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epilectric
low dose


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swiss liquid - stomach trouble
#26833856 - 07/20/20 09:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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a question primarily adressed to the more experienced users who have been around for several years:
i have this batch of swiss liquid that comes on quicker than other (equally strong) batches of liquid i had. it has pronounced effects along the spectrum of the acid experience. euphoria, complex fractals and patterning, pleasurable body feeling.. however, everytime when i dose, after ~4hours, i get a kind of stomach ache that seems to be somewhat responsive to what i eat but never seems to quite go away until the end of the trip. usually when it stops, i know that the trip is finally over.
certain stomach uneasiness is common with most acid trips, but with this particular batch, it seems to be more pronounced than with any other. none of the other batches i can recall, induced it with this certainty and consistency.
apart from that, i really enjoy this batch because it is very reliable in it's delivery of effects. but the stomach cramps or however i should call it (it kind of feels hot/acidic) makes the experience unenjoyable for significant parts of the trip.
do you think that these effects may be attributable to certain ergot alkaloids that haven't been cleaned out in the manufacturing process? or is it because the acid comes up so quickly? another batch of liquid i have had (some GDF) has a way later come up but the stomach effect is much less pronounced, but the other desirable effects are just as strong. the visuals were actually more colourful with the GDF (i have tried both swiss and GDF alternately for several times and the two really do have distinguishable effects along the spectrum, others have confirmed this). the swiss also has very pronounced effects but kicks in less smooth and gentle, wondering what the reasons might be..?
i know that the liquid is swiss bc i live in austria which is close to switzerland and the vial was picked up there... the GDF came from the US
Edited by epilectric (07/20/20 09:26 AM)
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Rapjack
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
#26833930 - 07/20/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Could be fluffed vs not fluffed. American stuff is almost always made into fluff, perhaps it's a matter of which receptors get activated more. I know that one of the serotonin sites that psilocin affects can cause stomach aches / nausea so perhaps it's similar? Just my uneducated guess, it seems that low quality isn't as common as before.
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epilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Rapjack]
#26833971 - 07/20/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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yes, it's certainly a matter of serotonin receptors... is "fluffing" the chromatographic process?
Quote:
Rapjack said: Could be fluffed vs not fluffed. American stuff is almost always made into fluff, perhaps it's a matter of which receptors get activated more. I know that one of the serotonin sites that psilocin affects can cause stomach aches / nausea so perhaps it's similar? Just my uneducated guess, it seems that low quality isn't as common as before.
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Rapjack
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
#26833991 - 07/20/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the scientific term is "ionization". It's an extra optional step they do post-purification, all I know about it is that it turns a dense crystal into loose needle "fluff" and that it alters the effects. IME fluff is more euphoric, less edgy but also less / different visuals compared to Swiss. Pretty sure Owsley or his team figured that one out.
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epilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Rapjack]
#26834031 - 07/20/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rapjack said: I think the scientific term is "ionization". It's an extra optional step they do post-purification, all I know about it is that it turns a dense crystal into loose needle "fluff" and that it alters the effects. IME fluff is more euphoric, less edgy but also less / different visuals compared to Swiss. Pretty sure Owsley or his team figured that one out.
yes, this describes the difference accurately. thanks for that one!
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Typerwritermonky
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
#26834382 - 07/20/20 02:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seems like slightly impure LSD or overstimulation of serotonin receptors in your stomach. First off, try taking some Tums (calcium carbonate) that are available at the pharmacy or any grocery store. As well, add some simethicone (Gas-X) available at the same places Tums are. That should help a lot.
As well, order some Essential lemon oil meant for oral ingestion. That will help calm and satisfy the serotonin receptors in your stomach that are potentally responsible for what's going on. Other then that, note exactly what you are eating and make sure it's something not oily, very easily digestable, etc.
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Rapjack
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Taking notes for next time. Thanks for those tips!
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epilectric
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we don't have that stuff in austria calcium carbonate yes, but the other.. any natural alternatives? ginger maybe..
Quote:
Typerwritermonky said: Seems like slightly impure LSD or overstimulation of serotonin receptors in your stomach. First off, try taking some Tums (calcium carbonate) that are available at the pharmacy or any grocery store. As well, add some simethicone (Gas-X) available at the same places Tums are. That should help a lot.
As well, order some Essential lemon oil meant for oral ingestion. That will help calm and satisfy the serotonin receptors in your stomach that are potentally responsible for what's going on. Other then that, note exactly what you are eating and make sure it's something not oily, very easily digestable, etc.
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Typerwritermonky
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
#26836513 - 07/21/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can definitely get simethicone, it's a very common OTC drug. As well as essential lemon oil should easily be available to order online. Ginger might help, but isn't exactly for what you seem to be complaining of.
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epilectric
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Quote:
Typerwritermonky said: You can definitely get simethicone, it's a very common OTC drug. As well as essential lemon oil should easily be available to order online. Ginger might help, but isn't exactly for what you seem to be complaining of.
okay you're right, it's available at the pharmacy. i tried eating ginger root yesterday, it did help momentarily but the stomach sensation came back eventually.. i think it mainly is a sensual/perceptual issue rather than a medical one... but idk fs
Edited by epilectric (07/22/20 10:37 AM)
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Typerwritermonky
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
#26838517 - 07/22/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Eh it definitely can just be the perception/sensations of the serotonin receptors in your stomach being activated. But that's what the lemon essential oil is for, if it is that.
You can try taking magnesium an hour beforehand as well to relax the smooth muscles in your stomach to see if that helps as well. Magnesium, calcium carbonate, simethicone and essential lemon oil are all very safe things to take that will have no effect on the trip, only your body. If you take all of those, and something still feels amiss - then perhaps it's just that batch of LSD.
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Azure Essence


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From David Nichols:
Quote:
If LSD is purified, usually by chromatography of some kind, it should always be the same. The original synthesis method is not crucial, although some methods may make it harder to purify the LSD than others.
Because LSD is so potent, there is no impurity potent enough to fit on a blotter that would affect the psychopharmacology of LSD. Years ago, realizing that a major impurity might be isoLSD, we examined the pharmacology of isoLSD. It had no significant effect at any receptor system we examined. If the LSD comes in a capsule, or tablet, then all bets are off because you could put all kinds of things in something that size.
Variability in effects is most often related to set and setting. For example, if someone buys a blotter and is told that it is standard commercial blotter, and then is sold another blotter (for much higher price!) and is told, “This blotter contains LSD originally synthesized by Hofmann himself at Sandoz laboratories” it is a safe bet that the “Hofmann LSD” will be given rave reviews compared to the conventional blotter. Most people in the street would not realize that it is not possible to get Sandoz LSD. I read years ago where someone said that they bought a particular psychedelic that “came out of Sasha’s lab.” I wrote to them that Sasha never put his compounds on the street, and that it was purely a marketing gimmick.
Edited by Azure Essence (07/22/20 09:56 PM)
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The Blind Ass
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence] 1
#26839284 - 07/22/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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epilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence] 1
#26839826 - 07/23/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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i have to disagree. there are definitive differences between batches of LSD, that are NOT attributable to set and setting. i have taken different types on different occasions without expectations and had definitely distinguishable effects that others who have taken the same types have confirmed. it's not just about iso-LSD, it's much more complicated than that. there are other ergot alkaloids present that do have effects on the body and psyche or act as imperfect keys at the receptor sites. depending on how well the synthesis and cleaning was done, these may or not be present and contribute to the effects.
Quote:
Azure Essence said: From David Nichols:
Quote:
If LSD is purified, usually by chromatography of some kind, it should always be the same. The original synthesis method is not crucial, although some methods may make it harder to purify the LSD than others.
Because LSD is so potent, there is no impurity potent enough to fit on a blotter that would affect the psychopharmacology of LSD. Years ago, realizing that a major impurity might be isoLSD, we examined the pharmacology of isoLSD. It had no significant effect at any receptor system we examined. If the LSD comes in a capsule, or tablet, then all bets are off because you could put all kinds of things in something that size.
Variability in effects is most often related to set and setting. For example, if someone buys a blotter and is told that it is standard commercial blotter, and then is sold another blotter (for much higher price!) and is told, “This blotter contains LSD originally synthesized by Hofmann himself at Sandoz laboratories” it is a safe bet that the “Hofmann LSD” will be given rave reviews compared to the conventional blotter. Most people in the street would not realize that it is not possible to get Sandoz LSD. I read years ago where someone said that they bought a particular psychedelic that “came out of Sasha’s lab.” I wrote to them that Sasha never put his compounds on the street, and that it was purely a marketing gimmick.
Edited by epilectric (07/23/20 05:53 AM)
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Azure Essence


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric] 1
#26840152 - 07/23/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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You are disagreeing with one of the world's foremost expert on psychedelics, and the single living person who has probably worked with LSD the most, aside from Albert Hofmann himself. David Nichols has been working with LSD probably since before you were born.
I'll take his word for it over yours.
Edited by Azure Essence (07/23/20 11:27 AM)
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epilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence] 1
#26840739 - 07/23/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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i'm not doubting what david nichols said but tim scully who has produced orange sunshine and learned about the synthesis of LSD in 1966 by stanley owsley does believe in purity in regards to effects, as he explains here:
i'll take his word over yours 😊
Quote:
Azure Essence said: You are disagreeing with one of the world's foremost expert on psychedelics, and the single living person who has probably worked with LSD the most, aside from Albert Hofmann himself. David Nichols has been working with LSD probably since before you were born.
I'll take his word for it over yours.
Edited by epilectric (07/23/20 02:06 PM)
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Azure Essence


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric] 1
#26840753 - 07/23/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not claiming anything, I'm relaying information by the worlds leading LSD researcher who was studying LSD since before you were born. You're a guy on a forum posting about tummy aches with other breakout posts such as "LSD is evil" and "can I take mushrooms at a party".
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Azure Essence


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That video is him just talking about purity, and he never once even suggests that it has different effects. 98% pure LSD is just more LSD than 80% pure.
If you have 100ugs on a blotter of 98% pure LSD, that's 98ugs of LSD. If you have 100ugs of 80% pure LSD, that's only 80ugs LSD. So yeah, 98ug is better than 80ug, but he never mentions different effects. The only change in effect would be the change in dose between 98ug and 80ug.
Edited by Azure Essence (07/23/20 02:28 PM)
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epilectric
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yes, i know that standpoint very well, but after eating many different kinds of acid over the course of 17 years, since i first tried it, i personally have to disagree. i do not know WHY, i'm neither a chemist, nor do i know any acid chemists, but my experience does not match what you say, for whatever reason.
Quote:
Azure Essence said: That video is him just talking about purity, and he never once even suggests that it has different effects. 98% pure LSD is just more LSD than 80% pure.
If you have 100ugs on a blotter of 98% pure LSD, that's 98ugs of LSD. If you have 100ugs of 80% pure LSD, that's only 80ugs LSD. So yeah, 98ug is better than 80ug, but he never mentions different effects. The only change in effect would be the change in dose between 98ug and 80ug.
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Typerwritermonky
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Quote:
Azure Essence said: You are disagreeing with one of the world's foremost expert on psychedelics, and the single living person who has probably worked with LSD the most, aside from Albert Hofmann himself. David Nichols has been working with LSD probably since before you were born.
I'll take his word for it over yours.
He's not disagreeing with him. The quote you presented has him saying studying isoLSD as a impurity that causes issues. epilectric then said he things it's something else that is causing it other then isoLSD.
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