Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineRumpleforeskin
Scientist new to mycology
Male


Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 82
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Unicorn Bags?
    #26832590 - 07/19/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hello Folks.

I'm thinking of starting with a spore syringe and growing them out on agar, followed by selectively isolating a good culture for propagation.  I was thinking agar wedge to a 3T Unicorn bag (~4 QT) to a mono tub.  From what I understand, it would take ~1 4QT unicorn bag to one mono tub, and ~4 bags would fit in a 21-23 QT PC  Based on the size of the unicorn bag, I understand that it will take longer to colonize the spawn prior to being ready to colonize a mono tub.  I plan on developing a system of perpetual harvest over time, so aside from the longer spawn time, is there any reason not to do it this way? 

I plan on eventually ramping up to 20-30 mono tubs, and if I'm cycling mason jars, I"m looking at  a couple hundred of them at varying stages.  The bags seem like a better idea, but was hoping for some feedback prior to ordering a big batch of them.... 

Thanks for your feedback.:mushroom2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rumpleforeskin]
    #26832642 - 07/19/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Why not do agar into a grain jar, then g2g? One quart can nocc two bags. You can refrigerate generation 1 masters for future use, expand x10 then x2. One master can make 20 bags.


--------------------


Edited by Rapjack (07/19/20 02:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLotKid
Never.Trust.A.Prankster
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/07/17
Posts: 8,169
Loc: Shakedown St.
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rapjack]
    #26832727 - 07/19/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

One quart of spawn into two bags is a gross overuse of materials. I expand a quart jar of spawn into 18 bags.

There's nothing wrong with dropping a wedge into a bag. I've done it many times. If your goal is four spawn bags then why bother with master jars?

OP... sounds to me like youre clear for take off...

Now... when you want to run more than a small handful of bags... master jars :rockon:


--------------------

:mushroom2: LotKid's PE Tips        :shpongle:    LotKid's Chocolates :mushroom2:
:dancingbear: :dancingbear:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesouthbounpachyderm
Stranger
Registered: 07/20/18
Posts: 282
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rumpleforeskin]
    #26832841 - 07/19/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I would try my hand without bags for the first go of things. Bags are a finnicky bitch and you have a way easier time fucking them up without a flow hood. Stick with jars until you're good at the hobby imho.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: LotKid]
    #26832851 - 07/19/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
One quart of spawn into two bags is a gross overuse of materials. I expand a quart jar of spawn into 18 bags.

There's nothing wrong with dropping a wedge into a bag. I've done it many times. If your goal is four spawn bags then why bother with master jars?

OP... sounds to me like youre clear for take off...

Now... when you want to run more than a small handful of bags... master jars :rockon:




Well hot damn, how do you do that? And how long do they take to colonize? The most I've ever gotten was 10 bags from 1 jar, via slurry. Took about 10 days.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLotKid
Never.Trust.A.Prankster
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/07/17
Posts: 8,169
Loc: Shakedown St.
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rapjack]
    #26832949 - 07/19/20 05:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I do it by only dumping a small amount of grain into each bag. My bags take about 2 weeks to finish. Give or take a few days depending on when/how frequent i shake them.

Dropping a couple wedges from a plate into a bag... takes a tad longer than g2g but not by much.

Just dont wait too long before you give them their first shake.


--------------------

:mushroom2: LotKid's PE Tips        :shpongle:    LotKid's Chocolates :mushroom2:
:dancingbear: :dancingbear:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: LotKid]
    #26833056 - 07/19/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
I do it by only dumping a small amount of grain into each bag. My bags take about 2 weeks to finish. Give or take a few days depending on when/how frequent i shake them.

Dropping a couple wedges from a plate into a bag... takes a tad longer than g2g but not by much.

Just dont wait too long before you give them their first shake.




Interesting, what grain do you use?

I find with agar to grain shaking at 10% then again at 30% speeds things up. Have you considered LI? Agar slurries might speed things up, spawn bags took me about 12-15 days and one plate can make about six to eight bags, more if you're willing to wait.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRumpleforeskin
Scientist new to mycology
Male


Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 82
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: southbounpachyderm]
    #26833113 - 07/19/20 07:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
One quart of spawn into two bags is a gross overuse of materials. I expand a quart jar of spawn into 18 bags.

There's nothing wrong with dropping a wedge into a bag. I've done it many times. If your goal is four spawn bags then why bother with master jars?

OP... sounds to me like youre clear for take off...

Now... when you want to run more than a small handful of bags... master jars :rockon:




Thanks man...  So just to be clear... Putting a wedge into a 4 QT bag (3T I'm thinking), is an effective way to do this?  I still intend on using some of my bags to inoculate other bags (~10:1).  I figured if I was using bags, I could just bypass the jars altogether.
Quote:

southbounpachyderm said:
I would try my hand without bags for the first go of things. Bags are a finnicky bitch and you have a way easier time fucking them up without a flow hood. Stick with jars until you're good at the hobby imho.





Thanks.  I'm building a flow hood as well.  Also thinking of getting an extra HEPA filter for the fruiting room, as I intend on leaving the tub lids cracked/upside down.  Any thoughts on this?  Seems like for the $300 its money well spent....

I do appreciate the advice.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesouthbounpachyderm
Stranger
Registered: 07/20/18
Posts: 282
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rumpleforeskin]
    #26833171 - 07/19/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I would still suggest cutting your teeth on jars before progressing to bags. The learning curve is steep and mold farming is not a fun task. bags are way easier to fuck up when you're new at this. Skipping steps generally brings failure harder and for longer. I read your other thread and understand you have a science background that may make things a little easier but there are going to be a lot of things that come up you may not have planned for. I'd take it slower flowhoods don't ensure success time growing and learning from experience/experimentation does.

As far as a hepa for the grow room it still wont prevent contamination and it generally won't do much besides dry your subs out. I'd say its not a worthwhile thing to invest in for the grow.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRumpleforeskin
Scientist new to mycology
Male


Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 82
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: southbounpachyderm]
    #26833420 - 07/19/20 11:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

southbounpachyderm said:
I would still suggest cutting your teeth on jars before progressing to bags. The learning curve is steep and mold farming is not a fun task. bags are way easier to fuck up when you're new at this. Skipping steps generally brings failure harder and for longer. I read your other thread and understand you have a science background that may make things a little easier but there are going to be a lot of things that come up you may not have planned for. I'd take it slower flowhoods don't ensure success time growing and learning from experience/experimentation does.

As far as a hepa for the grow room it still wont prevent contamination and it generally won't do much besides dry your subs out. I'd say its not a worthwhile thing to invest in for the grow.




Great advice, thanks.  I guess I'll look for 100 mason jars :wink:  I'm just concerned about spores, etc in the fruit space... a bit of black mould on the wall and a cannabis room next to it.  I'll just scrub the space down and tent the whole area with Black and White poly (what we call it around here.....).  I know that a flow hood in an adjacent clean room isn't going to make the whole process fool proof, and I anticipate some fails along the way. But... the flow hood will increase my odds of clean spawning and cloning/agar work.  Thanks for taking the time, it is appreciated.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesouthbounpachyderm
Stranger
Registered: 07/20/18
Posts: 282
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rumpleforeskin]
    #26833441 - 07/19/20 11:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rumpleforeskin said:


Great advice, thanks.  I guess I'll look for 100 mason jars :wink:  I'm just concerned about spores, etc in the fruit space... a bit of black mould on the wall and a cannabis room next to it.  I'll just scrub the space down and tent the whole area with Black and White poly (what we call it around here.....).  I know that a flow hood in an adjacent clean room isn't going to make the whole process fool proof, and I anticipate some fails along the way. But... the flow hood will increase my odds of clean spawning and cloning/agar work.  Thanks for taking the time, it is appreciated.



I'm simply suggesting you scale back what you're going for right now. Get a couple grows under your belt with jars first. buy 24 jars and run 5 tubs buy your flowhood too if you want for that task but get a feel for growing and the possible issues that could arise before jumping headfirst into bags. Don't wanna increase the spore load in there :wink:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefightingcherries
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 107
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: LotKid]
    #26833444 - 07/19/20 11:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

2 weeks? Wow, that's good. What amount of grain do you use in there?  Would that affect how long it takes to colonize, assuming the g2g is evenly dispersed throughout the grain, I would think not too much right?  I use the Type 10T bags, and LC, and mine take 21-30 days, and I use about 3 quarts of 2 day soaked then strained oats.  Id love to get to 2 weeks.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: fightingcherries]
    #26833923 - 07/20/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm hoping he responds too! Am very interested to know, Lotkid might just change how I view g2g transfers. According to him, he's using 1/18 of a quart jar, so about three tablespoons I reckon. Probably uses a smaller grain like millet and I'm guessing he shakes at 10%, then 30%.

I've never used LC myself but am a huge fan of LI's. Agar slurries usually take 10-15 days for me, one plate can nocc six to eight bags or more.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLotKid
Never.Trust.A.Prankster
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/07/17
Posts: 8,169
Loc: Shakedown St.
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rapjack]
    #26837709 - 07/22/20 08:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I mainly run rye. Wheat then wbf if no rye is available but that's not often. I hate oats for myco. They can work in a pinch but oats are far from optimal.

I find LI and LC to be extra steps, procedures and possible vectors for contam. Its not difficult to jar up a lil grain for masters while making bags.

I used to use LC like a mofo. I have made and used LI and grain slurry. They have their uses and can be powerful tools. I just dont utilize liquids much anymore. I found that i dont need them.


--------------------

:mushroom2: LotKid's PE Tips        :shpongle:    LotKid's Chocolates :mushroom2:
:dancingbear: :dancingbear:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerickyswamps
Bad Apple
I'm a teapot


Registered: 11/08/18
Posts: 1,192
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: LotKid]
    #26837787 - 07/22/20 09:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You have the right idea of what to do, but maybe not enough experience to execute it without some major failures.  There is a learning curve with sterile technique.  Clean spawn generation is everything and getting to the point of doing it reliably takes some time.  If you don't have a flowhood, I'd stick with jars until you get a hang of it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: LotKid]
    #26838090 - 07/22/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
I mainly run rye. Wheat then wbf if no rye is available but that's not often. I hate oats for myco. They can work in a pinch but oats are far from optimal.

I find LI and LC to be extra steps, procedures and possible vectors for contam. Its not difficult to jar up a lil grain for masters while making bags.

I used to use LC like a mofo. I have made and used LI and grain slurry. They have their uses and can be powerful tools. I just dont utilize liquids much anymore. I found that i dont need them.




I'm currently using oats, will re-evaluate my grain choice. Is it inferior because of the hard husk?

I completely agree that liquids add extra complexity and vectors, but I also used to assume that was required to get increased expansion over g2g. My next spawn run I'll definitely stretch my masters further, will try one jar into eight or ten bags because oats are inferior unless you think I could get away with more.

Thanks a ton brother. (~);}


And I agree with previous posters, I just finished a spawn run with only a handful of grain masters. It was a lot of grain slurries and bag to bag g2g's. Even after years of doing sterile work it was pretty difficult in front of my flow hood and I had over double the usual contam rate, 5% over 2%.


--------------------


Edited by Rapjack (07/22/20 11:44 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRumpleforeskin
Scientist new to mycology
Male


Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 82
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: LotKid]
    #26964757 - 10/01/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
One quart of spawn into two bags is a gross overuse of materials. I expand a quart jar of spawn into 18 bags.

There's nothing wrong with dropping a wedge into a bag. I've done it many times. If your goal is four spawn bags then why bother with master jars?

OP... sounds to me like youre clear for take off...

Now... when you want to run more than a small handful of bags... master jars :rockon:




Thanks a lot.  How long should I PC 4 lb bags?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineezra999
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/20
Posts: 7
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rumpleforeskin]
    #26964775 - 10/01/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ive been using a 16qt pressure cooker and unicorn 14a bags. I can fit 2 in the pressure cooker. Im about to upgrade to the 23 quart, does anyone use a 23qt and if so what bags do you use and how many can you PC at a time?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRumpleforeskin
Scientist new to mycology
Male


Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 82
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: ezra999]
    #26964780 - 10/01/20 09:06 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Does anyone have a recommended PC time for ~4 lb unicorn bags?  I have 2x21 QT prestos.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrotherDekatessera
Stranger
Registered: 09/24/20
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Unicorn Bags? [Re: Rumpleforeskin]
    #26965035 - 10/01/20 11:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

putting a wedge of agar in to a jar is a huge waste of the agar. not in the sense that you wasted it outright, but wasted potential.

take the wedge of agar, (or the whole plate depending how many jar or bags you wanna hit with it) and slurry it in distilled water. suck that up in to a syringe, or just pour it out right in to your grain bags/jars. it will colonize at ATLEAST twice the speed the wedge tossed in will, and you can noc ten to twenty jars or bags with the same wedge slurried in to water, than the 1 you would have done with the wedge.

all you need is a twenty dollar blender and a regular mouth mason jar. the cheapest oster blender walmart sells (like 19 and change) has the threads that allow you to screw a regular mouth mason directly to the blade housing = slurry machine. the ease of a liquid culture with the contamination QC of agar.

if you want to really push it, and you have it to hand, a jar colonized with the same culture as an agar wedge can be used in tandem.

you just make the LI (liquid innoculant) agar slurry like above, and use that as the water component to slurry a matching-culture jar of grain. this overlaps the overkill range TBH, but ya might wanna try it one day anyway.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* My Filter patch bags melted to my 931!!! lil help please... Jeremy_Davis 1,679 7 11/27/10 11:57 AM
by Mr Mycoman
* Substrate Bags Realnuggetz 1,546 10 06/24/05 01:05 AM
by agar
* Home-made bags Anonymous 1,536 11 04/09/03 02:17 PM
by Prisoner#1
* spawn bags delivered to US.. where can i find these? Tommyboy892 650 3 03/27/03 08:45 PM
by SixTango
* oven bags user_exists 1,535 8 02/01/03 06:23 PM
by SixTango
* Autoclavable bags in a PC STACKED?? Alger 2,609 12 07/19/20 11:05 PM
by Rumpleforeskin
* PCing Spawn bags tripndicular 2,235 18 12/02/04 05:20 PM
by Prisoner#1
* SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS agar 24,497 14 03/07/15 01:02 PM
by bw86

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
2,705 topic views. 38 members, 204 guests and 47 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 13 queries.