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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838283 - 07/22/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:

That depends on whether or not the people as a whole think the cops are dealing with people unjustly.

Most taxpayers are annoyed at the rioters, not the cops. i know there are exceptions on this board. :wink:



the only people i have met who are annoyed at the rioters are those like you who think this is Antifa (still cant figure out who the fuck that really is), other misc. trump supporters, and people with close friends and family in law enforcement (bigtime emotional bias)

theyre not on federal property in that clip. they are firing and launching tear gas and flash bangs directly into the middle of a crowd of at least 1000 people who were peacefully assembled in a public park and chasing them down the street for blocks. rushing at the crowd firing rubber bullets and pepper balls from 10 ft. so much fog in the air cant get good a view. eyes were on fire.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838286 - 07/22/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

2) You don't believe that humans can be expected to act morally "on their own."  This is perplexing because, for one, there is nobody else around but other humans to enforce morality on the humans who can't be expected to act morally.  How can a police state possibly help under these conditions?




I went over this once before. There is no utopia. Our brilliant founding fathers sought to minimize this dilemma by separating our government into 3 branches, of which the police are only one.

One branch has to write the law that determines what police can and can't do and another branch interprets the law to see if what the cops did was just in the first place.




Ok, first, you're doubling down on the self-evident efficacy of totalitarianism.  Got it.
This post is confusing though because a short time ago you were justifying extrajudicial killings by police based on the presumed guilt of those killed but now you are saying that courts decide guilt.  I'm really trying to wrap my head around this position but I'm having a hard time reconciling it.  I'm also confused about your understanding of the structure of our government.  Do you believe that the police are a branch of government in the U.S.?


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26838292 - 07/22/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I have not contradicted my self.

Most cops shoot in self-defense, as would I, or to chase a criminal on the run. They're not playing executioner in the streets.


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26838294 - 07/22/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Thats because the states is so large and diverse. A lot of states are completely safe and experience relatively low murders while a hand full of states throw the numbers out of whack. 63 people were shot over the weekend in Chicago for fucks sake




Yes, most of the violence (not all, but most) is concentrated in cities with democratic leadership and democratic populations and is perpetuated by people that don't vote republican.




just realized what a waste of time this thread is

"if you don't love it, get the fuck out"


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838299 - 07/22/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ok, first, you're doubling down on the self-evident efficacy of totalitarianism.




I'm asserting that fear is the easiest way to control people, in particular evil people without morality, to keep them in line.

The problem with totalitarianism is it eventually causes good people to want to rebel, because it is unjust.

But FEAR and POWER are the only things we can use to keep evil in line. We can't use reason. We can't use love. We can administer love when they are not threats to society, but we can't control them with love.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 01:15 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26838304 - 07/22/20 01:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Thats because the states is so large and diverse. A lot of states are completely safe and experience relatively low murders while a hand full of states throw the numbers out of whack. 63 people were shot over the weekend in Chicago for fucks sake




Yes, most of the violence (not all, but most) is concentrated in cities with democratic leadership and democratic populations and is perpetuated by people that don't vote republican.




just realized what a waste of time this thread is

"if you don't love it, get the fuck out"




I'm not a republican. I'm just speaking matter of factly. I'd rather live in a republican city though. They're way fuckin' safer. Look at the chart, dude. Measured in two different ways.



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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838306 - 07/22/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Totalitarians are the terrorists.

Are we done now?


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26838316 - 07/22/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Because FEAR and POWER are the only two tools we have to keep evil in check, there must be a PRESENCE in our society that exists that is both powerful and strikes fear into evil's heart.

That presence winds up both holding authority and taking great personal risk every day on the job to hold that authority.

Edit: again, end the drug war and most of the paranoia any of us ever had with cops would go away.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 01:18 PM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838319 - 07/22/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Ok, first, you're doubling down on the self-evident efficacy of totalitarianism.




I'm asserting that fear is the easiest way to control people, in particular evil people without morality, to keep them in line.

The problem with totalitarianism is it eventually causes good people to want to rebel, because it is unjust.

But FEAR and POWER are the only things we can use to keep evil in line. We can't use reason. We can't use love. We can administer love when they are not threats to society, but we can't control them with love.




This post, among others, says a lot about you and the way you view the world but very little of substance and nothing that you can even verify or support in any way.  I've been trying to help you be better at thinking and articulating those thoughts but I can only explain it to you.  I can't understand it for you.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26838323 - 07/22/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

This post, among others, says a lot about you




Oh do tell me what it says about me. I can't wait to hear it.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 01:21 PM)


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838328 - 07/22/20 01:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

you hate freedom


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26838332 - 07/22/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
you hate freedom




Only for the evil. And I define the evil as those that would rob individuals or groups of their freedoms through violence, destruction or theft.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 3
    #26838334 - 07/22/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

you believe that fear and force are not only justified but required in order to keep people "in line".
you believe that totalitarianism is an effective means of controlling "evil" and "immoral" people.
you believe that people should, in fact, be "controlled" and "kept in line"
You don't believe that reason or love are of much import in structuring a just society.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838340 - 07/22/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

MadMuncher said:
you hate freedom




Only for the evil. And I define the evil as those that would rob individuals or groups of their freedoms through violence, destruction or theft.




By your definition, police are evil.  Their job is to rob individuals and groups of their freedoms through violence and/or destruction, leading to death as an outcome much more often than would be desired.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838341 - 07/22/20 01:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You know, it's really sad. Some activists could actually sit down and hold meeting with the various cities on how they COULD reform police. They could take polls and get way more community involvement. This could be a very positive thing. Obviously America is listening and watching right now. Now would be the BEST time for positive police reform to be possible.

Instead, they've chosen to make enemies with the cops. This will not solve anything. This will only escalate the problem.


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838343 - 07/22/20 01:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

he just said he hates freedom, balls. fuck him. deport him somewhere he can have a republican mayor

here's some souvenirs from the revolution last night



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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26838344 - 07/22/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
you believe that fear and force are not only justified but required in order to keep people "in line".
you believe that totalitarianism is an effective means of controlling "evil" and "immoral" people.
you believe that people should, in fact, be "controlled" and "kept in line"
You don't believe that reason or love are of much import in structuring a just society.




My citing what is and is not effective on a matter-of-fact-level HAS NOTHING TO FUCKING DO with my personal morality. I'm observing the world and HOW IT WORKS, not telling you I agree with it.

To be frank, I hate this fucking world and how violent it is. But I'm not fucking blind to the fact that everything preys on everything and we can't escape it.

Now, if you had REAL wisdom, you would have already been able to discern that about me.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 01:34 PM)


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26838347 - 07/22/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

i want to sit in my park and smoke without fear of taking a 40mm rubber bullet to the nutsack from 10 yards.


--------------------


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Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me...

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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838349 - 07/22/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

you believe that fear and force are not only justified but required in order to keep people "in line".




This is a complete fucking lie. I never said that. I said it's effective, IN PARTICULAR toward evil people.

This is some serious scumbaggery on your part. Or should I give you benefit of the doubt and assume you're just not capable of seeing what I'm really trying to say?


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838354 - 07/22/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

black lives matter proud boy


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Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
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