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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26838355 - 07/22/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

MadMuncher said:
you hate freedom




Only for the evil. And I define the evil as those that would rob individuals or groups of their freedoms through violence, destruction or theft.




By your definition, police are evil.  Their job is to rob individuals and groups of their freedoms through violence and/or destruction, leading to death as an outcome much more often than would be desired.




The magnitude of the problem within our police force relative to the magnitude of the other evils that are going on in society that our police and government prevent is so disproportionate this argument doesn't hold any water at all.

Police need reform. More citizens should get involved through discussion, not mindless chants. And we need to end the drug war. That's it.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 01:38 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838356 - 07/22/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I'm not a republican. I'm just speaking matter of factly. I'd rather live in a republican city though. They're way fuckin' safer. Look at the chart, dude. Measured in two different ways.





Hey, FINALLY someone from EITHER side presents some evidence.  :thumbup:

This is one of the cause/effect questions.  Is there more crime in Democratic cities because they are democratic, or because more poor people are living there?


--------------------
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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26838361 - 07/22/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

are those the only two options?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838362 - 07/22/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

you believe that fear and force are not only justified but required in order to keep people "in line".




This is a complete fucking lie. I never said that. I said it's effective, IN PARTICULAR toward evil people.

This is some serious scumbaggery on your part. Or should I give you benefit of the doubt and assume you're just not capable of seeing what I'm really trying to say?




Quote:

But FEAR and POWER are the only things we can use to keep evil in line. We can't use reason. We can't use love.




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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26838364 - 07/22/20 01:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
are those the only two options?



Not necessarily.  Maybe you can list other options?  :shrug:

That's my point, that there may be other factors besides political party.


--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 3
    #26838365 - 07/22/20 01:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

you believe that fear and force are not only justified but required in order to keep people "in line".




This is a complete fucking lie. I never said that. I said it's effective, IN PARTICULAR toward evil people.




Bullshit.  You literally said, "But FEAR and POWER are the only things we can use to keep evil in line."


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26838370 - 07/22/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

But FEAR and POWER are the only things we can use to keep evil in line. We can't use reason. We can't use love.




Did you miss the word, "Evil?" in that statement?

Go ahead and challenge the idea if you'd like. Explain to me the third magical way we keep evil in line. I'm listening.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838371 - 07/22/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
The magnitude of the problem within our police force relative to the magnitude of the other evils that are going on in society that our police and government prevent is so disproportionate this argument doesn't hold any water at all.





It's your definition and metric.  If it doesn't hold water, don't blame me


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26838373 - 07/22/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

you believe that fear and force are not only justified but required in order to keep people "in line".




This is a complete fucking lie. I never said that. I said it's effective, IN PARTICULAR toward evil people.




Bullshit.  You literally said, "But FEAR and POWER are the only things we can use to keep evil in line."




He accused me of "keeping people in line" and conveniently left off the "evil" part.

I COMPLETELY stand by what I said about evil people. Challenge me.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838377 - 07/22/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

AND JUST SO I'M NOT MISQUOTED (fake news) here's my FULL QUOTE:

Quote:

"But FEAR and POWER are the only things we can use to keep evil in line. We can't use reason. We can't use love. We can administer love when they are not threats to society, but we can't control them with love."




Some people here really do seem they like to twist your words to make you say something you didn't.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 01:45 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838382 - 07/22/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Why should we control anyone?


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838383 - 07/22/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
Totalitarians are the terrorists.

Are we done now?



Because FEAR and POWER are the only two tools we have to keep evil in check, there must be a PRESENCE in our society that exists that is both powerful and strikes fear into evil's heart.

That presence winds up both holding authority and taking great personal risk every day on the job to hold that authority.

Edit: again, end the drug war and most of the paranoia any of us ever had with cops would go away.





things learned from this thread:

1. Terrorists are essential to maintaining order.
2. There is only one city with a republican mayor in the USA worth mentioning
3. Freedom is evil. We need terror. Police states are essential


--------------------


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil]
    #26838390 - 07/22/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why should we control anyone?





Allow me to re-quote my self from the last page in case you failed to read it, Mr Lawyer.

Quote:

I define evil as those that would rob individuals or groups of their freedoms through violence, destruction or theft.




The answer is because there ARE humans that would seek to control us, and we can't escape power games. Escaping them is an ILLUSION.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 01:50 PM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838391 - 07/22/20 01:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Go ahead and challenge the idea if you'd like. Explain to me the third magical way we keep evil in line. I'm listening.




Well, first let's agree that we're are talking about "evil" people and not the vague concept of "evil".
Next let's examine the ways in which someone becomes "evil".  Once we have done that, we'll be a good way towards being able to hypothesize methods other than fear or force to mitigate the damage that those "evil" people cause

It starts with not assuming the solution to be self-evident despite having been attempted for...ever...without yielding the desired result.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26838392 - 07/22/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Please use my definition of evil to understand my reasons for wanting to control it. I've laid it out above.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838394 - 07/22/20 01:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Your definition of evil and your prescribed response to evil are one and the same.  I've demonstrated that clearly with your own words.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26838427 - 07/22/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Completely false.

Being strong enough to prevent evil (power) so it doesn't fuck with you due to what you're capable of (fear), is not the same as murder, rape, theft, human trafficking, and other crimes against humanity.

If you're not dangerous enough to prevent evil, evil walks all over you.


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838429 - 07/22/20 02:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I'm not a republican. I'm just speaking matter of factly. I'd rather live in a republican city though. They're way fuckin' safer. Look at the chart, dude. Measured in two different ways.





Hey, FINALLY someone from EITHER side presents some evidence.  :thumbup:

This is one of the cause/effect questions.  Is there more crime in Democratic cities because they are democratic, or because more poor people are living there?




this looks a lot more like propaganda than evidence to me. its not even a valid talking point.
the graph itself shows no relevant data to the point vahn is trying to make- at least as i perceive- democrats are dumb and violent and destroying the country and we need to elect as many republicans as possible and live in fear of them via police state terrorism


--------------------


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26838432 - 07/22/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Democrats are mostly good people that have/had no idea that their elected leaders aren't/weren't going to protect their cities and businesses from the extremists in their political party.

It's why more democrats are going to vote Trump than ever before. Just watch the 2020 election results. The polls lie.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 02:09 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838438 - 07/22/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I applaud Balls' attempt to discuss this with you, but your argument seems based on a complete lack of understanding of societies and the purpose thereof.  You seem to completely reject the idea of a social compact and assume that humans are savages by nature.  I'm confident that the two of you will never reach common ground because you're relying on some a priori notion of human nature that ignores the reality of the world around you.

Maybe if this were the 15th century, your ideas would be relevant.  It isn't, though.  We understand a whole lot more about humans and how to encourage social conduct and discourage antisocial conduct.  This very nation was founded on concepts that you seem to disregard.  I'm a bit surprised that this level of ignorance still exists among adults in the U.S.


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