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InvisiblefeeversM
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Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 1
    #26832217 - 07/19/20 09:35 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You said masks reduce O2 levels, this study does not say that and what I quoted is the researchers explaining exactly why it doesn't say that in their own words.

"More research is needed in..." is a sentence included virtually every academic research paper, and that research would not be needed if the study had drawn a definitive conclusion.

Essentially the only thing the study proves is that surgeons, masked or unmasked, experience a drop in o2 levels and raised pulse, with age of surgeon and duration of operation causing the differences between groups. Anything else is you spinning the results to be right.

You're doing the equivalent or seeing a study saying "Cigarettes either cause cancer, or they do not cause cancer" and saying 'See! Cigarettes don't cause cancer!'


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #26832237 - 07/19/20 09:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LeningradCowboy said:
"and further studies involving measurement of gas tensions over time, both from blood and from samples obtained  under  the  mask  (in  order  to  show  a  presumed build-up of CO2 under the mask) have to be carried out to elucidate this issue."

Please learn to read.

"considering our findings, this is the first clinical inves-tigation reporting a decrease in blood O2 saturation and an increase in pulse rates of the surgeons after the operations due to surgical mask usage. This change in SpO2 may be either due to the facial mask or the operational stress, since similar changes were observed in the group performing surgery without a mask. However, it cannot be decided whether stress plays any role on the late changes, namely pulse rate increase and SpO2 level decrease; since surgeons are not allowed to perform major surgery without a facial mask in most institutions. In order to better elucidate the effects of stress, a randomized control study should have been  conducted  in  a  more  controlled  environment  with different sorts of workers from different gender who are or are not used to wearing face masks on (such as anesthe-siologists, nurses) also working the same durations. Thus, it is important not to generalize the results of this prelimi-nary study, and further studies involving measurement of gas tensions over time, both from blood and from samples obtained  under  the  mask  (in  order  to  show  a  presumed build-up of CO2 under the mask) have to be carried out to elucidate this issue"

Study: there is evidence that needs further studying.

Feevers: there is no evidence




I just walked to the grocery store. On the way, I walked through the park. There were people doing yoga in masks. I saw a half dozen joggers wearing masks. It’s 96° out with a feels like temp of 106°



There is no legimate reason that the general public cannot wear a mask.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: feevers] * 1
    #26832238 - 07/19/20 09:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

"Our study demonstrates, for the first time, that pregnant women in mid-pregnancy are unable to maintain their minute ventilation while breathing through N95-mask materials. There is also a decrease oxygen uptake and increase carbon dioxide production as a result of the increased workload on breathing imposed by mask use, both at rest and low work intensity. This supports the view of some that pregnant healthcare workers should probably refrain from prolonged N95-mask use towards the third trimester. The complications to the women and her fetus that can result from a prolonged decrease in VE and increased work of breathing, are unknown

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4647822/


--------------------
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Offlinekoods
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: koods] * 1
    #26832246 - 07/19/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

in  order  to  show  a  presumed build-up of CO2 under the mask)




Where do you presume this CO2 is building up? What’s the volume of space underneath a mask? It’s minuscule compared to the volume of air being exhaled. Every time you inhale, that tiny amount of CO2 is diluted with fresh air.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: feevers] * 1
    #26832249 - 07/19/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Anyone have any hot tips on some good mask sources? Isopropyl alcohol seems widespread and prevalent online so far but it's hard for me to find at any grocery stores.


I've been wearing regular cloth masks and some pseudo N95s(KN95s) that I'm pretty sure are thoroughly bogus. I'm still scratching my head over symptoms I had in February, but I need to start getting my shit together for fall. Things are gonna get so bad here..I can see it already. It's gonna get cold, people are gonna get claustrophbobic, we're going to have to deal with flu season and all the other seasonal bullshit - there's probably gonna be a freak noreaster that strands everyone on the highways overnight again at some point. Like...it's just gonna suck, we've been playing on easy mode with all this beautiful weather. I've never been one to prep really, but times is changing, and it's just dumb not to now. Gotta start getting my food stores in order too.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 3
    #26832251 - 07/19/20 10:02 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LeningradCowboy said:
"Our study demonstrates, for the first time, that pregnant women in mid-pregnancy are unable to maintain their minute ventilation while breathing through N95-mask materials. There is also a decrease oxygen uptake and increase carbon dioxide production as a result of the increased workload on breathing imposed by mask use, both at rest and low work intensity. This supports the view of some that pregnant healthcare workers should probably refrain from prolonged N95-mask use towards the third trimester. The complications to the women and her fetus that can result from a prolonged decrease in VE and increased work of breathing, are unknown

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4647822/




Quote:

There were however no changes in the maternal and fetal heart rates, finger-tip capillary lactate levels and oxygen saturation and rating of perceived exertion at the work intensity investigated.





You know what seriously affects oxygen saturation? Covid. Wear a fucking mask.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #26832263 - 07/19/20 10:09 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LeningradCowboy said:
"Our study demonstrates, for the first time, that pregnant women in mid-pregnancy are unable to maintain their minute ventilation while breathing through N95-mask materials. There is also a decrease oxygen uptake and increase carbon dioxide production as a result of the increased workload on breathing imposed by mask use, both at rest and low work intensity. This supports the view of some that pregnant healthcare workers should probably refrain from prolonged N95-mask use towards the third trimester. The complications to the women and her fetus that can result from a prolonged decrease in VE and increased work of breathing, are unknown

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4647822/




I don't have the time to dissect another study, but assuming this one actually proves the point you're trying to make, a study showing issues with pregnant healthcare workers in their 3rd trimester using N95 masks at work is not exactly generalizable to the population. I'm pretty sure the guidance in most places is still to wear cloth/paper and conserve n95's, there's likely a big difference between wearing a cloth mask for 10 minutes at walmart and an n95 for stressful 12 hour shifts while very pregnant.

Again, buy a $30 pulse o2 meter on amazon, put on a bunch of masks and watch as nothing changes. I checked mine regularly because I was only satting 95ish from asthma and allergies. I was wearing the mask while moving furniture and I didn't want to risk passing out. I stayed at 95 throughout, probably around an hour and felt fine.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 5
    #26832267 - 07/19/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LeningradCowboy said:
Feevers that study is done with pulse meter.
Did you read it?

Try keeping the mask on for 2-8 hours and getting no reduced oxygen levels.



I wear two masks, an n95 and a surgical mask over top, for almost all of 12 hours straight. Wearing a mask doesnt make my o2 levels drop. You know what does? Physical activity like running or lifting. Is physical activity unhealthy?

As uncomfortable as wearing a mask for hours on end can get, I can tell the people with covid struggling to breathe are far, far more uncomfortable. I will put up with minor discomfort to avoid major discomfort personally, but I am aware that many people arent good with delayed gratification. If that is you, fine, whatever. Thats you. But trying to convince yourself that you are avoiding a mask because it is healthier not to wear a mask in the context of a viral pandemic this serious is pure mental gymnastics.


As I have said before, I encourage anyone who is prone to confirmation bias/cherry picking and/or trusting the media, and who wants a better idea of the reality of this situation, to get a patient transport job in a hospital. Everything will be there for you to see with your own eyes. Patient privacy is important, but I cant tell you how many times I wished lately that HIPAA were temporarily suspended so I could just post videos of what the ED/ICUs are like at the moment.


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26832274 - 07/19/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Koods and Morrowasted

If needed will.
No need now in my area.
Will be wearing one 8h a day in 2 weeks anyway.

In Finland total deaths 328, gone up by 1 in 2 weeks. With social distancing and hand hygiene.
The situation in here is good. It is good in many countries in europe.
Please dont try to enforce on me teks needed on hotspots or try to make me feel bad about not using one when no need for it. Will gear up if needed.

Feevers:

Im going to start working with elders in 2 weeks. If I have enough money will buy meter and check what happens to my O levels during 8 h sift in full ppe

And yes off course there is difference. But trying to make a statement that masks dont mess with your c02/oxygen levels at all is completly false imho.


--------------------
From tundra with love!


FREE HAMHEAD 2020!


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 7
    #26832283 - 07/19/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If the situation your country doesnt warrant it, whatever. Going around telling people masks are unhealthy is throwing gasoline on a fire that may not exist where you are but which very much does exist elsehwere. Please dont do that.


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #26832311 - 07/19/20 10:47 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

!Hey man murica is not the central of the world, even though it made bigger in maps to look like it!

I´m not going to censor my self because there is possibility that somebody, somewhere thinks that im american and live there and act according to that.
Siberia is mentioned in my sig too.

Yes the situation is bad in your country.
Have mentioned several times that in hotspots use every tek! Wear masks if needed.

But in reality forcing elders to wear those 24/7 is health risk for them. even in middle of nature is plain dump imho.
Are you really sure that we should not talk about negative effects of masks?


--------------------
From tundra with love!


FREE HAMHEAD 2020!


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 5
    #26832314 - 07/19/20 10:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Nobody is forcing anyone to wear a mask "24/7". Cut the strawmen. You are being obtuse. Yes, I am sure we shouldn't talk about it, because it is a problem you are making up, unlike covid, which is a real problem. If wearing mask made your o2 levels drop, we would worry about putting them on all of covid patients who are waiting in the ER hallway for a bed, sincethey already have low o2 sat. These people are being constantly monitored with hospital grade pulse oximeters. The mask has no effect on the reading. If you feel subjective breathing problems wearing a mask , you probably smoke way too much or are very obese. Those are health risks. Cut it out.


Edited by morrowasted (07/19/20 10:56 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 2
    #26832320 - 07/19/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LeningradCowboy said:
Koods and Morrowasted

If needed will.
No need now in my area.
Will be wearing one 8h a day in 2 weeks anyway.

In Finland total deaths 328, gone up by 1 in 2 weeks. With social distancing and hand hygiene.
The situation in here is good. It is good in many countries in europe.
Please dont try to enforce on me teks needed on hotspots or try to make me feel bad about not using one when no need for it. Will gear up if needed.

Feevers:

Im going to start working with elders in 2 weeks. If I have enough money will buy meter and check what happens to my O levels during 8 h sift in full ppe

And yes off course there is difference. But trying to make a statement that masks dont mess with your c02/oxygen levels at all is completly false imho.




If you have low levels of cases and good contact tracing and isolation and quarantine, then fine. The mask don’t hurt but whatever it’s probably not a big deal with low levels and a good idea of who is infected. That is simply not the case here. There are infected people walking around in massive numbers in this country. Masks need to be mandated for everyone.

Quote:

you really sure that we should not talk about negative effects of masks?



We shouldn’t because they are trivial and the debate is disingenuous. This idea that everyone should look at the evidence and come to their own conclusions on scientific issues is bullshit. Most people are incapable of weighing scientific evidence. You’ve posted two studies today where you completely misinterpreted the conclusions.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: morrowasted]
    #26832326 - 07/19/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

At least in nyc area elders in nursing homes are required to wear one.

And im not talking about breathing problems. Talking about c02/oxygen levels here.

And thank you im in fit shape, and breathing is easy.


--------------------
From tundra with love!


FREE HAMHEAD 2020!


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 1
    #26832331 - 07/19/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Both of those studies backed up what I was saying.the concept of Masks causing drop in oxygen levels is real thing and should be studied more.


--------------------
From tundra with love!


FREE HAMHEAD 2020!


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 8
    #26832350 - 07/19/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Applies perfectly well to this situation as well. "I breathe just fine in a mask and covid isnt a major problem here but I am gonna stir shit up just because I think someone has to"



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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #26832375 - 07/19/20 11:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Fuck off.

The situation in my area is as valuable as in your area!
This thread is not about covid in murica?
Is it?

murica is not center of my world, or should I act like it is.

Honestly not doing this to stirr or troll or how you want to see it.


--------------------
From tundra with love!


FREE HAMHEAD 2020!


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 1
    #26832378 - 07/19/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

And as far you want to take it to personal level.

Ok.

Just a mark for mods for the bans to come.
I did not start this,

Lets see how fair it is in here in reality.


--------------------
From tundra with love!


FREE HAMHEAD 2020!


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 2
    #26832390 - 07/19/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This thread was supposed to be the place for information around the world.

Am I correct?

Im living in country that did really put its guard up in time.
So the situation is not bad in here.
This was done without mandatory masks you know?

Other countries should take notes imho how this was handled in HG, Finland, South-Korea etc.
Not other way around imho.

Why in the hell should I listen to recommendations from countries that clearly show that theyr tactics are fucked up.
Just look at those frigging numbers and tell me that me not wearing mask in Finland is threat to you in us.

It is not.

It is threat to your ego.

Hey golden boy of shroomery, enjoy your 15 min.

If you would be wise, you would at least look at the numbers of Finland. Then look the teks used. And after that tell me that im completly wrong and just stirring the pot to keep the status quo going on.

As I said Fuck you sir.


--------------------
From tundra with love!


FREE HAMHEAD 2020!


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus Pandemic 2020 [Re: koods] * 1
    #26832403 - 07/19/20 11:51 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
What's interesting about that is during stress your respiration increases and your oxygen supply increases. But for surgeons with masks despite that it goes down. They didn't touch on the fact that the surgeons are probably breathing harder than normal during surgery and despite that the o2 went down




You’re ridiculous




:whathesaid:

It’s annoying but negligible.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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