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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26944259 - 09/19/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
If he was walking around with a toxic level of fentanyl in his system he was almost certainly a junkie.



Others offered the possibility that he was a dealer who swallowed the evidence.

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Just because he had a level of fentanyl that could kill most humans in his system doesnt mean it would kill him. Its called having a tolerance.



Yes, I get it.  That's why I asked if it was proven he was a junkie.





Why the fuck are you entertaining this garbage? What the fuck is wrong with youv


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: koods]
    #26944368 - 09/19/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Why am I entertaining alternate theories that may have validity, as even Nonagon Infinity suggested?


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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26944439 - 09/19/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

If that's what you think Nonagon Infinity was suggesting, I believe you completely missed the point of their post.

"I repeat: police brutality is the problem. Whether George Floyd was on drugs or not, whether the drugs were a factor in his death or not, there is absolutely nothing that justifies the actions those police officers took on him. It was violent and unnecessary, and it was a factor in his death"

No level of drugs in George Floyd’s system would justify the behaviour of those cops. As Nonagon Infinity correctly points out, "the longer you argue this point about how much of a role the drugs played in his death, the further away we all get from discussing the actual problem, which is police brutality."


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26944478 - 09/19/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, I get that.  I already agreed with him.

I even said "I'm guessing he was (a junkie)" to show that I think you guys are probably correct.  But I also asked if there was evidence to prove it, and so far there wasn't.

Instead of saying it's irrelevant to the main point, koods came along and said "Why the fuck are you entertaining this garbage? What the fuck is wrong with you?"  If he followed Nonagon Infinity's advice, he might have said something along the lines of "That's not the point, the point is police shouldn't have kneed him".

You guys are attacking the wrong person.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26944502 - 09/19/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I believe koods is correct. Entertaining the drug overdose angle is garbage, and I can't think of any reasonable excuse for you to have entertained it as much as you have.

George Floyd was murdered on a public street - in front of witnesses both filming and vocally objecting - by four cops who continued to violently restrain him for several minutes after he become unresponsive with no pulse. Full stop.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26944531 - 09/19/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

He had a lethal amount of fentanyl in his system, which I agree wouldn't have killed him if he had developed a tolerance (which I also agreed he probably had, though we don't know for certain).

But even though we don't know for certain, rather than saying it doesn't matter, you're saying I should make believe along with koods to better sell the narrative we want.  Is that about right?


--------------------
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26944586 - 09/19/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Do you believe that any level of intoxication would have justified the actions of the police?


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26944588 - 09/19/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I think he has made that clear already....but ya dont read the thread and keep arguing. He has literally agreed that the murder of George floyd is fucked up! Just a few post back.


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26944596 - 09/19/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I agree.  I didn't see a reason for Haner to get beat up, and I certainly don't think George FLoyd should have been kneeled to death.




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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26944602 - 09/19/20 05:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't ask 'Do you think the murder of George Floyd was fucked up?' - I asked "Do you believe that any level of intoxication would have justified the actions of the police?". Those are different questions.

The reason I ask this specific question is to illustrate this point: if the answer is no, then any discussion of Floyd’s intoxication is completely irrelevant to the discussion of police brutality and only serves to distract from the point - if the answer is yes, then I would ask for the reasoning involved in using intoxication to justify continuing to kneel for several minutes on an unresponsive person without a pulse.

Even if George Floyd was overdosing on fentanyl, the police brutality is still absolutely unjustifiable. That's why entertaining the drug angle is complete garbage.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26944603 - 09/19/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Do you believe that any level of intoxication would have justified the actions of the police?



The Influence answered correctly (thank you for reading my posts :thumbup:)



I'm in agreement that the police action was unjustified.  The question was asked if drugs may have played a role in his death, and I don't know if anyone here knows for sure.

I'll even say I think he may have died anyway, but I can't be certain with the evidence (or lack thereof) presented so far.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26944607 - 09/19/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I didn't ask 'Do you think the murder of George Floyd was fucked up?' - I asked "Do you believe that any level of intoxication would have justified the actions of the police?". Those are different questions.

The reason I ask this specific question is to illustrate this point: if the answer is no, then any discussion of Floyd’s intoxication is completely irrelevant to the discussion of police brutality and only serves to distract from the point



Though I agree police brutality is unjustified, do you not understand the difference some people see between pinning someone down and intentionally killing them?

I agree what they did was wrong regardless, and that's what you want to hear and I'm saying it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26944619 - 09/19/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I didn't ask 'Do you think the murder of George Floyd was fucked up?' - I asked "Do you believe that any level of intoxication would have justified the actions of the police?". Those are different questions.

The reason I ask this specific question is to illustrate this point: if the answer is no, then any discussion of Floyd’s intoxication is completely irrelevant to the discussion of police brutality and only serves to distract from the point - if the answer is yes, then I would ask for the reasoning involved in using intoxication to justify continuing to kneel for several minutes on an unresponsive person without a pulse.

Even if George Floyd was overdosing on fentanyl, the police brutality is still absolutely unjustifiable. That's why entertaining the drug angle is complete garbage.



Fair enough I was paraphrasing.  Again as he pointed out, others posed the question of his intoxication level to him and then he responded. 

I cannot remember every post in this thread; but not once can I recall seeing Falcon justifying the murder of George Floyd.

So I ask you....what is your point?


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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26944633 - 09/19/20 05:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Can you explain why that distinction is important? Is George Floyd’s death only an example of police brutality if the police intentionally kneed on him until he was dead? Police tactics causing unintentional death is part of the whole 'police brutality' conversation. Beyond that, it seems to me that continuing to pin someone down for several minutes after they have become unresponsive and without a pulse is where it crossed into 'intentionally killing' territory - there is no justification for that.

And don't do this childish 'I'm only agreeing to get you off my case' bullshit. I'm not trying to 'win' despite what you may think - I'm trying to help you understand why the discussion of George Floyd's intoxication is irrelevant. If you disagree, explain why and I'll clarify - if you agree, drop the childish caveat.


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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: The Influence]
    #26944635 - 09/19/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Influence said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I didn't ask 'Do you think the murder of George Floyd was fucked up?' - I asked "Do you believe that any level of intoxication would have justified the actions of the police?". Those are different questions.

The reason I ask this specific question is to illustrate this point: if the answer is no, then any discussion of Floyd’s intoxication is completely irrelevant to the discussion of police brutality and only serves to distract from the point - if the answer is yes, then I would ask for the reasoning involved in using intoxication to justify continuing to kneel for several minutes on an unresponsive person without a pulse.

Even if George Floyd was overdosing on fentanyl, the police brutality is still absolutely unjustifiable. That's why entertaining the drug angle is complete garbage.



Fair enough I was paraphrasing.  Again as he pointed out, others posed the question of his intoxication level to him and then he responded. 

I cannot remember every post in this thread; but not once can I recall seeing Falcon justifying the murder of George Floyd.

So I ask you....what is your point?



You quoted it:

The reason I ask this specific question is to illustrate this point: if the answer is no, then any discussion of Floyd’s intoxication is completely irrelevant to the discussion of police brutality and only serves to distract from the point - if the answer is yes, then I would ask for the reasoning involved in using intoxication to justify continuing to kneel for several minutes on an unresponsive person without a pulse.


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26944642 - 09/19/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I did quote your post; Where did Falcon declare that Geroge Floyd died because he was high? He already clearly stated that he doesnt think the cops murdering George Floyd was ok. He is not saying that to concede.

This is clearly a political debate, nothing to do with police brutality, but both sides saying they have or could handle it better all the while pointing out that most of these "protests" are people out attacking, looting and burning places down. Not holding signs and chanting. I dont th I nk anyone is defending the ex cops in this case.


Edited by The Influence (09/19/20 05:57 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26944656 - 09/19/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Can you explain why that distinction is important? Is George Floyd’s death only an example of police brutality if the police intentionally kneed on him until he was dead?



I think it's relevant to those who think pinning Floyd the way the police did was justified.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...it seems to me that continuing to pin someone down for several minutes after they have become unresponsive and without a pulse is where it crossed into 'intentionally killing' territory - there is no justification for that.



And I personally agree.  But it's very relevant to those who disagree.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
And don't do this childish 'I'm only agreeing to get you off my case' bullshit. I'm not trying to 'win' despite what you may think - I'm trying to help you understand why the discussion of George Floyd's intoxication is irrelevant.



IF he died because of a drug overdose and not from being pinned down, do you really not see how that would be relevant?

Again, I think the police kneeled on him way too long, and I even think that probably killed him.  But some feel he may have o.d.'d, and that is a small possibility.


I can get behind Nonagon Infinity's point that we should focus on whether it was ok to pin Floyd down for so long, regardless of whether it killed Floyd or not.  And I'd say it wasn't ok.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: The Influence]
    #26944869 - 09/19/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Influence said:
I did quote your post; Where did Falcon declare that Geroge Floyd died because he was high? He already clearly stated that he doesnt think the cops murdering George Floyd was ok. He is not saying that to concede.

This is clearly a political debate, nothing to do with police brutality, but both sides saying they have or could handle it better all the while pointing out that most of these "protests" are people out attacking, looting and burning places down. Not holding signs and chanting. I dont th I nk anyone is defending the ex cops in this case.



Where did I state that Falcon91Wolvrn03 declared that George Floyd died because he was high? It seems you're getting on my case for not closely reading Falcon91Wolvrn03's posts, while exhibiting the same tendency towards my own. I haven't accused Falcon91Wolvrn03 of any opinion regarding George Floyd - I'm explaining why the entire discussion surrounding George Floyd’s intoxication levels is completely irrelevant to the discussion of police brutality.

And yes, the killing of George Floyd is clearly a debate about police brutality. The notion it isn't is complete nonsense. Police brutality is a political matter, fyi


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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26944920 - 09/19/20 08:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Can you explain why that distinction is important? Is George Floyd’s death only an example of police brutality if the police intentionally kneed on him until he was dead?



I think it's relevant to those who think pinning Floyd the way the police did was justified.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...it seems to me that continuing to pin someone down for several minutes after they have become unresponsive and without a pulse is where it crossed into 'intentionally killing' territory - there is no justification for that.



And I personally agree.  But it's very relevant to those who disagree.




Is this justification and disagreement predicated on the notion that George Floyd was intoxicated? Then it's garbage justification and shouldn't be entertained. There is no level of drug intoxication that would justify what happened to George Floyd. You want to play devils advocate for "those who disagree"? Then I would ask for the reasoning involved in using intoxication to justify continuing to kneel for several minutes on an unresponsive person without a pulse. Otherwise, you're just carrying water for a position you consider unjustifiable.





Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
And don't do this childish 'I'm only agreeing to get you off my case' bullshit. I'm not trying to 'win' despite what you may think - I'm trying to help you understand why the discussion of George Floyd's intoxication is irrelevant.



IF he died because of a drug overdose and not from being pinned down, do you really not see how that would be relevant?

Again, I think the police kneeled on him way too long, and I even think that probably killed him.  But some feel he may have o.d.'d, and that is a small possibility.


I can get behind Nonagon Infinity's point that we should focus on whether it was ok to pin Floyd down for so long, regardless of whether it killed Floyd or not.  And I'd say it wasn't ok.



No I really don't, because police refusing to administer first aid to a person overdosing and requesting help is still an example of police brutality. Even if the cops found George Floyd already dead of an overdose and proceeded to kneel on his corpse for several minutes, it would still be an example of police brutality. Even if George Floyd hadn't died, it would still be an example of police brutality.

If someone wants to provide reasoning for how George Floyd’s intoxication levels justify the actions of the police, I'll listen and respond - but don't play devils advocate for positions you're unable to defend. There are "those who disagree" that Heather Heyer died because of the vehicle attack - would you similarly say something like "Again, I think the car drove way too fast into the crowd, and I even think that probably killed her.  But some feel she may have had a heart attack, and that is a small possibility." because that's basically the garbage position I see you adopting with regards to Floyd.


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26944946 - 09/19/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I stated that wrong. Most people in this thread are worried about politics.

Did Falcon91Wolvrn03 ever say that his death way by od? By the way Im capable of typing out full names.  Just figured youd get who I was referncing by saying Falcon.

This thread may have started about him, but thats not what its about anymore.

And fuck Jacob Blake. Guaranteed he ends up in prison for sexual assulat. And not cause hes black, cause he went to someones house and pushed inside them while a child was present. 

And if you or anyone else is ok with that then fuck them too.


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