadership have proclaimed as their goals would empirically disagree with you.




Oh please do tell me who Antifa leadership is. I've been looking for them.




Let's not buy into Antifa's bullshit tripe about having "no leaders." There are leaders and followers, planners and participaters.

With anonymous leadership, it's only THAT much easier for people with insidious agendas to infiltrate it. This is the human condition 101.




The ability for anyone to claim they’re antifa leadership is just proof that there’s such a thing as antifa leadership


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26836184 - 07/21/20 02:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

What happens to drug lords/gangs when there's no drug prohibition?




You're welcome to go to any third world country where drug arrests a rarely if even enforced and see for yourself.

The status of the criminality of drugs doesn't matter when lawlessness reigns. Drug lords still come out on top. I'm not making a moral argument, I'm stating this matter-of-fact. Anything that isn't a drug lord is an organized community with "law" enforcement. You have leaders in power who play by rules and those who don't, that's pretty much it.




You do realize that third world nations and their drug lords are not ultimately funded by their domestic markets, but by the US illegal drug market?  As long as the US (and most first world nations) has drug prohibition, most third world nation drug lords will exist regardless the legality in their own nation.




Not to mention the dark money the CIA itself generates from the drug trade


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26836187 - 07/21/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I'm beginning to recognize that people that aren't well versed in emotional intelligence, rationalism, psychology, philosophy and history really don't have anything useful to contribute to these discussions.




Welcome to the club, pal.  Most of us have known that for some time which is why ignorant ranting is generally derided by all parties around here.  Another thing you're beginning to recognize, I'm sure.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26836188 - 07/21/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Infiltrators who have released videos of the things Antifa leadership have proclaimed as their goals would empirically disagree with you.




Oh please do tell me who Antifa leadership is. I've been looking for them.




You don't think any form of leadership exists in even local sections of Antifa?  It's a natural part of human systems, what would make Antifa exempt from that outcome?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26836203 - 07/21/20 02:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I doubt that anyone would argue that no informal hierarchy exists among individual activists but this is fundamentally different from the sort of centralization that is generally the hallmark of what most people refer to as leadership.


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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26836229 - 07/21/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Infiltrators who have released videos of the things Antifa leadership have proclaimed as their goals would empirically disagree with you.




Oh please do tell me who Antifa leadership is. I've been looking for them.




You don't think any form of leadership exists in even local sections of Antifa?  It's a natural part of human systems, what would make Antifa exempt from that outcome?




Yeah, I agree that some sort of "leadership" exists, just like when you and your friends decide to go to the bar one night, someone likely "led" the group there.

I would not call that "Leadership of Antifa", however. BLM has three distinct co-leaders that largely organize the movement. Antifa is just a bunch of random people annoyed that DHS, ICE, and CBP showed up in their neighborhoods and started disappearing people. Among other fascist things that seem to happen in Trump's America.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26836266 - 07/21/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

What happens to drug lords/gangs when there's no drug prohibition?




You're welcome to go to any third world country where drug arrests a rarely if even enforced and see for yourself.

The status of the criminality of drugs doesn't matter when lawlessness reigns. Drug lords still come out on top. I'm not making a moral argument, I'm stating this matter-of-fact. Anything that isn't a drug lord is an organized community with "law" enforcement. You have leaders in power who play by rules and those who don't, that's pretty much it.




You do realize that third world nations and their drug lords are not ultimately funded by their domestic markets, but by the US illegal drug market?  As long as the US (and most first world nations) has drug prohibition, most third world nation drug lords will exist regardless the legality in their own nation.





Well, I gave you my best shot at answering the question. I'd ask you to answer it yourself now. What happens to drug lords/gangs when there's no drug prohibition?

This is interestingly enough a slight distraction from the larger point. In a society without law,  some powerful faction, likely a faction of brutes who uses power as "law" rises to the top in the absence of actual organized law.

"Cooperation" without a power structure to enforce rules can only be found in small groups of people, never city like populations.

This is why I don't understand Antifa's goals. Their world of, "equality" really amounts to nothing more than tyranny. Not everyone likes them and wants to play their way but they want to force every knee to bend to their ideology.

IDGAF what your ideology is as long as it doesn't involve forcing me to believe in it. It's why I hated fundamentalist Christians and it's why I now hate Antifa. The two groups have way more in common than they'd ever admit. (ego.)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26836272 - 07/21/20 02:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I doubt that anyone would argue that no informal hierarchy exists among individual activists but this is fundamentally different from the sort of centralization that is generally the hallmark of what most people refer to as leadership.




Leadership once chosen usually sticks, even if its informal or anonymous.

And as I said before, anonymous leadership is much easier to infiltrate with an agenda. Every system on planet Earth that has more than a few hundred humans inevitably corrupts to some degree. Antifa has millions and is full of emotionally charged people who think not like individuals, but like a mob.

They are, in fact, the weakest among us as individuals. That is precisely why they run in mobs.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26836278 - 07/21/20 03:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You are making things up about Antifa‘s goals as a “group” because as it’s been repeatedly pointed out, “they” as a group hardly exist. This is also the precise reason why you don’t under their goals.


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Edited by christopera (07/21/20 03:03 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: christopera]
    #26836289 - 07/21/20 03:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
You are making things up about Antifa‘s goals as a “group” because as it’s been repeatedly pointed out, “they” as a group hardly exist. This is also the precise reason why you don’t under their goals.





My ex-girlfriend of 5 year's brother (now a trans-woman) was a member of Antifa and a major activist and leader.

I got a reeeeeeal good peek on the inside.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26836292 - 07/21/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Can we see a copy of the membership card?


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: christopera]
    #26836340 - 07/21/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You have to pass their super secret advanced training before you get a membership card. (The comments on this video are GOLD.)



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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26836401 - 07/21/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
My ex-girlfriend of 5 year's...





There it is.

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
You have to pass their super secret advanced training before you get a membership card.




How many breakfast cereals do they make you name before they'll let you into the inner circle?


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26836408 - 07/21/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Asking why some drug lords manage to run an operation with law enforcement present is like asking why murder still exists with law enforcement present, or why theft or rape still exists with law enforcement present.

Because it does. Because it's not going anywhere. Because no amount of rules is going to make the shitty segment of society magically disappear. It exists. It will always exist.

No cops = rise of all kinds of crime and consolidation of power among crime bosses. The most powerful crime bosses almost without exception are drug lords. :shrug:



You haven't proven your assertions at all. Not even attempted.

I'm not arguing that crime wasn't completely eliminated by law enforcement, I'm arguing that prohibition had a well-documented direct causal relationship to the rise in organized crime that followed. That observation on its own is enough to cast doubt on your initial assertion that 'no cops = drug lords rise' because in that case, more cops = drug lords rise.

Your second assertion is a familiar one from you, "no cops = rise in all kinds of crime and consolidation of power among crime bosses", and is similarly unsupported. All it takes is one anecdotal observation to the contrary and this assertion is similarly cast away into the waters of doubts. A single anecdotal observation like the Greek neighbourhood of Exarchia, for example. In fact, this no-cop zone has consistently provided a much better standard of life to the poorest of Greece than their own government offers.

It's no coincidence that the police over there speak to your right-wing wet dream when they use petty street dealing as an excuse for their authoritarian crackdowns on the neighbourhood. From the anarchists of Exarchia to the indigenous Zapatistas of Chiapas, organized drug dealing has consistently been used as an excuse by the state to crack down on revolutionary movements. Ignoring for the moment how often people who hold state authority have been implicated in organized drug dealing, I have to seriously doubt your claimed anti-prohibition stance if you would still prefer to see drug prohibition used as a tool of political repression.

Besides, the most powerful crime bosses weren't drug lords, they were the rulers of corrupt states. And how are you so certain that your current rulers aren't just the result of "consolidation of power among crime bosses"?



Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Infiltrators who have released videos of the things Antifa leadership have proclaimed as their goals would empirically disagree with you.

Considering how much of an insider you claim to be, I'm still trying to figure out if you're just THAT blind or actually Satan incarnate, Shiva.



Please, do share this empirical video evidence infiltrators of Antifa™  have released.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26836428 - 07/21/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Your second assertion is a familiar one from you, "no cops = rise in all kinds of crime and consolidation of power among crime bosses", and is similarly unsupported.




My assertion is that no law-enforcement = more crime, yes. Especially with America. Especially in 2020. If you want to give the entire world LSD at the same time, maybe you can knock us out of it. That's not gonna happen any time soon.


But I get it now. Your entire ideology requires this to not be true. If it was proven to be true, Antifa and anyone that thinks like them have very little left to fight for.

Which is precisely why they will run our nation into the ground. They'd sooner let everyone suffer and burn with them than admit how much like blind fundamentalist Christians they've become with their ideology.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/21/20 03:56 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26836438 - 07/21/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Lol, that video is laughable.  You are not only making shit up...you're also reposting shit that other people made up.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26836442 - 07/21/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

how are you so certain that your current rulers aren't just the result of "consolidation of power among crime bosses"?




They mostly are, but any other system we could be provided with right now is infinitely worse, given the condition of humans.

Humans will always collaborate in selfish, corrupt ways. It's unavoidable. You can't shame it out of them. You can't educate it out of them.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26836447 - 07/21/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

you're also reposting shit that other people made up.




I actually agree with you.

Antifa is one big LARP for a bunch of soyboys to get off on a hero complex.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26836454 - 07/21/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

WTF is a "soyboy?"


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