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Vahn421
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Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers
#26829182 - 07/17/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here is the video.
We already knew that in many cases of illnesses people were being counted as a Covid death even if Covid wasn't the direct cause, already inflating the numbers, but this? This is just fucking ridiculous.
Why should anyone believe what the media tells us about Covid now? Why shouldn't we be skeptical of it all, even down to mask wearing?
The media has successfully polarized the country over this issue.
I posted a news article the other day explaining that Hospitals made anywhere from 10-40K more money if they wrote off a death as a covid death due to executive orders being passed a few months ago.
Do you really think this fraud has only happened once? I'll bet it's happening WAY more than we realize.
Bottom line, they're inflating the numbers and scaring us into thinking covid is more deadly than it really is, and we need to sniff them all out and not do anything they tell us to do in the meantime.
I'm so glad Trump got the CDC out of the picture.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 02:52 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26829247 - 07/17/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'll bite.
While you might be correct that the numbers are somewhat inflated, and that hospitals make more by reporting Covid deaths, it still appears that Covid is FAR deadlier than the flu. As I said before, I knew the first person to die of Covid in the US, and even if the 'true' number of deaths isn't quite 140,000+ (and rapidly growing), it's still FAR more than a flu, and has potential for long term consequences other than death.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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nooneman
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,700
Loc: Utah
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26829254 - 07/17/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So when exactly did you eat the red pill Vahn? I've mentioned before that prior to very recently, you never started any political threads, and you didn't really take many political positions either, and then all of a sudden during an election year BAM, you're posting a fuckton of political threads and they're all hardcore conservative. So what happened?
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26829256 - 07/17/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think the virus is a hoax, I think they've capitalized on human being's propensity for fear and made appear 100 times worse than it really is.
Given how inflated the numbers are, I would be surprised to find out less people actually DIRECTLY die or have permanent damage from covid than they do in automobile accidents.
People seem to argue about what the actual death rate is. My research tells me it's way less than 1%.
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: nooneman]
#26829258 - 07/17/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: So when exactly did you eat the red pill Vahn? I've mentioned before that prior to very recently, you never started any political threads, and you didn't really take many political positions either, and then all of a sudden during an election year BAM, you're posting a fuckton of political threads and they're all hardcore conservative. So what happened?
I used to post on the general board on the shroomery years ago when I was first getting into psychedelics. I messed around in the philosophy and spirituality forum a bit back then, too.
Since Trump got elected in 2016 I've become more interested in politics and what is going on. I saw so much irrational hatred for Trump with very few people being able to give me reasons beyond, "racist, sexist" bigot." in the beginning, so I wanted to look at what was going on for my self. You could say Trump being elected got me into politics.
I've been looking to have my ideas challenged and I also figured I'd come back here to see if and how psychedelic use affects political affiliation as well. (It doesn't seem to affect it much.)
Quote:
you're posting a fuckton of political threads and they're all hardcore conservative.
I don't see how saying "they're lying to us about the covid numbers" is a conservative stance.
EDIT: I'm not a conservative, I'm a rationalist and a futurist. One side simply engages me more thoughtfully than the other, so I know where I stand right now. It could change in a few years. Republicanism were the nut-job party that was pro-censorship 30 years ago. That script has completely flipped now, and anti-censorship is like my BIGGEST position.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 03:35 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26829263 - 07/17/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So, that's one that "could have" been included in the numbers.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 2
#26829264 - 07/17/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
I don't see how saying "they're lying to us about the covid numbers" is a conservative stance.
You posted a link to the youtube channel of "conservative daily."
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26829269 - 07/17/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said:
I don't see how saying "they're lying to us about the covid numbers" is a conservative stance.
You posted a link to the youtube channel of "conservative daily."
Who CARES who is telling the story if we're listening to facts and figures?
I certainly don't, being unaffiliated. Give me a democratic source for news and if they report the truth, I'm going to take it in regardless.
Not taking information in because of WHO said it is classic ad hominem. Cmon, this ls logic/debate 101.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 03:37 PM)
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829272 - 07/17/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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In fact, I'll go a little further.
The very fact that (primarily) ONLY CONSERVATIVE NEWS SOURCES are reporting about this deception is very telling, don't you think? (And remember, I say that being unaffiliated.)
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 03:40 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26829284 - 07/17/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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You aren't unaffiliated, though. We have all seen stealth righties before.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil] 1
#26829288 - 07/17/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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You don't know me better than I know me.
If this is how you're going to attempt to one-up me, it's going to backfire.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26829305 - 07/17/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'll bite.
While you might be correct that the numbers are somewhat inflated, and that hospitals make more by reporting Covid deaths, it still appears that Covid is FAR deadlier than the flu. As I said before, I knew the first person to die of Covid in the US, and even if the 'true' number of deaths isn't quite 140,000+ (and rapidly growing), it's still FAR more than a flu, and has potential for long term consequences other than death.
Neither of these things are true. Nobody makes more money for reporting a covid death. And the numbers are not inflated they are under reported. People who die of covid who were never diagnosed aren’t included generally. The US death toll is closer to 200,000.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829324 - 07/17/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: I don't think the virus is a hoax, I think they've capitalized on human being's propensity for fear and made appear 100 times worse than it really is.
Given how inflated the numbers are, I would be surprised to find out less people actually DIRECTLY die or have permanent damage from covid than they do in automobile accidents.
People seem to argue about what the actual death rate is. My research tells me it's way less than 1%.
Right, and I agreed there's some exaggeration, but how did you get to "100 times worse than it really is"?
I don't know how inflated the numbers are, but I'd guess no more than 10%, which still makes covid pretty deadly. But that's just a guess, so if you explain your research, I can be persuaded to change my guess.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Psilynut2
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829335 - 07/17/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
"racist, sexist" bigot.
Pretty good reasons not to like someone , IMO .
Edited by Psilynut2 (07/17/20 04:07 PM)
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Psilynut2]
#26829359 - 07/17/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/
"I would remind him that anytime health care intersects with dollars it gets awkward. Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital, you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000, three times as much. Nobody can tell me after 35 years in the world of medicine that sometimes those kinds of things impact on what we do."
"It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate)."
Basically what is unconfirmed is whether or not hospitals are intentionally doing it to make more money.
Um, duh. This is the human condition 101. We're not the altruistic motherfuckers we think we are. If we find a way to make some easy bucks that doesn't require us breaking the law, you can bet motherfuckers are gonna do it.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 04:17 PM)
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829367 - 07/17/20 04:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Same article: "it is acceptable to report COVID-19 on a death certificate as ‘probable’ or ‘presumed.'“If we think it’s presumptive … we can go ahead and put down COVID-19,” Jensen said, “or even in some situations, even if it’s negative.” He pointed to the example of a 38-year-old man in Minnesota whose death was attributed to the coronavirus even though he tested negative."
Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 04:20 PM)
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829374 - 07/17/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Where’s the evidence of them faking covid for payment?
Your original claim is they get paid more for a covid death
Just to be clear. Medicare pays a flat fee to hospitals for their services. For covid. For chemo. For everything. They get the same amount if they live or die or how many days they spend in hospital. There’s no conspiracy.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26829378 - 07/17/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Medicare pays a flat fee to hospitals for their services.
"It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate).
Both of those provisions stem from the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or CARES Act.
The CARES Act created the 20% add-on to be paid for Medicare patients with COVID-19. The act further created a $100 billion fund that is being used to financially assist hospitals — a “portion” of which will be “used to reimburse healthcare providers, at Medicare rates, for COVID-related treatment of the uninsured,” according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services."
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829379 - 07/17/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Where’s the evidence of them faking covid?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829380 - 07/17/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Your original claim is they get paid more for a covid death
I may have misspoken on this point. It may be for actual treatment of covid and not the death per ce.
What I am now digging into is whether or not hospitals get another chunk of money from medicare or insurance relating to someone dying in their hospital. (It's likely true, but I need confirmation.) If/when I figure out how much money that is, the above bonuses in the last post I just threw up would apply to that as well, so hospitals would indeed make more money for not just treatments of covid, but covid related deaths.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26829384 - 07/17/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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*per se
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26829396 - 07/17/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm gonna re-quote something cuz this REALLY got me thinking and I almost missed it...
"The CARES Act created the 20% add-on to be paid for Medicare patients with COVID-19. The act further created a $100 billion fund that is being used to financially assist hospitals — a “portion” of which will be “used to reimburse healthcare providers, at Medicare rates, for COVID-related treatment of the uninsured,"
So basically if someone "has Covid" and doesn't have insurance, hospitals can go from making very little to MAKING BANK by making their patient's entire journey all the way up until death Covid related. You fill out all the forms to get your reimbursement from the uninsured, mark them all "covid," and Medicare sweeps in and says, "here's a lot of fucking money!"
They have to tell the story all the way to the end in order to make maximum money off of the uninsured.
If that isn't enough proof of why they are inflating the covid death count, I don't know what is.
Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 04:42 PM)
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26829400 - 07/17/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Making bank? You think a hospital that only gets $39,000 for someone on a ventilator for three weeks is making bank? You really have no clue how the world works. You’d be charged a half million dollars for that service.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26829402 - 07/17/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude, you're so not worth my time. Here, look at the pretty fish instead.
Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 04:43 PM)
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829414 - 07/17/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/17/20 04:50 PM)
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods] 1
#26829419 - 07/17/20 04:53 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Still waiting for any evidence hospitals are faking covid patients
I’m gonna assume the motorcycle dude was not a Medicare patient so how exactly does any of this apply to him?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/17/20 04:56 PM)
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26829425 - 07/17/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I guarantee you that hospitals are losing massive amounts of money treating covid patients on Medicare
"Making Bank" is relative. If you don't think 40K is a lot, I'll gladly take it off your hands. Nitpicking my words just because hospitals are running into a deficit (like most every other fucking business in America) isn't the point, it's a distraction from the point. The POINT is that they're making a lot more money than the would be otherwise by inflating the numbers of covid cases/deaths.
And furthermore, it's not just medicare that is involved, it's insurance, too. And I have no fucking clue how much money that is, but my spider sense tells me it's no small amount.
Quote:
Still waiting for any evidence hospitals are faking covid patients
So there's this video you can go digging for if you'd like. It's the first post on the first page of this thread.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 04:58 PM)
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 2
#26829430 - 07/17/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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You mean the link for Facebook? I’m talking about legitimate evidence.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods] 1
#26829432 - 07/17/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
The POINT is that they're making a lot more money than the would be otherwise by inflating the numbers of covid cases/deaths.
Source or make believe?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26829442 - 07/17/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Google, "Florida Covid-cases" and do your own research. There's a lot more evidence littered around, like this video. It's not hard to figure this out.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 05:28 PM)
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Psilynut2
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 3
#26829511 - 07/17/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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You make the claim you provide the evidence to back it up. It’s either that or your wrong that’s how things work here .
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Psilynut2]
#26829570 - 07/17/20 06:36 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Indeed:
2) Although this may not always be possible (for example quoting from print only sources), when quoting a source provide a link.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Psilynut2
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: SirTripAlot] 1
#26829611 - 07/17/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do I need a source to say Florida is fucking stupid and we should just saw that bullshit off and sell it to Russia ? That’s common sense right ?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26829614 - 07/17/20 07:01 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
koods said: Nobody makes more money for reporting a covid death.
The POINT is that they're making a lot more money than the would be otherwise by inflating the numbers of covid cases/deaths.
Source or make believe?
I found this on factcheck.org:
Quote:
It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate).
Both of those provisions stem from the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or CARES Act.
So koods was wrong about them not making more.
However, factcheck.org also feels the frequency of misreporting covid-19 is very low based on interviews with three medical professionals.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Psilynut2] 1
#26829617 - 07/17/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Do I need a source to say Florida is fucking stupid and we should just saw that bullshit off and sell it to Russia ? That’s common sense right ?
--------------------
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C12ShroomMan
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26829619 - 07/17/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, look to florida. They knew covid 19 was fake news, kept everything open and 2 months later they are still the lowest infection ra... oh wait
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: C12ShroomMan]
#26829637 - 07/17/20 07:13 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Covid is real, but its threat has been grossly exaggerated.
https://covidusa.net/?state=Florida
Look at the daily cases number go WAY up while the death number just... almost stays in the same place the entire time.
This is just super weird to me. It's so hard to pinpoint how much they are lying about, but these two stats next to each other make absolutely no sense. There are enough weeks on the chart that there should be SOME correlation...
It's just odd...
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 07:14 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829667 - 07/17/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: Covid is real, but its threat has been grossly exaggerated.
Look at the daily cases number go WAY up while the death number just... almost stays in the same place the entire time.
This is just super weird to me. It's so hard to pinpoint how much they are lying about, but these two stats next to each other make absolutely no sense. There are enough weeks on the chart that there should be SOME correlation...
You don't see the correlation because both graphs use the same scale, and the deaths scale is too small to see.
From your link, here is what deaths looks like on its own scale:
Yes, deaths are going up in Florida.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 3
#26829685 - 07/17/20 07:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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What is very likely underestimated/under-reported is the permanent organ damage that's done by this virus. We are just getting the studies that indicate the organ damage from people that had even minor symptoms from this virus.
So maybe stop fixating on just the deaths and give a little more attention to the long term ramifications from contracting the virus.
My theory is that the US media is purposely ignoring this horrible aspect of the virus to not create panic in the general population. That's why so many people just focus on the death rates and think not dying is some sort of free pass, when in fact it's not.
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26829702 - 07/17/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: Covid is real, but its threat has been grossly exaggerated.
Look at the daily cases number go WAY up while the death number just... almost stays in the same place the entire time.
This is just super weird to me. It's so hard to pinpoint how much they are lying about, but these two stats next to each other make absolutely no sense. There are enough weeks on the chart that there should be SOME correlation...
You don't see the correlation because both graphs use the same scale, and the deaths scale is too small to see.
From your link, here is what deaths looks like on its own scale:
Yes, deaths are going up in Florida.
Actually yeah if you look real closely on the first graph you can barely see that red line creeping up at the end.
So Florida is right around double the number of deaths per day we were 90 days ago.
However, they're having more than ten times the number of cases as they were 90 days ago.
I smell a rat!
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: qman]
#26829705 - 07/17/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: What is very likely underestimated/under-reported is the permanent organ damage that's done by this virus. We are just getting the studies that indicate the organ damage from people that had even minor symptoms from this virus.
So maybe stop fixating on just the deaths and give a little more attention to the long term ramifications from contracting the virus.
My theory is that the US media is purposely ignoring this horrible aspect of the virus to not create panic in the general population. That's why so many people just focus on the death rates and think not dying is some sort of free pass, when in fact it's not.
I've met a lot of people that have recovered from Covid, and even know a few that knew a few who have died from it... but do we know anyone that is alive and has organ damage? How common IS that end result for cases?
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26829725 - 07/17/20 08:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Deaths lag behind cases by a month or so.
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vinsue
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26829804 - 07/17/20 09:26 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Do I need a source to say Florida is fucking stupid and we should just saw that bullshit off and sell it to Russia ? That’s common sense right ?
This is the best post you've made here since you got woke.
. . .
-------------------- "All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26830082 - 07/18/20 01:41 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: So Florida is right around double the number of deaths per day we were 90 days ago.
However, they're having more than ten times the number of cases as they were 90 days ago.
I smell a rat!
Deaths lag behind cases by a month or so.
Exactly. And there's more testing now. Plus, I've heard treatment is getting better as well.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Brian Jones
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: qman]
#26830118 - 07/18/20 03:06 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, a recent study showed that an alarmingly high proportion of people who recovered suffered heart damage, and there are also reports of brain damage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OP started this post to assert that the fatality numbers are grossly overstated, and provided evidence consisting of one anecdote on FOX news about a guy who died on his motorcycle and the doctor in the interview wasn't sure if this was counted in the statistics.
WTF
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26830326 - 07/18/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
koods said: Nobody makes more money for reporting a covid death.
The POINT is that they're making a lot more money than the would be otherwise by inflating the numbers of covid cases/deaths.
Source or make believe?
I found this on factcheck.org:
Quote:
It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate).
Both of those provisions stem from the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or CARES Act.
So koods was wrong about them not making more..
Source or make believe? Where does it say they make more money for reporting a covid death?
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/18/20 08:21 AM)
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bodhisatta
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26830412 - 07/18/20 09:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Only an Illinois thing? Probably not
Quote:
Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.
"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26830814 - 07/18/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: The POINT is that they're making a lot more money than the would be otherwise by inflating the numbers of covid cases/deaths.
Source or make believe?
I found this on factcheck.org:
Quote:
the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases... by paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency
So koods was wrong about them not making more..
Source or make believe? Where does it say they make more money for reporting a covid death?
Vahn said they make more for reporting "covid cases/deaths". And you just quoted that they'll make an extra 20%.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26830822 - 07/18/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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For reporting? No. For treating, yes.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26830899 - 07/18/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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How would anyone know about the treatment of Covid if it's not reported?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26830902 - 07/18/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Billing. It's a common thing for hospitals to bill for services, and when they do, they use diagnosis codes.
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26830907 - 07/18/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: For reporting? No. For treating, yes.
How are they going to treat a case of "covid" if it isn't reported as such?
I think separating these two concepts isn't very pragmatic.
--------------------
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26830910 - 07/18/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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You're saying they can't treat an illness without reporting it to someone?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26830921 - 07/18/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Of course they can, but if they report it as a covid treatment they get paid an extra 20%.
This is just another bullshit semantics debate.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26830925 - 07/18/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You're saying they can't treat an illness without reporting it to someone?
LMAO. Yes, of course. First to their hospital databank, then up the chain of command. If someone dies, usually it gets reported even further down a network.
--------------------
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26830937 - 07/18/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So, you're saying that hospitals are intentionally misdiagnosing people for 20%? That seems incredibly risky since malpractice cases can easily eclipse the extra money made.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26830949 - 07/18/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: So, you're saying that hospitals are intentionally misdiagnosing people for 20%? That seems incredibly risky since malpractice cases can easily eclipse the extra money made.
Am I saying that? No, I said just the opposite: "factcheck.org also feels the frequency of misreporting covid-19 is very low"
My point is that you DO get paid 20% more for Covid cases.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26830994 - 07/18/20 03:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, I don't get paid shit for covid cases.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26831028 - 07/18/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Bam, another semantics victory!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26831045 - 07/18/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: For reporting? No. For treating, yes.
How are they going to treat a case of "covid" if it isn't reported as such?
I think separating these two concepts isn't very pragmatic.
What treatment did the guy who spattered his brains on the highway get?
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Psilynut2
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods] 1
#26831063 - 07/18/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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How do we know Covid didn’t cause the crash ? I’ve seen allot of news stories about people having sudden hallucinations and weird shit going on with their brains when the disease hits them . It could have been a Covid death .
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods] 1
#26831091 - 07/18/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: For reporting? No. For treating, yes.
How are they going to treat a case of "covid" if it isn't reported as such?
I think separating these two concepts isn't very pragmatic.
What treatment did the guy who spattered his brains on the highway get?
This speaks to the real bullshit in this thread. "Reporting" is not the same as "Diagnosing." IF that dude was reported as a covid death, which is a big if, his treatment would still not have qualified for a 20% bump.
To get that 20%, the treatment has to be a proper covid treatment for a covid-diagnosed patient. It's not like they just add covid, and any treatment gets bumped 20%. That's not how medical billing has ever worked. Medicare works just like any insurance....Diagnosis code = a range of approved treatments. I guarantee that a leg cast isn't one of the approved covid treatments. Of course, the 20% is only for medicare patients, too...not people using private insurance.
Of course, "reporting" is completely different and unrelated. Covid cases are currently being reported to the white house. Used to be the CDC until trump felt they were ill-equipped to do the very job they're chartered to do. (Who's in charge of the executive branch, anyway? Shouldn't that person be responsible for making sure the CDC does their job?) Reporting occurs as soon as a positive test is confirmed. There's no 20% bonus for that at all.
That's why I pointed out the difference...not because it's semantical....because it goes to the core of this entire discussion. The covid numbers being published come from test results being reported. The 20% comes from a diagnostic code on a bill that isn't generated until after treatment. Two completely different things, and conflating them for purposes of pretending there's some conspiracy to treat non-covid patients as covid patients for money is simply misleading.
The reality on the ground is that if a hospital wants that 20%, they're going to have to give covid treatment to a patient. If that patient doesn't need covid treatment, that's going to mean committing malpractice. Similarly, if a patient is denied non-covid treatment that he/she needs, that's malpractice. The very notion that doctors are out there risking everything they have for a 20% bump is ridiculous.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Psilynut2]
#26831150 - 07/18/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: How do we know Covid didn’t cause the crash ? I’ve seen allot of news stories about people having sudden hallucinations and weird shit going on with their brains when the disease hits them . It could have been a Covid death .
Maybe the guy was rushing to the hospital and driving fast to push air into his lungs and get there before he passed out - which he didn’t. Dude passed out and crashed. Another tragic covid victim. RIP motorcycle man.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26833259 - 07/19/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Plus, I've heard treatment is getting better as well.
Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows
Quote:
In a large-scale retrospective analysis of 2,541 patients hospitalized between March 10 and May 2, 2020 across the system’s six hospitals, the study found 13% of those treated with hydroxychloroquine alone died compared to 26.4% not treated with hydroxychloroquine. None of the patients had documented serious heart abnormalities; however, patients were monitored for a heart condition routinely pointed to as a reason to avoid the drug as a treatment for COVID-19.
The study was published today in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases, the peer-reviewed, open-access online publication of the International Society of Infectious Diseases (ISID.org).
“We attribute our findings that differ from other studies to early treatment, and part of a combination of interventions that were done in supportive care of patients, including careful cardiac monitoring. Our dosing also differed from other studies not showing a benefit of the drug. And other studies are either not peer reviewed, have limited numbers of patients, different patient populations or other differences from our patients.”
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26833332 - 07/19/20 09:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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We’ve moved on from that stuff. Doesn’t work. It would be medical malpractice for it to be used to try to save someone’s life.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/19/20 10:02 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26833351 - 07/19/20 10:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, YOU'VE moved on, doctors have not. They're still studying it.
I even quoted the reason why it was previously deemed dangerous ("a heart condition routinely pointed to as a reason to avoid the drug as a treatment for COVID-19.")
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26833366 - 07/19/20 10:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes amazing how you don’t have as many deaths when you exclude people with heart problems from your trials.
There are still studies ongoing, but the drug is no longer being used to treat patients in a clinical setting. It really is a tragedy so much time and life was wasted on HQC. It never worked. Despite that something like 75% of patients received it. Now that it’s not being used anymore, mortality is lower.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/19/20 10:43 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26833385 - 07/19/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are people with heart problems the only ones who catch Covid-19? Those without the heart condition die at only half the rate when they take HCQ.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (07/19/20 10:45 PM)
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26833393 - 07/19/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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The study has been widely discredited. Turns out the HCQ group was receiving steroids at a higher rate and we now know that some steroids can significantly improve outcomes.
What is this obsession with a drug that has not shown any kind of consistent results. We actually have a couple drugs that seem to be fairly effective, but I haven’t seen you posting those studies 🤷♂️
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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meltdowner
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26833411 - 07/19/20 11:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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we shouldnt. This entire covid debacle is about getting trump out of office. Imagine that china is the source of the virus, who has the most to gain from trump leaving office. Literally hundreds of billions dollars at stake. China owna much of the US media.
The covid flu will be forgotten in 2021 like the russian hoax has already been forgotten. Enjoy the last 5 months of working from home and say thanka to china for it.
Trump will win in 2020. China is in big trouble in little chyna!
-------------------- I'm a Lightweight. I like to eat like two caps at a time.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: meltdowner] 1
#26833422 - 07/19/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Trump is the one doing everything possible to get Trump out of office.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26833427 - 07/19/20 11:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trump will win in 2020.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26833439 - 07/19/20 11:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: The study has been widely discredited. Turns out the HCQ group was receiving steroids at a higher rate and we now know that some steroids can significantly improve outcomes.
No, it hasn't been "widely discredited". Many have argued that more studies still need to be done, which I agree with.
Quote:
koods said: What is this obsession with a drug that has not shown any kind of consistent results.
The obsession comes from people who want to find the best possible treatment, without discounting anything just because Trump mentioned it.
Quote:
koods said: We actually have a couple drugs that seem to be fairly effective, but I haven’t seen you posting those studies 🤷♂️
I haven't seen you posting those studies either. Post 'em dude!
ALL drugs should be studied, not just the ones Trump doesn't mention.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26833440 - 07/19/20 11:30 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I’ve been saying HCQ was a dead end long before trump ever heard of it.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/19/20 11:31 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26833443 - 07/19/20 11:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's still to be determined.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26833451 - 07/19/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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In your mind, yes.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26833471 - 07/19/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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A Scottish Doctor had this to say:
Quote:
The financial muscle of Big Pharma has been busy distorting science during the pandemic
Evidence that a cheap, over-the-counter anti-malarial drug costing £7 combats COVID-19 gets trashed. Why? Because the pharmaceutical giants want to sell you a treatment costing nearly £2,000.
A secretly recorded meeting between the editors-in-chief of The Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine reveal both men bemoaning the ‘criminal’ influence big pharma has on scientific research:
"Now we are not going to be able to, basically, if this continues, publish any more clinical research data because the pharmaceutical companies are so financially powerful today, and are able to use such methodologies, as to have us accept papers which are apparently methodologically perfect, but which, in reality, manage to conclude what they want them to conclude,” said Lancet [editor-in-chief] Richard Horton.
One issue that has played out over the last few months, has stripped away any remaining vestiges of my trust in medical research. It concerns the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine. You may well be aware that Donald Trump endorsed it – which presents a whole series of problems for many people.
In this world, cheap drugs e.g., hydroxychloroquine, don’t stand much chance.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26833476 - 07/20/20 12:06 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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What Falcon said.
Given the fact that this is the SHROOMERY, I'm actually busting my gut thinking about anyone here trying to defend the idea that big pharma ISN'T corrupt as fuck.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Vahn421]
#26833521 - 07/20/20 01:59 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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If someone proves its effective for covid, they can patent the drug to treat covid. Don’t be naive. There was a lot of money to be made if it worked out
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26834034 - 07/20/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are you saying if HCQ is proven effective for treating covid, the entity finding it effective gets to repatent it even though it's been on the market for over 50 years?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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bodhisatta
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834042 - 07/20/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yep. How and what its used for is the patent more than the drug in that case.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: bodhisatta]
#26834095 - 07/20/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So if I find a new use for something that's already in the public domain, I can repatent it? I'm gonna need a source for that.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834143 - 07/20/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Use for something? Or a drug treatment?
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danhoeg
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26834145 - 07/20/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not sure about this either. Although, I think the strategy is to say that the lying is to cover up Trump's response and possibly influence the general election.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26834150 - 07/20/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Use for something? Or a drug treatment?
You tell me, you're the lawyer. My question is can someone re-patent HCQ if they find another use (treatment) for it?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834153 - 07/20/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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They don't patent the drug. They patent the treatment protocol with the drug. If someone discovered that pine cone tea cured cancer today, they could patent that treatment. They could sell cancer-fighting pine cone tea under that patent.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26834166 - 07/20/20 12:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Could people still sell pine cone tea?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834196 - 07/20/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Absolutely. They just can't market it for use as a cure for cancer.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26834257 - 07/20/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Could doctors recommend patients buy pine cone tea if they knew it cured cancer?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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bodhisatta
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834261 - 07/20/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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If they wanted their licence on the line sure. But pinecones would start getting absurdly expensive anyway
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: bodhisatta]
#26834264 - 07/20/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Are you saying if HCQ is proven effective for treating covid, the entity finding it effective gets to repatent it even though it's been on the market for over 50 years?
Yes
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/20/20 01:12 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: bodhisatta]
#26834271 - 07/20/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Could doctors recommend patients buy pine cone tea if they knew it cured cancer?
If they wanted their licence on the line sure. But pinecones would start getting absurdly expensive anyway
Seriously? If a doctor recommended a known cure for cancer to their patients, they could lose their license?
Source?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834281 - 07/20/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Could doctors recommend patients buy pine cone tea if they knew it cured cancer?
Pine cone tea is not an FDA approved drug
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834284 - 07/20/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Could doctors recommend patients buy pine cone tea if they knew it cured cancer?
If they wanted their licence on the line sure. But pinecones would start getting absurdly expensive anyway
Seriously? If a doctor recommended a known cure for cancer to their patients, they could lose their license?
Source?
I can kind of attest to this kind of thing, having been in amateur herbology most of my life.
There are a lot of natural cures that there's just no money in and some wonderful plants, like comfrey, have been falsely reported by health officials to be toxic from one or two biased studies. Despite comfrey growing out of the ground ALL OVER, most people don't realize it's better than almost anything else I know of for cuts, scrapes, bruises, pretty much anything that involves flesh, tissue or bone.
I've seen healings that have taken place exponentially fast due to the use of comfrey and often with no scar tissue, or very minimal. But due to its status with the FDA, no one can sell it or recommend it for oral use, only externally. (which loses half its healing benefits.)
So the technically answer would be yes, a doctor could lose their license for recommending some things that actually work.
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bodhisatta
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834337 - 07/20/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Could doctors recommend patients buy pine cone tea if they knew it cured cancer?
If they wanted their licence on the line sure. But pinecones would start getting absurdly expensive anyway
Seriously? If a doctor recommended a known cure for cancer to their patients, they could lose their license?
Source?
Google it. You don't need sources for everything that's literally common knowledge. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA would be on all the pinecones for sale that were not made or sourced and then purity tested for the parented use of them. So a doctor would be in hot water telling people to go eat who knows where from bootleg grey market pinecones.
You think a doctor can tell you to whip up some saline solution and inject it if you're dehydrated? Nope. They can't even tell you to go buy Walgreen's brand saline and inject it.
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bodhisatta
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: bodhisatta]
#26834343 - 07/20/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Pinecones need to be sterile, tested, pure, and dose accurate. The only pinecones a doctor can give are the ones that are part of the correct supply chain. The patented pharmaceutical pinecone.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: bodhisatta]
#26834365 - 07/20/20 02:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA would be on all the pinecones for sale that were not made or sourced and then purity tested for the parented use of them. So a doctor would be in hot water telling people to go eat who knows where from bootleg grey market pinecones.
You think a doctor can tell you to whip up some saline solution and inject it if you're dehydrated? Nope. They can't even tell you to go buy Walgreen's brand saline and inject it.
Pinecones need to be sterile, tested, pure, and dose accurate. The only pinecones a doctor can give are the ones that are part of the correct supply chain. The patented pharmaceutical pinecone.
That example isn't relevant to the current discussion. HCQ has LONG been FDA approved.
The question is if someone discovers a new use for HCQ, can they patent it, and would other doctors be allowed to tell their patients the new patented drug is the same as the old FDA approved HCQ?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834388 - 07/20/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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It isn't about whether a doctor could tell them. It's whether a doctor could prescribe it. You can't get it over the counter.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26834410 - 07/20/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA would be on all the pinecones for sale that were not made or sourced and then purity tested for the parented use of them. So a doctor would be in hot water telling people to go eat who knows where from bootleg grey market pinecones.
You think a doctor can tell you to whip up some saline solution and inject it if you're dehydrated? Nope. They can't even tell you to go buy Walgreen's brand saline and inject it.
Pinecones need to be sterile, tested, pure, and dose accurate. The only pinecones a doctor can give are the ones that are part of the correct supply chain. The patented pharmaceutical pinecone.
That example isn't relevant to the current discussion. HCQ has LONG been FDA approved.
The question is if someone discovers a new use for HCQ, can they patent it, and would other doctors be allowed to tell their patients the new patented drug is the same as the old FDA approved HCQ?
It’s already FDA approved. Someone would just need to apply for a new use patent. (Drugs are approved for treating conditions and that drug can only be marketed as a treatment for those conditions. But a doctor can prescribe a drug for any reason he wishes.
--------------------
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil]
#26834418 - 07/20/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Exactly, that was the question. Could a doctor prescribe the original HCQ for cancer knowing it's the same as the new more expensive patented version? It sounds like the answer is no.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26834424 - 07/20/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: ...a doctor can prescribe a drug for any reason he wishes.
Are you saying a doctor could prescibe the old HCQ for cancer then? I'm just trying to understand the law.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834469 - 07/20/20 03:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't have the answer to that. The doctor's conduct wouldn't really be bound by the patent law. Whether it would be a violation of doctor rules, I don't know.
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koods
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26834472 - 07/20/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Exactly, that was the question. Could a doctor prescribe the original HCQ for cancer knowing it's the same as the new more expensive patented version? It sounds like the answer is no.
The doctor could prescribe generic HCQ but some company would still have the exclusive rights to market their brand name HCQ for the treatment of covid.
RONAQUIN* for Covid-19. Ask your doctor about it today.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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bodhisatta
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26834481 - 07/20/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA would be on all the pinecones for sale that were not made or sourced and then purity tested for the parented use of them. So a doctor would be in hot water telling people to go eat who knows where from bootleg grey market pinecones.
You think a doctor can tell you to whip up some saline solution and inject it if you're dehydrated? Nope. They can't even tell you to go buy Walgreen's brand saline and inject it.
Pinecones need to be sterile, tested, pure, and dose accurate. The only pinecones a doctor can give are the ones that are part of the correct supply chain. The patented pharmaceutical pinecone.
That example isn't relevant to the current discussion. HCQ has LONG been FDA approved.
The question is if someone discovers a new use for HCQ, can they patent it, and would other doctors be allowed to tell their patients the new patented drug is the same as the old FDA approved HCQ?
Evaluated for a entirely different use in the format its already in.
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koods
Ribbit
Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,919
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 32 minutes, 33 seconds
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: koods]
#26834492 - 07/20/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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For example Viagra is the brand name for 50 or 100mg sildenafil tablets. There is no generic version of viagra. But before sildenafil was approved as a boner pill, it had already been on the market for treating a type of hypertension under the brand name Revatio. There is a generic version of revatio. So if you know what you’re doing you can just get the generic revatio and use it for boners.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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meltdowner
Total Noob
Registered: 09/06/17
Posts: 1,457
Loc: New York City
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: Enlil] 1
#26834846 - 07/20/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So your argument is irrelevant. Are all leftists intentionally obtuse or do they just get lost in their own gymnastics?
-------------------- I'm a Lightweight. I like to eat like two caps at a time.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,273
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Motorcycle Crash Victim Included in FL Covid-19 Fatality Numbers [Re: meltdowner]
#26834859 - 07/20/20 07:42 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wasn't arguing anything nor am i a leftist. I'm about as alt right as a person can get.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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