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Offlineepilectric
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swiss liquid - stomach trouble
    #26833856 - 07/20/20 09:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

a question primarily adressed to the more experienced users who have been around for several years:

i have this batch of swiss liquid that comes on quicker than other (equally strong) batches of liquid i had. it has pronounced effects along the spectrum of the acid experience. euphoria, complex fractals and patterning, pleasurable body feeling.. however, everytime when i dose, after ~4hours, i get a kind of stomach ache that seems to be somewhat responsive to what i eat but never seems to quite go away until the end of the trip. usually when it stops, i know that the trip is finally over.

certain stomach uneasiness is common with most acid trips, but with this particular batch, it seems to be more pronounced than with any other. none of the other batches i can recall, induced it with this certainty and consistency.

apart from that, i really enjoy this batch because it is very reliable in it's delivery of effects. but the stomach cramps or however i should call it (it kind of feels hot/acidic) makes the experience unenjoyable for significant parts of the trip.

do you think that these effects may be attributable to certain ergot alkaloids that haven't been cleaned out in the manufacturing process? or is it because the acid comes up so quickly? another batch of liquid i have had (some GDF) has a way later come up but the stomach effect is much less pronounced, but the other desirable effects are just as strong. the visuals were actually more colourful with the GDF (i have tried both swiss and GDF alternately for several times and the two really do have distinguishable effects along the spectrum, others have confirmed this). the swiss also has very pronounced effects but kicks in less smooth and gentle, wondering what the reasons might be..?

i know that the liquid is swiss bc i live in austria which is close to switzerland and the vial was picked up there... the GDF came from the US


Edited by epilectric (07/20/20 09:26 AM)


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OfflineRapjack
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26833930 - 07/20/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Could be fluffed vs not fluffed. American stuff is almost always made into fluff, perhaps it's a matter of which receptors get activated more. I know that one of the serotonin sites that psilocin affects can cause stomach aches / nausea so perhaps it's similar? Just my uneducated guess, it seems that low quality isn't as common as before.


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Rapjack]
    #26833971 - 07/20/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

yes, it's certainly a matter of serotonin receptors... is "fluffing" the chromatographic process?

Quote:

Rapjack said:
Could be fluffed vs not fluffed. American stuff is almost always made into fluff, perhaps it's a matter of which receptors get activated more. I know that one of the serotonin sites that psilocin affects can cause stomach aches / nausea so perhaps it's similar? Just my uneducated guess, it seems that low quality isn't as common as before.




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OfflineRapjack
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26833991 - 07/20/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I think the scientific term is "ionization". It's an extra optional step they do post-purification, all I know about it is that it turns a dense crystal into loose needle "fluff" and that it alters the effects. IME fluff is more euphoric, less edgy but also less / different visuals compared to Swiss. Pretty sure Owsley or his team figured that one out.


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Rapjack]
    #26834031 - 07/20/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rapjack said:
I think the scientific term is "ionization". It's an extra optional step they do post-purification, all I know about it is that it turns a dense crystal into loose needle "fluff" and that it alters the effects. IME fluff is more euphoric, less edgy but also less / different visuals compared to Swiss. Pretty sure Owsley or his team figured that one out.




yes, this describes the difference accurately. thanks for that one!


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26834382 - 07/20/20 02:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Seems like slightly impure LSD or overstimulation of serotonin receptors in your stomach.  First off, try taking some Tums (calcium carbonate) that are available at the pharmacy or any grocery store.  As well, add some simethicone (Gas-X) available at the same places Tums are.  That should help a lot.

As well, order some Essential lemon oil meant for oral ingestion.  That will help calm and satisfy the serotonin receptors in your stomach that are potentally responsible for what's going on.  Other then that, note exactly what you are eating and make sure it's something not oily, very easily digestable, etc.


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OfflineRapjack
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #26835038 - 07/20/20 08:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Taking notes for next time. Thanks for those tips!


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #26835864 - 07/21/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

we don't have that stuff in austria :laugh: calcium carbonate yes, but the other.. any natural alternatives? ginger maybe..

Quote:

Typerwritermonky said:
Seems like slightly impure LSD or overstimulation of serotonin receptors in your stomach.  First off, try taking some Tums (calcium carbonate) that are available at the pharmacy or any grocery store.  As well, add some simethicone (Gas-X) available at the same places Tums are.  That should help a lot.

As well, order some Essential lemon oil meant for oral ingestion.  That will help calm and satisfy the serotonin receptors in your stomach that are potentally responsible for what's going on.  Other then that, note exactly what you are eating and make sure it's something not oily, very easily digestable, etc.




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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26836513 - 07/21/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You can definitely get simethicone, it's a very common OTC drug.  As well as essential lemon oil should easily be available to order online.  Ginger might help, but isn't exactly for what you seem to be complaining of.


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #26837958 - 07/22/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Typerwritermonky said:
You can definitely get simethicone, it's a very common OTC drug.  As well as essential lemon oil should easily be available to order online.  Ginger might help, but isn't exactly for what you seem to be complaining of.




okay you're right, it's available at the pharmacy. i tried eating ginger root yesterday, it did help momentarily but the stomach sensation came back eventually.. i think it mainly is a sensual/perceptual issue rather than a medical one... but idk fs


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Edited by epilectric (07/22/20 10:37 AM)


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26838517 - 07/22/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Eh it definitely can just be the perception/sensations of the serotonin receptors in your stomach being activated.  But that's what the lemon essential oil is for, if it is that.

You can try taking magnesium an hour beforehand as well to relax the smooth muscles in your stomach to see if that helps as well.  Magnesium, calcium carbonate, simethicone and essential lemon oil are all very safe things to take that will have no effect on the trip, only your body.  If you take all of those, and something still feels amiss - then perhaps it's just that batch of LSD.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky] * 1
    #26839112 - 07/22/20 07:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

From David Nichols:

Quote:

If LSD is purified, usually by chromatography of some kind, it should always be the same.  The original synthesis method is not crucial, although some methods may make it harder to purify the LSD than others.

Because LSD is so potent, there is no impurity potent enough to fit on a blotter that would affect the psychopharmacology of LSD.  Years ago, realizing that a major impurity might be isoLSD, we examined the pharmacology of isoLSD.  It had  no significant effect at any receptor system we examined.  If the LSD comes in a capsule, or tablet, then all bets are off because you could put all kinds of things in something that size.

Variability in effects is most often related to set and setting.  For example, if someone buys a blotter and is told that it is standard commercial blotter, and then is sold another blotter (for much higher price!) and is told, “This blotter contains LSD originally synthesized by Hofmann himself at Sandoz laboratories” it is a safe bet that the “Hofmann LSD” will be given rave reviews compared to the conventional blotter.  Most people in the street would not realize that it is not possible to get Sandoz LSD.  I read years ago where someone said that they bought a particular psychedelic that “came out of Sasha’s lab.” I wrote to them that Sasha never put his compounds on the street, and that it was purely a marketing gimmick.




Edited by Azure Essence (07/22/20 09:56 PM)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence] * 1
    #26839284 - 07/22/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence] * 1
    #26839826 - 07/23/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

i have to disagree. there are definitive differences between batches of LSD, that are NOT attributable to set and setting. i have taken different types on different occasions without expectations and had definitely distinguishable effects that others who have taken the same types have confirmed. it's not just about iso-LSD, it's much more complicated than that. there are other ergot alkaloids present that do have effects on the body and psyche or act as imperfect keys at the receptor sites. depending on how well the synthesis and cleaning was done, these may or not be present and contribute to the effects.

Quote:

Azure Essence said:
From David Nichols:

Quote:

If LSD is purified, usually by chromatography of some kind, it should always be the same.  The original synthesis method is not crucial, although some methods may make it harder to purify the LSD than others.

Because LSD is so potent, there is no impurity potent enough to fit on a blotter that would affect the psychopharmacology of LSD.  Years ago, realizing that a major impurity might be isoLSD, we examined the pharmacology of isoLSD.  It had  no significant effect at any receptor system we examined.  If the LSD comes in a capsule, or tablet, then all bets are off because you could put all kinds of things in something that size.

Variability in effects is most often related to set and setting.  For example, if someone buys a blotter and is told that it is standard commercial blotter, and then is sold another blotter (for much higher price!) and is told, “This blotter contains LSD originally synthesized by Hofmann himself at Sandoz laboratories” it is a safe bet that the “Hofmann LSD” will be given rave reviews compared to the conventional blotter.  Most people in the street would not realize that it is not possible to get Sandoz LSD.  I read years ago where someone said that they bought a particular psychedelic that “came out of Sasha’s lab.” I wrote to them that Sasha never put his compounds on the street, and that it was purely a marketing gimmick.







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Edited by epilectric (07/23/20 05:53 AM)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #26840152 - 07/23/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You are disagreeing with one of the world's foremost expert on psychedelics, and the single living person who has probably worked with LSD the most, aside from Albert Hofmann himself. David Nichols has been working with LSD probably since before you were born.

I'll take his word for it over yours.


Edited by Azure Essence (07/23/20 11:27 AM)


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence] * 1
    #26840739 - 07/23/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

i'm not doubting what david nichols said but tim scully who has produced orange sunshine and learned about the synthesis of LSD in 1966 by stanley owsley does believe in purity in regards to effects, as he explains here:



i'll take his word over yours 😊



Quote:

Azure Essence said:
You are disagreeing with one of the world's foremost expert on psychedelics, and the single living person who has probably worked with LSD the most, aside from Albert Hofmann himself. David Nichols has been working with LSD probably since before you were born.

I'll take his word for it over yours.




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Edited by epilectric (07/23/20 02:06 PM)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #26840753 - 07/23/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not claiming anything, I'm relaying information by the worlds leading LSD researcher who was studying LSD since before you were born. You're a guy on a forum posting about tummy aches with other breakout posts such as "LSD is evil" and "can I take mushrooms at a party".


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26840797 - 07/23/20 02:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That video is him just talking about purity, and he never once even suggests that it has different effects. 98% pure LSD is just more LSD than 80% pure.

If you have 100ugs on a blotter of 98% pure LSD, that's 98ugs of LSD. If you have 100ugs of 80% pure LSD, that's only 80ugs LSD. So yeah, 98ug is better than 80ug, but he never mentions different effects. The only change in effect would be the change in dose between 98ug and 80ug.


Edited by Azure Essence (07/23/20 02:28 PM)


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26840804 - 07/23/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

yes, i know that standpoint very well, but after eating many different kinds of acid over the course of 17 years, since i first tried it, i personally have to disagree. i do not know WHY, i'm neither a chemist, nor do i know any acid chemists, but my experience does not match what you say, for whatever reason.

Quote:

Azure Essence said:
That video is him just talking about purity, and he never once even suggests that it has different effects. 98% pure LSD is just more LSD than 80% pure.

If you have 100ugs on a blotter of 98% pure LSD, that's 98ugs of LSD. If you have 100ugs of 80% pure LSD, that's only 80ugs LSD. So yeah, 98ug is better than 80ug, but he never mentions different effects. The only change in effect would be the change in dose between 98ug and 80ug.




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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26840830 - 07/23/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Azure Essence said:
You are disagreeing with one of the world's foremost expert on psychedelics, and the single living person who has probably worked with LSD the most, aside from Albert Hofmann himself. David Nichols has been working with LSD probably since before you were born.

I'll take his word for it over yours.




He's not disagreeing with him.  The quote you presented has him saying studying isoLSD as a impurity that causes issues.  epilectric then said he things it's something else that is causing it other then isoLSD.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #26840831 - 07/23/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That's how LSD works. 2 identical doses from the same batch can have wildly different effects. You'd think after 17 years you would have realized that, alas, some people prefer to think there different kind of LSD giving them different effects.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26840843 - 07/23/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

haha i knew that this answer would come. i actually liked to think what you said was true. but unfortunately, it's not

Quote:

Azure Essence said:
That's how LSD works. 2 identical doses from the same batch can have wildly different effects. You'd think after 17 years you would have realized that, alas, some people prefer to think there different kind of LSD giving them different effects.



Quote:

Azure Essence said:
That's how LSD works. 2 identical doses from the same batch can have wildly different effects. You'd think after 17 years you would have realized that, alas, some people prefer to think there different kind of LSD giving them different effects.




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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric] * 2
    #26840859 - 07/23/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'll bite on this one. Your anecdotal experience with a drug does not supersede decades of empirical evidence.

LSD is LSD but the effects leave a lot of variability in between.


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #26840876 - 07/23/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

yes, exactly. LSD is LSD but other ergot alkaloids are not LSD :laugh:

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
I'll bite on this one. Your anecdotal experience with a drug does not supersede decades of empirical evidence.

LSD is LSD but the effects leave a lot of variability in between.




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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26840887 - 07/23/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
yes, exactly. LSD is LSD but other ergot alkaloids are not LSD :laugh:

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
I'll bite on this one. Your anecdotal experience with a drug does not supersede decades of empirical evidence.

LSD is LSD but the effects leave a lot of variability in between.







And those ergot alkaloids are poison, you're talking about impurities like other LSD isomers.

Which are inactive, and if they are it's certainly not active in the 5-30 microgram range.


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Edited by Yukon Cornelius (07/23/20 03:24 PM)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #26840895 - 07/23/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

As David Nichols said,
Quote:

there is no impurity potent enough to fit on a blotter that would affect the psychopharmacology of LSD.




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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26840985 - 07/23/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

they are inactive on their own, but may still prevent the LSD molecules from plugging into the receptors, thus changing the subjective effects, resulting in bodyload etc.

yes, LSD is LSD. but impurities can affect it's effects, even if they are largely inactive on their own.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #26840996 - 07/23/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

and by the way, ergot alkaloids like 1p-lsd, eth-lad, ald-52 are all perfectly active in the microgram range. and they are by no means poison, not any more than LSD is.

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
Quote:

epilectric said:
yes, exactly. LSD is LSD but other ergot alkaloids are not LSD :laugh:

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
I'll bite on this one. Your anecdotal experience with a drug does not supersede decades of empirical evidence.

LSD is LSD but the effects leave a lot of variability in between.







And those ergot alkaloids are poison, you're talking about impurities like other LSD isomers.

Which are inactive, and if they are it's certainly not active in the 5-30 microgram range.



Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
Quote:

epilectric said:
yes, exactly. LSD is LSD but other ergot alkaloids are not LSD :laugh:

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
I'll bite on this one. Your anecdotal experience with a drug does not supersede decades of empirical evidence.

LSD is LSD but the effects leave a lot of variability in between.







And those ergot alkaloids are poison, you're talking about impurities like other LSD isomers.

Which are inactive, and if they are it's certainly not active in the 5-30 microgram range.




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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26841051 - 07/23/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I have no idea about this stuff but this thread does make me laugh

you seem so certain of the answer i'm pondering why you asked the question in the first place?


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: noodles-uk] * 1
    #26841073 - 07/23/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

i don't know for sure really WHY there are differences. i'm just trying to explain phenomenons of my experience to people who obstinately hold on to the belief that ALL LSD has exactly the same effects and that varying responses are 100% attributable to set and setting. i mean, how can you even know... it's hilarious.

anyway, i'm getting too tired of this discussion. thanks for your replies!

Quote:

noodles-uk said:
I have no idea about this stuff but this thread does make me laugh

you seem so certain of the answer i'm pondering why you asked the question in the first place?



Quote:

noodles-uk said:
I have no idea about this stuff but this thread does make me laugh

you seem so certain of the answer i'm pondering why you asked the question in the first place?




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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: noodles-uk]
    #26841083 - 07/23/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

noodles-uk said:
I have no idea about this stuff but this thread does make me laugh

you seem so certain of the answer i'm pondering why you asked the question in the first place?




Look at this users other posts, they're all pretty funny


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26841105 - 07/23/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

yea i'm a funny person.. which is kind of the opposite of dull. which is why i can sense a lot of what's going on 😊 peace out, good vibes


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26909261 - 08/31/20 08:00 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

did it again this saturday.. i finally realized that my stomach trouble is not directly cause by the acid, but rather a sensation that can come and go anytime in day to day life and is greatly amplified by the sensory enhancing effects and the triggering of serotonin receptors in the digestive tract.

still, i believe that different synth routes can cause slight variations at least in the onset of the effects. the swiss comes on faster while the fluff liquid starts 1-2h later, everytime. others have confirmed this.

i'm not saying that there is a difference between the LSD molecules or that impurities change the trip. but the speed of onset is different. and it's not an issue of set and setting, i have tried both of them in different situations and it's the same everytime: fluff comes on slow and smooth, swiss is fast and direct, for whatever reason.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26909835 - 08/31/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

L-LSD versus D-LSD - while both may be pure, only the right one D-LSD works.
if you have 50 mics of pure D-LSD it will be as good as 100 mics of racemic mixture pure lsd.

does the L-LSD make you sick? I think it's just inactive.

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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26910059 - 08/31/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
L-LSD versus D-LSD - while both may be pure, only the right one D-LSD works.
if you have 50 mics of pure D-LSD it will be as good as 100 mics of racemic mixture pure lsd.

does the L-LSD make you sick? I think it's just inactive.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24263766




i know about the difference between D-LSD and iso-LSD, but i guess both of them are pretty much D-isomer, given their potency even at low doses. 60 ug will reliably fling fractals


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #26910273 - 08/31/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It's such a confusing debate, I'll agree.  The leading LSD chemists who are in-the-know and working with the government say one thing, and the illicit underground chemists all say another (that purity is very important and there are differences between batches).  My empirical experience shows that I've had crystal that was more like a black sludge that when it liquid concentrate you couldn't even see through the liquid to the other side that everyone reported had very nasty side effects.  I ate it, and had the most horrendous come up ever.  I mean laying on the floor twitching dry heaving into the toilet.. questioning if it was an RC and I needed to go to hospital.  Whereas my friend had really no issues coming up.  But it was certainly LSD... that was absolutely certain.

Then I've had batches where it was so clean and pure, that I questioned if it was LSD - but it absolutely was LSD, actually happened to still to date be the best LSD I've ever had in my life and most everyone agreed.

Even now, I can still feel a difference between different batches.  They all center around the same experience, but have slight subjective, yet noticable, differences.  They're all LSD-25, but what else is going on...

just like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop, the world may never know.


The other thing I'll say is I have some liquid that is remarkably clean, very, very proper.  But one trip I had some lasting stomach troubles, like my upper stomach was feeling clenched, and in a bit of pain.  But I attribute that moreso to the fact the night before I had a good amount to drink and a bunch of cheese and oily food which I never eat (lactose intolerant).


Edited by Typerwritermonky (08/31/20 05:28 PM)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #26911233 - 09/01/20 06:13 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

the crystal that you describe as black goo is neither crystal nor pure, though it may have been 80%-90% pure lsd plus 10%-20% miscellaneous junk.

why you got cramps may be unrelated to quality, but to dose and set and setting.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Rapjack]
    #26911390 - 09/01/20 08:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rapjack said:
Could be fluffed vs not fluffed. American stuff is almost always made into fluff, perhaps it's a matter of which receptors get activated more. I know that one of the serotonin sites that psilocin affects can cause stomach aches / nausea so perhaps it's similar? Just my uneducated guess, it seems that low quality isn't as common as before.




I would like to read more on this, does anyone have a source or primer on the subject?


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27505047 - 10/15/21 03:44 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

ok so i found out that the stomach trouble came a) from drinking too much black tea and energy drink which i have reduced greatly for that reason and b) from eating during the trip causing digestion issues... the acid seems to be very pure and the nausea just a basic side effect from the serotonergic activity.

i do agree by now that eventual physical side effects are almost always the result of lsd interacting with the serotonin system, and not of any impurity.

still i had the impression that the 2 batches (swiss / american), while laid at the same strength, hit my receptors differently and others confirmed that.. the experiences varied accordingly and consistently, but i can neither verify it, nor explain why...


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27627259 - 01/21/22 02:47 PM (2 years, 7 days ago)

ok so i scored a few sugar cubes of pharmaceutical quality liquid made for study purposes in canada.. mic'd the same as the said swiss - 120 ug. expecting somewhat similar results from the same dose, i took ~25 mics, having done the exact same amount from a sugar cube of the swiss ones exactly 1 month before that...and guess what: the pharmaceutical is much weaker, both in terms of bodyload and in terms of euphoria, mind trip, visuals... the only thing they seem to give me are sharped senses, mental clarity, sharper colours. but no patterns whatsoever. with the swiss stuff i could see slight fractals on surfaces with as low as 20 mics. the pharmaceutical really does seem to be very mild on the body, no stomach trouble whatsoever at said doses.. i checked my pupils and they were enlarged to the same degree you would expect with ~25mics

but it's mental effects are so subtle. i have taken 25mics of it once after that and once a couple of months ago from a microdosing solution... same thing, i don't even notice it apart from a bit of HD vision

overall i prefer the swiss now, even if it's just 15 mics.. whatever creates the bodyload/stomach thing also creates some pleasurable/euphoric/calming components that i have no explanation for and that the new batch is lacking.


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Edited by epilectric (01/21/22 05:21 PM)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #27627288 - 01/21/22 03:04 PM (2 years, 7 days ago)

Acid fries you bro no matter where it came from nor what it was purposed for. With my weaker acid I just take more, it does exactly the same thing as the stronger acid.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27627403 - 01/21/22 04:34 PM (2 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
ok so i found out that the stomach trouble came a) from drinking too much black tea and energy drink which i have reduced greatly for that reason and b) from eating during the trip causing digestion issues... the acid seems to be very pure and the nausea just a basic side effect from the serotonergic activity.

i do agree by now that eventual physical side effects are almost always the result of lsd interacting with the serotonin system, and not of any impurity.

still i had the impression that the 2 batches (swiss / american), while laid at the same strength, hit my receptors differently and others confirmed that.. the experiences varied accordingly and consistently, but i can neither verify it, nor explain why...



LSD is trippy like that

seeing as it was liquid and high in strength, it only makes sense that acid was trying to get you to listen to your body.

I’ve eaten certain junk foods while tripping and the acid amped up the junk foods stomach aches and lack of nutrition feeling you get if you eat too many flaming hot Cheetos. you bring up energy drank, that stuff can make people feel sick even in low doses even when not on LSD.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner]
    #27627928 - 01/22/22 04:33 AM (2 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Acid fries you bro no matter where it came from nor what it was purposed for. With my weaker acid I just take more, it does exactly the same thing as the stronger acid.





being a low doser these days, i'm looking more for therapeutic, antidepressant benefits rather than frying my brains off... and at least for this purpose, i notice obvious differences between the batches 🤷


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27627970 - 01/22/22 06:04 AM (2 years, 6 days ago)

At microgram doses LSD is LSD.

I was a big believer in LSD difference in the past, totally convinced. Things and experience changed my mind.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner]
    #27628238 - 01/22/22 10:42 AM (2 years, 6 days ago)

just it clarify,
low doses to micro doses of the Swiss Czech you like and enjoy still gives that stomach discomfort?


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: candyman345]
    #27628251 - 01/22/22 10:53 AM (2 years, 6 days ago)

The body is one incredible complex, yet simply understood thing, to stomach cramps that could be maybe anything related to stomach a digestive organs.  Easy enough, when have stomach cramps, try a teaspoon or two baking soda in water to ease that gut.

I see it if repeated cramps to dose, body letting know of agitation to the dose and experience to come and letting mind know not needed.



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Edited by WhoManBeing (01/22/22 10:54 AM)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner]
    #27628288 - 01/22/22 11:20 AM (2 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
At microgram doses LSD is LSD.

I was a big believer in LSD difference in the past, totally convinced. Things and experience changed my mind.





took 30 mics this time... i feel it more instantly.. maybe you're right


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: candyman345]
    #27628293 - 01/22/22 11:22 AM (2 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

candyman345 said:
just it clarify,
low doses to micro doses of the Swiss Czech you like and enjoy still gives that stomach discomfort?




it's swiss, not czech :wink: and yea i enjoy them and they still tend to give me that discomfort but i learned to adjust and respond to it (eating less, right things)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27628470 - 01/22/22 01:43 PM (2 years, 6 days ago)

wait so you get nausea from micro doses?
Or is it rare you micro that Swiss?


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27628511 - 01/22/22 02:07 PM (2 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
At microgram doses LSD is LSD.

I was a big believer in LSD difference in the past, totally convinced. Things and experience changed my mind.





took 30 mics this time... i feel it more instantly.. maybe you're right



It's a molecule, it can only possibly be one thing. It's not like it's an element that can bond with other things.

What changed my mind on the topic is I got someone else to dose me out of the stash i was certain I could tell the difference between. I had no idea. Wrong, wrong and wrong again. It's an interesting experiment, if you've got someone you can trust it's worth doing for yourself.

If we go back a few years you'll find posts by me saying I can absolutely tell the difference between acids, then I just go silent on the subject.  :lol:


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner]
    #27628521 - 01/22/22 02:14 PM (2 years, 6 days ago)

yea i have to admit i basically arrived at the same conclusion today with your help and the help of acid. acid = acid :laugh:


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: candyman345]
    #27628681 - 01/22/22 04:36 PM (2 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

candyman345 said:
wait so you get nausea from micro doses?
Or is it rare you micro that Swiss?




yes, nausea can come and go anytime.. had it with the new batch today too at times


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27631679 - 01/25/22 12:58 AM (2 years, 3 days ago)

why is northerner banned? :frown:


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #27631929 - 01/25/22 09:42 AM (2 years, 3 days ago)



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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Kalendula]
    #27631960 - 01/25/22 10:12 AM (2 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kalendula said:
Ban Lotto




lol.. how long do you get banned there?

ok 7 days.. lmao


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Edited by epilectric (01/25/22 10:16 AM)


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LSA? [Re: epilectric]
    #27832683 - 06/23/22 08:33 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
yea i have to admit i basically arrived at the same conclusion today with your help and the help of acid. acid = acid :laugh:




sorry for keeping to beat this old horse but i have to retract this statement.. maybe pure acid = pure acid

but after trying the pharmaceutical one... and then trying the swiss again... and then another normal/pure batch.. i now am 100% certain that the swiss one is different - more body load and visuals even at lower doses

the two other batches did feel exactly the same - no nausea whatsoever

so either it was a bad synthesis, impurities or ... LSA? does LSA cause nausea and fractals even at lower doses?


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Edited by epilectric (06/23/22 08:36 AM)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner]
    #27833575 - 06/23/22 07:54 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Acid fries you bro no matter where it came from nor what it was purposed for. With my weaker acid I just take more, it does exactly the same thing as the stronger acid.




I completely disagree.  I've had some LSD that in it's raw form was a black goop.  When in concentrate liquid, it was black and opaque, you couldn't even see through the clear glass bottle it was in.  During the come up, I was dry heaving and shaking so bad I thought I would die if I wasn't certain it was LSD.  I was VERY close to going to the ER, but since I knew it was LSD, I didn't and was fine of course.

I've also had LSD that was large clear crystal chunks.  That stuff when dissolved didn't change the color of the liquid at all.  The come up was very strong, but the trip was so clean I felt like I was about to just turn into a paisley and drop into the aether.

I have tried over a dozen batches of LSD crystal from various producers, and every one was different, yet centered around the same core experience.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky] * 1
    #27833731 - 06/23/22 09:42 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I dunno man. I've eaten very many different acids from many different sources over the decades. It all kinda just seems like acid.

The same batch that put me in a dark heavy hole a few months ago put me in a light sparkling wonderland this last weekend.

Tried the blind test a few times, getting friends to dose me out of a selection of different acids. I got it wrong every time, couldn't guess which one.

Also had some batches that were consistently fucking great experiences as well. Figure that. Totally inconsistent in its consistency.

I'm not an expert or anything, but I've ridden this rodeo a bunch of times and haven't yet found a rule for batches and purity and effect.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #27834669 - 06/24/22 03:26 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

all i know is that only one batch gives me nausea, others don't


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27834826 - 06/24/22 05:00 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Acid is acid. There are no ergot alkaloids active in small enough amounts to affect a trip. Acid just causes stomach trouble sometimes.

I never, ever, ever used to get nausea with acid until one time I did. No clue why. That's acid for you. You never quite know what to expect.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: nooneman]
    #27837718 - 06/26/22 05:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Acid is trippy like that. :wink:


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner]
    #27838217 - 06/26/22 10:55 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
I dunno man. I've eaten very many different acids from many different sources over the decades. It all kinda just seems like acid.

The same batch that put me in a dark heavy hole a few months ago put me in a light sparkling wonderland this last weekend.

Tried the blind test a few times, getting friends to dose me out of a selection of different acids. I got it wrong every time, couldn't guess which one.

Also had some batches that were consistently fucking great experiences as well. Figure that. Totally inconsistent in its consistency.

I'm not an expert or anything, but I've ridden this rodeo a bunch of times and haven't yet found a rule for batches and purity and effect.




I mean I agree in many ways.

But that black goop.  It made me have the gnarliest come up ever - I was dry heaving hugging the toilet laying on the floor of my bathroom, shaking a bit and quivering.  But my friend who took it?  None of those effects at all.

I've never experienced that again on cleaner batches.  As well on that black goop, by like 6 hours in, my back was killing me like I was a 90 year old man.  My friend also experienced that back pain.  Impure LSD also gives me micro muscle tension, it's very strange.

And on the best LSD of my life, stuff made by an actual sandoz chemist, one time I had a very rough trip in a bad set and setting.

I think it comes down more to physiology and neurochemistry then it does come down to LSD batches.  Some people experience the effects, others don't. 

But even the black goop provided one of the most insanely deep trips that I will remember a few moments from for the rest of my life.

As well, I've never had a bad trip on LSD.  But the best LSD of my life has also given me slightly troubling experiences in rough set and settings.  So much comes down to set and setting, and the in-the-moment neurochemistry, more than anything else.


Edited by Typerwritermonky (06/26/22 10:55 PM)


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Re: LSA? [Re: epilectric]
    #27838384 - 06/27/22 05:15 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
Quote:

epilectric said:
yea i have to admit i basically arrived at the same conclusion today with your help and the help of acid. acid = acid :laugh:




sorry for keeping to beat this old horse but i have to retract this statement.. maybe pure acid = pure acid

but after trying the pharmaceutical one... and then trying the swiss again... and then another normal/pure batch.. i now am 100% certain that the swiss one is different - more body load and visuals even at lower doses

the two other batches did feel exactly the same - no nausea whatsoever

so either it was a bad synthesis, impurities or ... LSA? does LSA cause nausea and fractals even at lower doses?




IMO, you should not focus if different batches have different effects. LSD has per se a wide spectrum of effects, so eating different batches don't allow you to rule out if the differencies are due to the product or to different situation triggering you different responses. They may lay in set, setting and other things like alimentation, sleeping etc.

I think what really convinced me (i don't have definitive response, but my opinion) was doing the same stuff for a long period gave me all the effects spectrum, while i had very similar experience from different batches.
My point is that, even if impurities had some small influence on your trip (but i dont believe it, at least up to few mg doses, wich are already extreme), these effect would be 'hidden' from set and setting.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: nooneman]
    #27838428 - 06/27/22 05:53 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Acid is acid. There are no ergot alkaloids active in small enough amounts to affect a trip. Acid just causes stomach trouble sometimes.

I never, ever, ever used to get nausea with acid until one time I did. No clue why. That's acid for you. You never quite know what to expect.



Ergotamine is prescribed at as little as 1mg.
Methylergometrine clinical efficacy occurs around 200 µg.
Not much info about the rest of the peptide ergot alkaloids but I would venture there are some more µg actives.

I think this oft repeated statement that there can't be any impurities or byproducts in a level that could impact a trip is a really kinda wrong. If 200 µg is an effictive dose of methylergometrine for an acute condition one would expect some fraction of that to be impactful on the efficacy of another drug, lsd, acting on the same receptors. :shrug:


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #27839129 - 06/27/22 03:18 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
Acid is acid. There are no ergot alkaloids active in small enough amounts to affect a trip. Acid just causes stomach trouble sometimes.

I never, ever, ever used to get nausea with acid until one time I did. No clue why. That's acid for you. You never quite know what to expect.



Ergotamine is prescribed at as little as 1mg.
Methylergometrine clinical efficacy occurs around 200 µg.
Not much info about the rest of the peptide ergot alkaloids but I would venture there are some more µg actives.

I think this oft repeated statement that there can't be any impurities or byproducts in a level that could impact a trip is a really kinda wrong. If 200 µg is an effictive dose of methylergometrine for an acute condition one would expect some fraction of that to be impactful on the efficacy of another drug, lsd, acting on the same receptors. :shrug:




This assumes any clandestine chemists synth technique is so poor they someone have trace amounts of precursor in their finished batch.

Anything that would be present at the final stage would be inactive at microgram doses. Methylergometrine isn't an intermediate steps for most LSD synthesis techniques to my knowledge.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27841849 - 06/29/22 05:29 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The "type' of LSD has nothing to do with stomach issues. Its in your head. Go buy a different source LSD (with another stupid made up name). Now you get someone to give the LSD to you but not tell you which is which. You will not be able to pick the Stomach issue LSD in a blind taste test. All LSD is the same, all differences you feel is the different micrograms. There is no "dirty" LSD that gives all users universally stomach issues. Give it to me I will take it and not have any issues, because i don't believe in "clean" LSD.

Blind taste test gets rid of so much of this bullshit, I don't know why people don't do it. Instea of clinging to same bullshit about fluff or needlepoint. Go blind taste all LSD is the same.


--------------------
Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: viraldrome]
    #27845817 - 07/01/22 10:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Can acid go bad?


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: candyman345]
    #27847190 - 07/03/22 01:02 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

It can oxidize into iso-LSD, which is inactive.  Also when exposed to constant sunlight, it will break down into lumi-LSD, also inactive.

This reduces the potency of the batch, but that's it.  It doesn't change the actual d-LSD-25 left in it that's affecting you.  I've had vials turn black, as in the liquid, and it's fine.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27847628 - 07/03/22 11:35 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

So it would still be all right to eat?


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: candyman345] * 1
    #27848035 - 07/03/22 06:16 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Yeah absolutely.  Totally fine to eat.  The paper won't degrade into anything problematic, and as long as the liquid was made properly with alcohol, then it's totally fine.

Now if the paper is all moldy, maybe toss it.  If the liquid has noticeable hunks of bacteria floating in it, add some alcohol first to the liquid to sanitize it, and then it would be fine.

Acid doesn't go bad, it just degrades into inactive isomers.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27849769 - 07/04/22 09:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Thank You for the response.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: candyman345]
    #27849770 - 07/04/22 10:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

What’s the story on that ‘brown acid’ at woodstock?

Was it seriously lethal LSD or just some test chemical RC junk floating around at the festival?
Or was it just a hoax?


--------------------
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“Be responsible, be safe, be kind
and know that everything will be fine.”

:loljesus:


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: candyman345]
    #27849870 - 07/05/22 12:24 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The brown acid was just acid, microdots, it's just that the festival was a major clusterfuck. Way to many people jammed into a way too small area with not enough food, sanitation or shade and all tripping balls... then it started to rain heavily. Everyone was lost and tripping and muddy and fucked up, tripping people started freaking the fuck out at the extreme situation.

Set and setting.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #27850315 - 07/05/22 11:37 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I heard that it was 'extra stronk' too. :shrug:


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: viraldrome]
    #27850395 - 07/05/22 12:24 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

i bascially agree, usually it's just set and setting. but this particular batch is different from others as it gives me and others nausea everytime, while other batches don't.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: schmutzen]
    #27850566 - 07/05/22 02:47 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

namaste said:
I heard that it was 'extra stronk' too. :shrug:



That's what I read too. 60's acid :awesome:
The whole thing about the "brown acid" was a DJ announcement, which is what made it famous and probably even freaked out a bunch of people who had already taken it.
Notorious festival. People started arriving a week before they were supposed to and cut the wire fences down. The organisers realised that they couldn't control the sea of people so just decided not to, and announced it was free. So 300,000 people showed up... lol


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Northerner]
    #27850837 - 07/05/22 05:58 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

As LSD ages, [79 years since 1942]
it seems to be more well behaved than it was in the 60s and 70s, much like a human as They experience life longer.
They get wiser and understand what is appropriate or not.

Now with the nausea, it all depends.
That one confuses Me. Perhaps the other substances One might be on while mixing with acid?

Shrooms make My stomach upset sometimes.
Maybe LSD molecules are like microscopic mushrooms?


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: candyman345]
    #27851244 - 07/05/22 09:39 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The brown acid was fine LSD.  It was just literally concentrated solution poured onto brown thin cardboard paper.... from people who took it, the estimated dosage per tab is 500ug+ from what I've read, with many hot spots being 1mg+.  So you ate a 4 square or something, and now you're on 2-4mg of LSD.  Which of course caused people to bug out.

So the LSD itself was fine, but even on 2mg of sandoz LSD you're going to be fucking way gone and probably not in a good way.  There's no way I could handle 2mg of the finest LSD myself in that environment.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27902198 - 08/13/22 04:43 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

ok got quite some nausea on the purer batch today as well.. but still a lot less visual disturbances and patterning (which can be desired but not always)


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: epilectric]
    #27902455 - 08/13/22 09:35 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

you may have some stomach issues related to serotonin.


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Re: swiss liquid - stomach trouble [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27902469 - 08/13/22 09:49 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

i do..


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