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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: The Influence] * 1
    #26944986 - 09/19/20 09:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Fucking no one is advocating for this guys death. No one is happy about it. But because some have differing opinions on the potus its a debate and shit show.

I have a half black daughter I have to raise during all of this and try to explain to her what is right and wrong in this ever changing world. If a cop or anyone else put their hands on her Id fucking kill them. Fuck the cops and BLM and fuck this site if thats what it comes down too.

Btw go to Englewood, Chicago and preach the shit you are. Guaranteed I'd be more welcome than most of you. You know where the most black on black killings occur.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: The Influence] * 1
    #26945040 - 09/19/20 10:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Is this justification and disagreement predicated on the notion that George Floyd was intoxicated?  Then it's garbage justification and shouldn't be entertained.



Whether the cops overreacted or not has absolutely ZERO to do with him being intoxicated.

The question was whether the cops killed him, or the drugs killed him.  I think the cops probably killed him, but let's assume for the sake of argument that the drugs killed him.  In that case, were the cops overreacting by pinning him down?  I think so, but others would say it's not unheard of for cops to pin mischievous guys down.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
There is no level of drug intoxication that would justify what happened to George Floyd.  You want to play devils advocate for "those who disagree"? Then I would ask for the reasoning involved in using intoxication to justify continuing to kneel for several minutes on an unresponsive person without a pulse. Otherwise, you're just carrying water for a position you consider unjustifiable.



Again, whether the cops were justified in pinning Floyd down has NOTHING to do with his intoxication.  The intoxication is only relevant in determining if they killed him or not.


Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...police refusing to administer first aid to a person overdosing and requesting help is still an example of police brutality. Even if the cops found George Floyd already dead of an overdose and proceeded to kneel on his corpse for several minutes, it would still be an example of police brutality. Even if George Floyd hadn't died, it would still be an example of police brutality.



I agree.  :shrug:

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
If someone wants to provide reasoning for how George Floyd’s intoxication levels justify the actions of the police, I'll listen and respond - but don't play devils advocate for positions you're unable to defend.



NOBODY is making that argument, dude.  At least I'm not.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26945062 - 09/19/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Why am I entertaining alternate theories that may have validity, as even Nonagon Infinity suggested?



Validity for what, though?  In the law, we have something called the "eggshell skull doctrine."  Basically, it says that a wrongdoer takes his victim as he finds him.  If a victim has a particular medical issue that makes him/her more susceptible than an average person, and the victim is harmed when a normal person may not have been, or more than a normal person may have been, that is no defense for the wrongdoer.

In other words, it makes no difference if drugs, or anything else, contributed to his death.  If the knee contributed even a little bit, the cop is on the hook for the death.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil]
    #26945380 - 09/20/20 01:57 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Validity for what, though?



That Floyd DIDN'T have a tolerance for fentanyl, and would have died regardless.  Again, he probably had the tolerance. It just hasn't been shown, though some here are saying we know for certain that he did.

Quote:

Enlil said:
In the law, we have something called the "eggshell skull doctrine."  Basically, it says that a wrongdoer takes his victim as he finds him.  If a victim has a particular medical issue that makes him/her more susceptible than an average person, and the victim is harmed when a normal person may not have been, or more than a normal person may have been, that is no defense for the wrongdoer.

In other words, it makes no difference if drugs, or anything else, contributed to his death.  If the knee contributed even a little bit, the cop is on the hook for the death.



Then I'd say the cop is on the hook (unless it can be shown Floyd would have died anyway, which I highly doubt will happen given the current reports).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26945616 - 09/20/20 07:16 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

He wouldn't have died anyway it took them over 5 minutes to do the job with a knee. He wasn't close to death before that.

Also kneeling on a dying human seems inhumane. If he was already dying that is


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26945629 - 09/20/20 07:27 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Black, strike one.
On drugs, strike two.
Police roll up, strike 3 is death.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26945707 - 09/20/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

That Floyd DIDN'T have a tolerance for fentanyl, and would have died regardless. 




It makes no difference whether he would have died anyway.  If the officer's conduct made that death happen 1 second sooner than it would have happened, the officer is 100% responsible.


--------------------
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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil]
    #26945714 - 09/20/20 08:26 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

No mercy killing laws in the states enlil? Like you see someone get hit by a car and you know they're going to die and they're saying kill me. You can't help them out?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26945736 - 09/20/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

What little is allowed in the U.S. vis a vis mercy killing certainly wouldn't apply here.


--------------------
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Ask an Attorney

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil]
    #26945741 - 09/20/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Biden is gonna implement Chinese mercy killing rules where you can back over someone a second time if you didn’t kill them on the first pass.


--------------------
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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Enlil]
    #26946093 - 09/20/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

That Floyd DIDN'T have a tolerance for fentanyl, and would have died regardless. 




It makes no difference whether he would have died anyway.  If the officer's conduct made that death happen 1 second sooner than it would have happened, the officer is 100% responsible.



I understand.  I was explaining the argument before the "eggshell skull doctrine" was brought up.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26946170 - 09/20/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You guys are attacking the wrong person.



I know I'm coming back in after most of the discussion already took place, but I just want to be clear that nobody is attacking you.

I asked you to change the topic of discussion back to the more important problem: police violence. That's not an attack. It's nothing personal against you as a person, it's just a request to keep things on topic. I'm not saying anything about your character, your intentions, or your credibility.

I understand that you weren't the only one who was talking about Floyd OD'ing (you weren't even the first person who brought it up), but I still stand by what I've said.

I'll say it once again: police brutality is the problem here. There is nothing that justifies the actions of those officers. No concentration of fentanyl or meth in Floyd's bloodstream justifies those actions. That's the important point. The police should not be using tactics like that (intent to kill or not) in any situation. To that end, the drug content of his blood is completely irrelevant to this discussion, which is a discussion about police violence.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26946244 - 09/20/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You guys are attacking the wrong person.



I know I'm coming back in after most of the discussion already took place, but I just want to be clear that nobody is attacking you.

I asked you to change the topic of discussion back to the more important problem: police violence. That's not an attack.
It's nothing personal against you as a person, it's just a request to keep things on topic. I'm not saying anything about your character, your intentions, or your credibility.



I agreed we should change the topic back to police violence WAY BACK HERE.  But I also think we shouldn't make believe drugs played no role in his dying if the evidence (or lack thereof) doesn't support it.  You and Enlil both took the correct position that it doesn't really matter, while koods and then shivas) told me it's ok to make believe drugs played no role in contibuting to Floyd's death, to push the greater good narrative that police are evil.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
I understand that you weren't the only one who was talking about Floyd OD'ing (you weren't even the first person who brought it up), but I still stand by what I've said.



Yet you just directed your post at me specifically, even though I already agreed with you.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
I'll say it once again: police brutality is the problem here. There is nothing that justifies the actions of those officers. No concentration of fentanyl or meth in Floyd's bloodstream justifies those actions. That's the important point. The police should not be using tactics like that (intent to kill or not) in any situation. To that end, the drug content of his blood is completely irrelevant to this discussion, which is a discussion about police violence.



And once again I agreed with you WAY BACK HERE.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26946275 - 09/20/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Would you mind screenshot or similarly posting the part of either autopsy saying he died from drugs



Here is the medical examiner report.  It seems to indicate both sides are correct:
Quote:

OPINION:
The Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner agrees with the autopsy findings and the cause of death certification of George Floyd as determined by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office. His death was caused by the police subdual and restraint in the setting of severe hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, and methamphetamine and fentanyl intoxication.







It says his death was caused by police subdual and restraint. The setting of his death is not the direct cause.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26946281 - 09/20/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
and then shivas) told me it's ok to make believe drugs played no role in contibuting to Floyd's death, to push the greater good narrative that police are evil.




I don't believe I ever told you that - the paragraph you quote certainly doesn't show me telling you this. I'm also not sure why you neglect to consider that you asked my opinion on this matter directly, and I responded in bold:

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
But even though we don't know for certain, rather than saying it doesn't matter, you're saying I should make believe along with koods to better sell the narrative we want.  Is that about right?




Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Even if George Floyd was overdosing on fentanyl, the police brutality is still absolutely unjustifiable. That's why entertaining the drug angle is complete garbage.




--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26946333 - 09/20/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...you asked my opinion on this matter directly, and I responded in bold:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Even if George Floyd was overdosing on fentanyl, the police brutality is still absolutely unjustifiable. That's why entertaining the drug angle is complete garbage.






And I've agreed with this.  Yet you sided with koods, who was saying things (also here) that haven't yet been proven true (as he always does).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/20/20 03:09 PM)


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26946406 - 09/20/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You stated:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Instead of saying it's irrelevant to the main point, koods came along and said "Why the fuck are you entertaining this garbage? What the fuck is wrong with you?"




And I stated:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I believe koods is correct. Entertaining the drug overdose angle is garbage, and I can't think of any reasonable excuse for you to have entertained it as much as you have.




And further clarified:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Even if George Floyd was overdosing on fentanyl, the police brutality is still absolutely unjustifiable. That's why entertaining the drug angle is complete garbage.







Why does it seem reasonable for you to assume my statement "I believe koods is correct." refers to an entirely different statement koods posted the day before?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26946792 - 09/20/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...you asked my opinion on this matter directly, and I responded in bold:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Even if George Floyd was overdosing on fentanyl, the police brutality is still absolutely unjustifiable. That's why entertaining the drug angle is complete garbage.






And I've agreed with this.  Yet you sided with koods, who was saying things (also here) that haven't yet been proven true (as he always does).



Oh shut the fuck up. He didn’t die of an overdose. Case closed. Stop talking about this as if it’s a legitimate opinion based on facts. All you’re doing is participating in the the worst kind of victim smearing, shaming and blaming.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26946854 - 09/20/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: JHOVA]
    #26946897 - 09/20/20 09:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Is that alt right code


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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