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qman
Stranger

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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Nonagon Infinity] 1
#26930506 - 09/11/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why can't POC form their own racial identities and only white people can do it?
What is this "white club" that you speak of, or is this something you made up?
I didn't know being in the "white club" allows for all of those benefits you mentioned, how does that work? You do realize disproportional results doesn't always entail some sort of conspiracy like you're suggesting?
Either way, you posted a lot of generalizations when it comes to racial issues and outcomes. You're going to have to provide some specifics on those assertions.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,837
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: qman] 1
#26930579 - 09/11/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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No conspiracy is necessary and you know it. Would resolving class issues also resolve many race issues? Sure, of course. Race as we know it exists to perpetuate class division. The 2 are inextricably linked. Does this make all race based complaints of mistreatment invalid? Certainly not.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: ballsalsa]
#26930713 - 09/11/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: No conspiracy is necessary and you know it. Would resolving class issues also resolve many race issues? Sure, of course. Race as we know it exists to perpetuate class division. The 2 are inextricably linked. Does this make all race based complaints of mistreatment invalid? Certainly not.
If there's no conspiracy, why are so many unaware of this "white club" he's referring too in the first place? You and I both know his post was filled with very board generalizations. His rhetoric doesn't serve any useful purpose in my opinion and you shouldn't be in any rush to defend it.
Does giving classism just a little bit of attention invalid racial mistreatment? I don't think so.
Edited by qman (09/11/20 08:23 PM)
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: qman] 1
#26930928 - 09/11/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Why can't POC form their own racial identities and only white people can do it?
I didn't say that they can't form their own racial identities. I'm saying that the racial identity that they have in the US is imposed upon them by white Americans.
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qman said: What is this "white club" that you speak of, or is this something you made up?
I don't literally mean that there's a club of white people. It's an analogy meant to explain how white people are the ones who determine whether or not you can be considered white. When you identify yourself as white, it's easy to internalize that statement as just some sort of fact of nature, but it's actually not a fact of nature. You aren't white solely because of your genetics, but rather because other white people have deemed that your genetics are close enough to their own for you to be considered white. To that extent, being considered white in America really is like being a member of a club, and club membership is always determined by other white people. An individual's membership of the white race isn't a fact of nature, it's a fact of society.
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qman said: I didn't know being in the "white club" allows for all of those benefits you mentioned, how does that work? You do realize disproportional results doesn't always entail some sort of conspiracy like you're suggesting?
The answer to your first question is found in your second question: white people are more likely to be wealthy, are discriminated against less often, are less likely to be treated violently by the police, etc. than people of color. Membership of the white race entitles one to these benefits, and white people have historically been the ones who determine whether or not a person classifies as white. So yes, the reason being white allows for all of these benefits is because of the socio-economic disparity between races.
I never said anything about a conspiracy, so your second question is invalid. The labels that white people impose on people they deem as "other" does not need to be conspiratorial in nature to function as it has and does. There was no "conspiracy" that black people ought to be slaves in the early US. Slavery wasn't a conspiracy, it was public policy. To use a more contemporary example, there is no conspiracy for police officers to tend to react violently to nonviolent black offenders. It just happens, and our legal system fails to prevent it (or even discourage it. Police officers often walk away from violent incidents without facing the same consequences that average citizens would, and often remain police officers after such incidents). Systemic racism is not a conspiracy. Systemic racism is the result of unfair (or, at the very least, exploitable) public policy created by white people.
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qman said: Either way, you posted a lot of generalizations when it comes to racial issues and outcomes. You're going to have to provide some specifics on those assertions.
In my previous comment, I discussed the n-word, which was a specific example of white people imposing a label upon black people which, while excluding them from the white race, also made a statement about their alleged inferiority to members of the white race. I can't think of a more potent example of white people using exclusionary tactics to turn black people into "the other".
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qman said: If there's no conspiracy, why are so many unaware of this "white club" he's referring too in the first place?
Again, the "white club" was just a metaphor, and you are aware that it exists. The "white club" is the white race, and Americans tend to agree that it exists. As ballsalsa pointed out in his comment, the notion of the white race is used as an exclusionary tool which perpetuates socio-economic class differences.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26931021 - 09/12/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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That makes no sense. Every other person in the world can look at someone and determine if they're "white" or not. And none of the other non "white" people ever complain about not being able to get into the "white club." They are clearly fine with being in the "POC club", there are multiple advantages to being in that position in this country. White people pay the majority of taxes here, but there is no affirmative action for white people for example. And nobody ever focuses on helping white people in poverty, and there are PLENTY of them. Hell, I knew a guy who didn't even have a birth certificate, the dude ate roadkill for fuck sake. Idk, maybe his family preferred living that way. But if white people were as privileged as you imply, seems there'd at least be more cases of people pretending to be "white" the same way some "white" people pretend to be some other ethnicity to get into colleges or fill some job position or whatever other things people can get handed to them for their race. Also, every metric you used to determine the benefits of "whiteness", east Asians actually have to an even higher degree. Where's all the talk about "asian privilege"? I mean, I have heard some lefties say "Asians are the white people of minorities" and they do get discriminated against sometimes but it would seem to be a much bigger topic if people really were serious about the things they talk about in the context of being "white." Speaking of Asians, I wonder if any non Asians in their countries ever talk about asian privilege. I only hear about this kind of stuff in European or pan-European countries for some reason. Seems that no matter how oppressed people say they are here, they have it better than they would living literally anywhere else in the world.
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Edited by Eminence (09/12/20 12:40 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: qman] 2
#26931662 - 09/12/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Why can't POC form their own racial identities and only white people can do it?
They can, and do. White people just pretend they dont exist or have any validity in the real world and choose to pick a fight over being entitled to say n*gger too.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
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Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Eminence] 1
#26931671 - 09/12/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Eminence said: Every other person in the world can look at someone and determine if they're "white" or not.
Of course they can, but that's irrelevant for the point I'm making. My point is that there's a difference between, say, a Mexican laborer thinking I'm white and, say, a white hiring manager believing I'm white. Race doesn't have the same implication when you strip it from cultural context.
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Eminence said: And none of the other non "white" people ever complain about not being able to get into the "white club."
I didn't say that people outside of the white race wish they could be white. That's absurd. I said that people outside of the white race wish they could enjoy the same privileges that white people enjoy. It's not so much "I wish I was in your club" as it is "I wish our clubhouse was as nice as yours."
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Eminence said: They are clearly fine with being in the "POC club", there are multiple advantages to being in that position in this country.
The more socially privileged race speaking on behalf of disadvantaged races is part of the problem.
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Eminence said: White people pay the majority of taxes here, but there is no affirmative action for white people for example.
White people pay the majority of taxes in the US because we form the majority of the population and because we earn the most money. The fact that white people pay the most taxes in the US, if anything, is evidence of the disadvantages of being non-white (being a minority, generally earning less money, etc.).
Affirmative action has absolutely nothing to do with taxes and everything to do with representation. Affirmative action for white people in the US doesn't make any sense because white people are already well represented in most lines of work in the US.
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Eminence said: And nobody ever focuses on helping white people in poverty, and there are PLENTY of them.
To say that nobody ever focuses on helping white people in poverty is completely hyperbolic, and you know it. What people do tend to focus on is that people of color are disproportionately affected by poverty in comparison to white people.
Here's a question: if you really care so much about helping white people in poverty, why wouldn't you care about helping people of color in poverty? They make up a higher portion of the impoverished population, so pulling them out of poverty is going to require a systemic change in economic policy. If we helped people of color get out of poverty by enacting policies that make loans more forgiving, college more financially accessible, create more social aide programs, make healthcare more affordable, and more, this would not only pull people of color out of poverty, but would also help to pull white people out of poverty. Helping people of color get out of poverty means helping everyone get out of poverty.
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Eminence said: But if white people were as privileged as you imply, seems there'd at least be more cases of people pretending to be "white" the same way some "white" people pretend to be some other ethnicity to get into colleges or fill some job position or whatever other things people can get handed to them for their race.
There are two problems with what you're saying here.
The first is that nobody can "pretend to be white" to avoid discrimination. The fact that someone is non-white is, in most cases, one of the first things someone will notice about another person. The reason you don't see cases of people pretending to be white is because that shit doesn't work.
Second of all, the fact that white people can pretend to be some other ethnicity to take advantage of affirmative action policies is an example of white privilege. That is literally what white privilege means. The fact that white people can lie and say they have a native American ancestor on their college application, but it means absolutely nothing if a real native American lied about being white on the same application is exactly what it means for white people to have privileges that native Americans do not.
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Eminence said: Also, every metric you used to determine the benefits of "whiteness", east Asians actually have to an even higher degree.
That's not true at all. First of all, there are almost no east Asian people who hold positions of political power in the US. Second of all, most east Asians that participate in the American economy don't live in the US. Most of them live in east Asia, and they work for us by manufacturing our goods. They make our computers and iPhones, often working for 18 hours per day in shitty factories where they have nets up that discourage workers from committing suicide on the job. That is the role of most east Asians in the American hierarchy: they make almost all of our stuff. They hold a position below an impoverished man on American soil. They are nameless laborers, not even worthy of consideration.
The fact that there were a few east Asians who were skilled and wealthy enough to be allowed to immigrate to the US is not an example of "Asian privilege", it's an example of wealth. In order to leave east Asia and come to the US and work the high-profile jobs that Asian immigrants tend to work in the US, you need to be extremely wealthy. The vast majority of east Asians live in east Asia, where a large number of them work shitty jobs manufacturing goods for American consumers while receiving almost no pay.
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Eminence said: Speaking of Asians, I wonder if any non Asians in their countries ever talk about asian privilege.
It's possible, but I don't know. I've never been to Asia, and I don't speak any Asian languages. I think that would be a really fascinating topic to investigate, though.
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Eminence said: I only hear about this kind of stuff in European or pan-European countries for some reason.
That's probably because you're an English speaker.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Urinal Grease
Weird Brown Stain



Registered: 09/07/20
Posts: 67
Last seen: 3 years, 23 days
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Asante]
#26932239 - 09/12/20 05:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: There are way more "races" within the subsaharan population of Africa than in the rest of the world combined.
Gonna need a source on this one.
Edited by Urinal Grease (09/12/20 05:35 PM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Urinal Grease]
#26932252 - 09/12/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Asante]
#26932293 - 09/12/20 06:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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You know that even if the out of africa theory is true, it doesn't mean everyone started out as "black" people, or that they are the original example of modern humans right? There's been multiple archaeological findings that poke holes in that theory. Multiple times, science has refused to update info for the mainstream and have a different approach if a finding comes along that invalidates years of research. There's also been evidence of a "back into Africa" migration. Sub saharans were originally assumed to have no Neanderthal DNA, and that it was just everyone else that had it, until a few years ago when they found that DNA that was introduced to Africa around 20,000 or so years ago. They have some of the oldest DNA in the world, but that "ghost dna" I mentioned doesn't come from homo sapien sapiens. The first anatomically modern humans came from Eurasia up to 40,000 years ago. That is cro magnon, another homo sapien hominid. From the most recent evidence in relation to these findings, it is starting to look like modern sub saharan Africans are a result of an archaic human and modern human hybrid. If this is true, then it would essentially imply the opposite of the out of Africa theory. But either way, it shows that modern humans are not fully comprised of one hominid that just adapted and changed skin tones and average height and other genotypes, but a mix of different subspecies of humans. If everyone started from the same original source, everyone's blood type should be compatible with each other but that's not the case. The problem with this in today's society, is this would be called racist and offensive, no matter how much truth there might be to it.
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Urinal Grease
Weird Brown Stain



Registered: 09/07/20
Posts: 67
Last seen: 3 years, 23 days
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Asante]
#26932310 - 09/12/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 18 minutes, 4 seconds
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Eminence] 3
#26932992 - 09/13/20 08:01 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said: You know that even if the out of africa theory is true, it doesn't mean everyone started out as "black" people, or that they are the original example of modern humans right? There's been multiple archaeological findings that poke holes in that theory.
Competing theories are common within evolutionary anthropology. By all means, provide links to these "multiple archeological findings".
Quote:
Eminence said: Multiple times, science has refused to update info for the mainstream and have a different approach if a finding comes along that invalidates years of research. The first anatomically modern humans came from Eurasia up to 40,000 years ago. That is cro magnon, another homo sapien hominid.
Looks like you need to take your own advice: "As of 2017, the oldest known skeleton of an anatomically modern human is the Omo-Kibish I (SW Ethiopia), which dates to about 196,000 years ago."
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Eminence said: If everyone started from the same original source, everyone's blood type should be compatible with each other but that's not the case. The problem with this in today's society, is this would be called racist and offensive, no matter how much truth there might be to it.
There's no truth to pseudoscience like that claim about blood type - have you never heard of genetic mutation? It's racist and offensive because it's a false statement intended to provide the semblance of empirical evidence that justifies racism (racial discrimination) - but I wouldn't expect someone still defending the fascist terrorist who killed Heather Heyer to have the necessary self-awareness.
So, care to try and back up that bullshit you just spewed?
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26933096 - 09/13/20 09:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm gonna have to read more about omo before I say anything about it. I'm seeing from articles and literature all the way up to 2018 that cro magnon was still the first fully anatomically and genetically modern human.
And you're not going to shame me by continuing to bring up that post. But why have you never addressed the details I mentioned about that incident? You can't say I'm defending a guy that killed someone without even mentioning the dude who literally bragged about chasing him off in that direction with a rifle. Not a detail you should be ignoring.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26933100 - 09/13/20 09:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I too find it lacking in eminence.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 18 minutes, 4 seconds
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: Eminence] 1
#26933232 - 09/13/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said: I'm gonna have to read more about omo before I say anything about it. I'm seeing from articles and literature all the way up to 2018 that cro magnon was still the first fully anatomically and genetically modern human.
Please, share these articles so we can all examine them. Unless the articles are specifically disagreeing with the implications of the Omo remains, it's possible that these articles were written and submitted before having an opportunity to study the newest findings - which would explain why your only seeing things up to the year 2018.
While you're reading, take the time to check out the Florisbad skull (South Africa ~260,000ya) and Jebel Irhoud (Morocco ~300,000ya).
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Edited by shivas.wisdom (09/13/20 11:15 AM)
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 6,067
Loc: Not Wisconsin
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26934107 - 09/13/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Some black peoples perspective on BLM....
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? *DELETED* [Re: The Influence]
#26934517 - 09/14/20 04:27 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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During The Troubles in Ireland there were approximately 10,000 bombing attacks and about 35,000 sniper attacks.
But yeah, America is overrun by terrorism.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Asante]
#26935506 - 09/14/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Portland motorist assaulted for intervening in a robbery?
Too bad he didn't carry any protection.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26935602 - 09/14/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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That would be the day I'd drive down into that shithole without a lot of backup plans. People are naive about things and they usually suffer the consequences for it.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,837
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26935657 - 09/14/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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We've discussed that incident at length already, have we not?
Maybe not, I get social media mixed up at times. In any event, is there any evidence aside from the video title that this man was attacked for intervening in a robbery?
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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