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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Is WBS always this delicate?
    #26835535 - 07/21/20 07:13 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hi All,

Well, for increase surface area and  lignin I thought I’d add WBS at 20% to my oats for this round of jars. I use Bods oat tek as my base but with a strict 25 min max for the boil if using LC, LI, or SSLC. This bag of oats or my elevation plus 2 hr PC won’t allow for further boiling. So after reading several WBS tek I though a good starting point would be to get the oats going and soon as I reduce heat on the oats I:

Measure out WBS
Rinse
Set aside
@17-18 min into the oats boil I added the WBS
cut the heat at 25 min
Remove from the pot about 1/4 or more of the water until it’s 1-.5” above boiled grains and save to be filtered for agar plates
Toss in gypsum
Stir It in well
Pour all into large colanders
Drain a min or two then pour out over beach towels laid across counter tops
With the base of the sauce pan used to remove water in the step above I gently level out the grains with a side to side motion like spreading icing on a cake
The grains cool but do not get cold before I jar them up
Into the presto PC at 15-17 psi ( the a/c causes fluctuations depending on load) for 120 min and 10 min steam blow off starting a few min after the initial pressure valve locks in place
I also have a single quarter glued to the safety vent which begins to sputter and release @17.5 ish
After the cool down on the stove and burner I pop the lid when I hear the valve drop
Remove the jars with a claw and tighten the lids as I’m moving them to a towel on the counter
At this point I notice maybe a few burst seeds but they look good and move freely if jostled a bit

I did not pay attention not to settle the grain when originally loading the jars. So between hitting the 700ml mark and settling the grains by tapping and shaking level I overloaded the jars a bit.
Fast forward about 4-5 hrs and they were knocked up with semi solid LC at about 16-18 ml each.
Reason for the variations is 21 jars with 3 different LC
With plain oats I can toss up to 30ml sometimes and be fine
With a few slow sets of colonizers I once had to pop the lids in front of the FH to add moisture as the syringe filter ports were choking them out and the grains dried
I pulled em out and they took off under micro pour tape

Anyway as you can imagine shaking these jars took extra effort to get the SSLC mixed in with no noticeable wet spots
I’m looking at the jars this morning and the number of burst grains is concerning

What can I expect with the jars in this condition?
Aside from reducing the shaking by no overloading the jars how do I cut down on over processing the seeds?
Just rinse toss in and mix while oats are spread out and skip the 8 min boil? Cut it to 3-5 min?

Cut out WBS all together? Ha ha

Oh boy...


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26835541 - 07/21/20 07:18 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yes.. why fuck with wbs when you have oats?

Mixing grains isnt really done. Not that you cant but why bother?

Boil wbs maybe 5min tops. Or dont and just soak it 12-24hrs. 25min wbs boil is going to be a bad time every time.


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OfflineAtmozFear
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: mushboy]
    #26835591 - 07/21/20 07:53 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
25min wbs boil is going to be a bad time every time.



I've done that, sludge everywhere... still can't get it completely off my floor (spilled some) :facepalm3:


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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: mushboy]
    #26836958 - 07/21/20 07:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks guys - the WBS was only boiled for 8 min. I didn't make that too clear. It was added into the 25 min oat boil at 17-18 min. So it boiled 8 min. Sat in the boiling water another 2 before straining then endured a 2 hr PC. I figured I could treat it similar to rye grass seed.

        Nope

Having never worked with WBS I thought I'd give it a go considering the increased surface area and more overall mycelium. Also something new for this strain to munch on as this is the 3rd gen over 4 months with the same trays, notes, and subs. I'm almost out of dried potato. Maybe I toss this in the ninja and make powder of the seed for trays. Or maybe I just toss it outside for its intended purpose. The birds.


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InvisibleDrboomer
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26838094 - 07/22/20 11:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Try rinsing the end till water goes clear,strain and pour in a bucket,boiling about twice the volume if water on the stove, dump in bucket, let it sit 45 mins to overnight, strain and rinse with hot or boiling water, let it dry, load and pc.

If that's too much just rinse till it goes clear, strain, put it ina bucket with twice the volume of water, let it sit 24 hours. Rinse with hot water, let dry, load and pc.

Any boil Tek I've tried with wbs ends up goopy, overly wet, and just a mess. Same with no prep because if the different grain percentages. The first and second rinse are essential, it rinses of excess starch that makes goop.

Like mush boy said though mixing grain and grain preps is not worth it. Prep and use them seperate


Edited by Drboomer (07/22/20 11:45 AM)


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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Drboomer]
    #26839252 - 07/22/20 08:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Drboomer said:
Try rinsing the end till water goes clear,strain and pour in a bucket,boiling about twice the volume if water on the stove, dump in bucket, let it sit 45 mins to overnight, strain and rinse with hot or boiling water, let it dry, load and pc.

If that's too much just rinse till it goes clear, strain, put it ina bucket with twice the volume of water, let it sit 24 hours. Rinse with hot water, let dry, load and pc.

Any boil Tek I've tried with wbs ends up goopy, overly wet, and just a mess. Same with no prep because if the different grain percentages. The first and second rinse are essential, it rinses of excess starch that makes goop.

Like mush boy said though mixing grain and grain preps is not worth it. Prep and use them seperate




Thank you


I remember reading a thread where RR does a rinse short soak, and I mean short, then load jars and PC. The excess moisture from surface tension was sufficient in the pc to hydrate further. I should have followed that logic. Not sure where I pulled 8 min outta my ass. My concern for boiled bird seed in a 120 min PC was legitimate. The jars look good and I’m surprised to see the rate at which the PE6 hit the grain running. 😂 I mean everywhere tiny star burts of mycelium top to bottom.

Using cuticle scissors I trimmed mycelium that was standing straight in the air. I forced them fuzzy by cutting riz in 1/4” agar chunks to plain water plates. As soon as the mycelium branch out and realize there is zero nutrients in all directions it puffs. I wanted to create an LC from the tiny individual strands. Faith in needle jab biopics didn’t agree with me. These tiny trimmings magnetically mixed to a froth twice a day in semi solid LC maintained separation. Could absolutely be a fluke. The coverage is total. Only in these jars from this LC. The other 14 look like all else I’ve witnessed.

I’m interested to see it interact with the increased surface area WBS provides.

Closing thought. If smaller spheres provide more surface are does it follow the resource is depleted sooner? Would then a mix of staggered duration have any effect on yield and could this delta be used to an advantage with characteristics of certain varieties?

Sorry to muck up the waters with my rambling. Happy to be here and appreciate this community.


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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26855031 - 07/31/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So I missed the fact WBS needs a long soak to activate endospores.

Yeah

This bit me on all of these jars.

Lesson learned


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26855102 - 07/31/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

WBS doesn’t need a soak for that. No grains do, though the soak can maybe help with moisture content. The endospore thing is old stuff and soaking can greatly increase the numbers. When I started using WBS I used Fooman’s method (Quick and with no soak) and it always worked great, now I do no prep WBS and found the perfect ratio (for Pennington classic wild bird food) to be 275g WBS straight from the bag to 150g water. I’ve done 40-50 no prep jars so far and they’ve all been good.


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Heaven starts right where hell ends


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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26855480 - 07/31/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Roger Clemency said:
WBS doesn’t need a soak for that. No grains do, though the soak can maybe help with moisture content. The endospore thing is old stuff and soaking can greatly increase the numbers. When I started using WBS I used Fooman’s method (Quick and with no soak) and it always worked great, now I do no prep WBS and found the perfect ratio (for Pennington classic wild bird food) to be 275g WBS straight from the bag to 150g water. I’ve done 40-50 no prep jars so far and they’ve all been good.




Right on

WBS is your preference?

If it wasn’t something in the bird seed the. I may have somehow contaminated these semi solid liquid cultures. Thing is I used The water from the boil of the first jars to create the medium in these SSLC. WBS was added to both sets of jars one week apart.

I have another post where I’ve picked up an unidentifiable contaminate from a spore syringe. Like a complete dumb ass I assumed the growth was aerial mycelium and opened a plate in fron of the flow hood a while back. I thought I got by unscathed with all the air purifiers and HEPA in the a/c. I’m coming to realize this shit has spread in my grow room and possibly beyond.

I just poured a sample of every LC to a test plate. Ran sterile swabs in my tubs and put to plates. To test the air I have plates in every room of the house open for the next 30 min to an hour.

I keep original plates after I cut a transfer in a section of a closet.  Looking through them a few of the older plates not from the guy who sent the ESS have this spiked puff contam. FML

Is FB it possible this contam is in my flow hood HEPA surface?


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26855523 - 07/31/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Spaghettio73 said:
Ran sterile swabs in my tubs and put to plates. To test the air I have plates in every room of the house open for the next 30 min to an hour.





Whats the point of this? They will all be moldy because mold spores are everywhere. Especially the tub swabs:confused:


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OfflineGan
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26855550 - 07/31/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Roger Clemency said:
WBS doesn’t need a soak for that. No grains do, though the soak can maybe help with moisture content. The endospore thing is old stuff and soaking can greatly increase the numbers. When I started using WBS I used Fooman’s method (Quick and with no soak) and it always worked great, now I do no prep WBS and found the perfect ratio (for Pennington classic wild bird food) to be 275g WBS straight from the bag to 150g water. I’ve done 40-50 no prep jars so far and they’ve all been good.




I use Pennington classic as well. Do you wash it and skim off the sunflower seeds prior to loading the jars with the ratio you mentioned?


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Gan]
    #26855784 - 07/31/20 04:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I had actually never really used WBS before but I moved since the last time I was growing and just picked up a bag at Walmart one day and I love it. I’m not sure what you have going on there with this spiky contam but it doesn’t sound good lol. Maybe time for a deep clean of your stuff and maybe starting new cultures.

Gan - I just throw it right in the jars from the bag. If I see any sticks or rocks on top I grab them but that’s it. I do prefer the looks of the grain when I do it the Fooman way but no prep is just so simple and quick and the myc doesn’t care either way.

The only thing with no prep is you have to shake the jars well right out of the PC. I let it drop pressure and wait maybe 20-30 min before opening and then take them out and shake. The bottom Inch or so will be clumped and you wanna break it up but it’s not difficult. I found the best way is to hold the jar sideways and shake it in front of you like forward and back and allow the loose top grains to sand blast pieces of grain off the bottom clump until it’s halfway gone. If you let the clump break loose too soon it’s harder to break up because there’s not much space for everything to move around.

Before during and after the shake. I shake them once or twice the next day as well but it would probably be fine to use them the same day once they cool.



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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: mushboy]
    #26856046 - 07/31/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Spaghettio73 said:
Ran sterile swabs in my tubs and put to plates. To test the air I have plates in every room of the house open for the next 30 min to an hour.





Whats the point of this? They will all be moldy because mold spores are everywhere. Especially the tub swabs:confused:




No doubt but I’m looking for this







Little demon

I mistook it for ESS mycelium on a plate germinated from spore syringe. I acts like cube mycelium except it will not grow larger than 1/4” diameter. It will however spread itself everywhere. I opened a plate in front of the hood a while back. Thought I got lucky and the air scrubbers cleaned up.

Nope


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InvisibleSpaghettio73
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26856050 - 07/31/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well

Seems I also have Pennington.



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OfflineMycochopper
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Spaghettio73]
    #26856201 - 07/31/20 08:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Was watching a video of a commercial grow where was used without rinsing and 50% water by weight in jars and 38% water by weight for bags was just added before the pc process and no boiling was used.  He skipped a step or two and thats been his process for years.  Could work?


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26856227 - 07/31/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Roger Clemency said:





that looks like a sticky mess man:sad: numerous exploded grains and a white filminess.

i soak my wbs all day i hate 'prepping' it other than soak and drain.


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: mushboy]
    #26856231 - 07/31/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

No it’s good. When you zoom in they do look sticky but you can get all the grain apart in separate  pieces. Try it out

Even less prep than soaking.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26856232 - 07/31/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

imma scurd.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: mushboy]
    #26856315 - 07/31/20 09:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Bring your pc full of water to a boil, turn off burner and wait for bubbles to settle,
pour in wbs,
do one stir if you want,
put the lid on and let it sit for an hour,
pour water and floaters out in strainer, fill with cold water and pour out with floaters,
repeat until water is clean,
pour and strain remaining wbs,
let sit to dry,
load and pc for 2 hours


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OfflineCatsLoveHouseMusic
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Re: Is WBS always this delicate? [Re: mushboy]
    #26856406 - 07/31/20 10:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So mush you like oats more than WBS? I’ve only ever used WBS and not good with change.


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