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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil]
    #26838142 - 07/22/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Cops are most likely to kill people.  How is that alright under any analysis?




When you use your head instead of your feelings, it's absolutely more nuanced and not black and white.



So you can't answer?




Holy shit, do you REALLY think I can't do a better job of answering the question? Are you going to stake your victory on this right now?

You're in moral territory. I don't have to agree with you morally on anything, but if you want a wall of text I'm happy to oblige.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa] * 3
    #26838143 - 07/22/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
The glaring problem doesn't require much nuance.
Extrajudicial punishment, especially the death penalty, has no place in the activities of LEOs in a civilized society.  That is, after all, why we even have courts.  Cops aren't supposed to decide your guilt and execute you on the street EVEN if you are guilty.  They took a moderately dangerous job that requires self-control.  If they can't handle that responsibility, there is always a career in medical billing




Just gonna re-post the video because you clearly missed it.



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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26838145 - 07/22/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

You’re the one interpreting his words. I didn’t see you asking for clarity. I was just going by the meaning of the words he typed.




I don't go off the meaning of the words people type.



And that’s how you end up believing whatever you want to believe. Just like Falcon does.




You ought to spend more time in realms where words don't matter and people can simply feel the pure intent of one another, dude.




It’s not even Christmas and you’re handing out fruitcake


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineqman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838148 - 07/22/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
It's actually 5.882% if you were to take 1,000 and 17,000 as the numbers to compare. (That was actually 2018 I got those numbers from. I may have said 2019.)

from my perspective, a number of the people that cops shoot were killers themselves and would have gone on to kill multiple other people themselves if they had not been shot.

If you want to talk data in sheer numbers of deaths, the police PREVENT more killings than they COMMIT, especially over the long haul when dealing with serial killers... and we're not just talking the cases cops shoot people, we're talking the MAJORITY of the cases when they DON'T and they STILL prevent a murder.

And it's not just murder they prevent, it's theft, destruction of property, violence, rape, etc...

Nobody is naive enough to believe that cops aren't guilty of major infractions against the American people and need to be held accountable. None of my republican friends would disagree with that statement. Not ONE.

But why is there this plague-like stupidity in our country that seems to assume we'll FIX the problem by removing the cops entirely?


The "proof" is in how many murderers police actually get off the street. I don't know the exact answer, but I GUARANTEE the number is much higher than the number of innocent people cops have killed.

Police reform is the answer. Eradication of police just means more rape, more theft, more MURDER, etc... etc...




Well, police respond to violent crime, they do not prevent it. More police doesn't mean less violent crime, less police doesn't mean more violent crime. Defunding the police doesn't mean less criminal arrests.

Chicago is a perfect example, plenty of police and still plenty of violent crime. Are the Chicago police arresting all of these drive by shooters?  No, most get away because nobody knows who did it or won't contact the police even if they did know.

Nobody is asking to remove ALL of the police, defunding means LESS money for the current police departments.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26838150 - 07/22/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
How is that not serious? Cops killed 1100 people in 2019. That’s 6.8% of the 16,240 homicides. There are 1,000,000 Law enforcement officers, constituting .3% of the US population. That’s a homicide perpetrator rate of 110 per 100,000. The overall US homicide rate is about 5 per 100,000. Cops kill more people than any other demographic, whether it be race or occupation. Cops even kill people at a higher rate than armed robbers.



Pretending to not know why cops might kill more people than truck drivers is not arguing in good faith.

Quote:

koods said:
He’s certainly legally guilty at this point in time, which is something falcon refuses to accept.



Source, or make believe?

Let me remind you how many times I've said he was guilty, yet you continue to repeat this lie.

You are truly the king of make believe.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26838159 - 07/22/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Is he guilty of the crime of lying to the FBI? This is a simple yes or no question.



No.




--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26838160 - 07/22/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't miss anything.  That is a video of an untrained civilian panicking in a training situation in which no matter his decision the instructor has the ability to make it wrong.  It changes nothing about what I said


--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26838161 - 07/22/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
And that’s how you end up believing whatever you want to believe. Just like Falcon does.



I believe whatever evidence shows, unlike yourself.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26838163 - 07/22/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
And that’s how you end up believing whatever you want to believe. Just like Falcon does.



I believe whatever evidence shows, unlike yourself.




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Is he guilty of the crime of lying to the FBI? This is a simple yes or no question.



No.




--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26838170 - 07/22/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
It's actually 5.882% if you were to take 1,000 and 17,000 as the numbers to compare. (That was actually 2018 I got those numbers from. I may have said 2019.)

from my perspective, a number of the people that cops shoot were killers themselves and would have gone on to kill multiple other people themselves if they had not been shot.

If you want to talk data in sheer numbers of deaths, the police PREVENT more killings than they COMMIT, especially over the long haul when dealing with serial killers... and we're not just talking the cases cops shoot people, we're talking the MAJORITY of the cases when they DON'T and they STILL prevent a murder.

And it's not just murder they prevent, it's theft, destruction of property, violence, rape, etc...

Nobody is naive enough to believe that cops aren't guilty of major infractions against the American people and need to be held accountable. None of my republican friends would disagree with that statement. Not ONE.

But why is there this plague-like stupidity in our country that seems to assume we'll FIX the problem by removing the cops entirely?


The "proof" is in how many murderers police actually get off the street. I don't know the exact answer, but I GUARANTEE the number is much higher than the number of innocent people cops have killed.

Police reform is the answer. Eradication of police just means more rape, more theft, more MURDER, etc... etc...




Well, police respond to violent crime, they do not prevent it. More police doesn't mean less violent crime, less police doesn't mean more violent crime. Defunding the police doesn't mean less criminal arrests.

Chicago is a perfect example, plenty of police and still plenty of violent crime. Are the Chicago police arresting all of these drive by shooters?  No, most get away because nobody knows who did it or won't contact the police even if they did know.

Nobody is asking to remove ALL of the police, defunding means LESS money for the current police departments.




If there wasn't such thing as repeat offenses, I'd agree with this argument. There's a reason when people commit a crime more than once often times the punishment winds up being harsher.

Also, people are underestimating how much crime simply isn't committed because of the FEAR of punishment. You have to punish enough lawbreakers to scare the rest into compliance, too.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (07/22/20 12:11 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26838178 - 07/22/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
no matter his decision the criminal has the ability to make it wrong.




There, I fixed it. THAT'S real life. Welcome!


--------------------


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838182 - 07/22/20 12:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The US has the harshest punishment for crimes in the western world yet we also generally have the higest crime rates.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26838189 - 07/22/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The US has the harshest punishment for crimes in the western world yet we also generally have the higest crime rates.




And it would be even higher without law enforcement. You have no idea how many people simply don't commit crimes because they are scared of punishment. the vast, vast majority of people who WANT to, DON'T simply because they refuse to take the chance.

Take away the risk of taking a chance.... and you'll see a lot more people deciding to do it!


--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26838191 - 07/22/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
And that’s how you end up believing whatever you want to believe. Just like Falcon does.



I believe whatever evidence shows, unlike yourself.




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Is he guilty of the crime of lying to the FBI? This is a simple yes or no question.



No.






Reread this please.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26838192 - 07/22/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
The glaring problem doesn't require much nuance.
Extrajudicial punishment, especially the death penalty, has no place in the activities of LEOs in a civilized society.  That is, after all, why we even have courts.  Cops aren't supposed to decide your guilt and execute you on the street EVEN if you are guilty.  They took a moderately dangerous job that requires self-control.  If they can't handle that responsibility, there is always a career in medical billing




The 'war on drugs' puts law enforcement into these situations, eliminate those laws and we would likely see those numbers come down as well.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26838194 - 07/22/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Conversely, Norway has a maximum prison sentence for murder of 21 years (and this sentence is extremely rare) and they have a murder rate 1/10th that of the US


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838197 - 07/22/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

koods said:
The US has the harshest punishment for crimes in the western world yet we also generally have the higest crime rates.




And it would be even higher without law enforcement. You have no idea how many people simply don't commit crimes because they are scared of punishment. the vast, vast majority of people who WANT to, DON'T simply because they refuse to take the chance.




This claim doesn’t stand up to the empirical evidence.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26838199 - 07/22/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
The glaring problem doesn't require much nuance.
Extrajudicial punishment, especially the death penalty, has no place in the activities of LEOs in a civilized society.  That is, after all, why we even have courts.  Cops aren't supposed to decide your guilt and execute you on the street EVEN if you are guilty.  They took a moderately dangerous job that requires self-control.  If they can't handle that responsibility, there is always a career in medical billing




The 'war on drugs' puts law enforcement into these situations, eliminate those laws and we would likely see those numbers come down as well.




Agree. I despise the drug war.


--------------------


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26838201 - 07/22/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

koods said:
The US has the harshest punishment for crimes in the western world yet we also generally have the higest crime rates.




And it would be even higher without law enforcement. You have no idea how many people simply don't commit crimes because they are scared of punishment. the vast, vast majority of people who WANT to, DON'T simply because they refuse to take the chance.




This claim doesn’t stand up to the empirical evidence.




You sound like you forgot what it was like to be a kid already.

How many times did you or your friends disobey mom and dad as soon as you knew you wouldn't get caught? You're gonna watch that movie, drink that beer, have that girl over. And if not you, certainly PLENTY of people you know.

Are you really so naive to not believe adult humans play the same games with cops?


--------------------


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26838203 - 07/22/20 12:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

What you think you know about psychology is fine. It’s a decent theory. But, it turns out to be wrong.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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