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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: Ice9] 1
#26823955 - 07/14/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said:
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:
Ice9 said: Yes, and the US is systemically racist, bad enough that not doing something about it makes you a racist. I repeat if you are ok with the status quo, you are a damn bigoted fuck ass white supremacist racist. So all you keyboard warrior wanna be allies, get out there and walk the fucking walk, like a true a patriot who believes in All *Men* Were Created Equal(ladies, I got you too, I haven't forgotten your plight, it is in essence, the very same battle as BLM). So come at me you mysoginists, you racists. I say right here, directly to you FUCK YOU!
woah. I think you're portraying the best example of a keyboard warrior, calling people names and saying "fuck you".
Point to a specific institution that does verifiably racist things and I'll happily support you in correcting the issue but idk what problem you have with the "status quo"
US for profit jail system, hell the entire judicial branch of government. Look up the stats, for the same exact crime, in the same town/state and look up the sentencing disparity between White and non-white.
Edit: Yes it was keyboard warriory, but I also attended BLM protests, put myself between protesters and police, I donated my 1200$ gubment check to a food bank that serves mostly POC, also white people too, they don't discriminate. I donate both money and time at local charities, the real small ones that actually help people, as opposed to using 90% of the donations on executive pay and advertisement.
Want a cookie?
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 2 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: Ice9] 1
#26823958 - 07/14/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said:
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:
Ice9 said: Yes, and the US is systemically racist, bad enough that not doing something about it makes you a racist. I repeat if you are ok with the status quo, you are a damn bigoted fuck ass white supremacist racist. So all you keyboard warrior wanna be allies, get out there and walk the fucking walk, like a true a patriot who believes in All *Men* Were Created Equal(ladies, I got you too, I haven't forgotten your plight, it is in essence, the very same battle as BLM). So come at me you mysoginists, you racists. I say right here, directly to you FUCK YOU!
woah. I think you're portraying the best example of a keyboard warrior, calling people names and saying "fuck you".
Point to a specific institution that does verifiably racist things and I'll happily support you in correcting the issue but idk what problem you have with the "status quo"
US for profit jail system, hell the entire judicial branch of government. Look up the stats, for the same exact crime, in the same town/state and look up the sentencing disparity between White and non-white.
Edit: Yes it was keyboard warriory, but I also attended BLM protests, put myself between protesters and police, I donated my 1200$ gubment check to a food bank that serves mostly POC, also white people too, they don't discriminate. I donate both money and time at local charities, the real small ones that actually help people, as opposed to using 90% of the donations on executive pay and advertisement.
I just made a donation to Wounded Warriors Canada earlier today. Big whoop, wanna fight about it?
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: BANANA.MAN] 1
#26823961 - 07/14/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Some need a study to see bc they r blind.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 16 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: BANANA.MAN] 1
#26823967 - 07/14/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:
Ice9 said: Yes, and the US is systemically racist, bad enough that not doing something about it makes you a racist. I repeat if you are ok with the status quo, you are a damn bigoted fuck ass white supremacist racist. So all you keyboard warrior wanna be allies, get out there and walk the fucking walk, like a true a patriot who believes in All *Men* Were Created Equal(ladies, I got you too, I haven't forgotten your plight, it is in essence, the very same battle as BLM). So come at me you mysoginists, you racists. I say right here, directly to you FUCK YOU!
woah. I think you're portraying the best example of a keyboard warrior, calling people names and saying "fuck you".
Point to a specific institution that does verifiably racist things and I'll happily support you in correcting the issue but idk what problem you have with the "status quo"
You're not going to find that institution. You might find racist individuals in any institution, but that doesn't mean that institution promotes racism. How do you fix racist individuals? Everyone prejudges other people and environments to some extent, it's human nature.
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: qman] 1
#26824042 - 07/14/20 09:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree with the statement black lives matter.
I disagree with some of the positions of the organization Black Lives Matter and don't consider them representatives of all black people.
The naming of Black Lives Matter is such that any criticism creates an unconscious suggestion that you don't think the lives of black people matter and people react in that way when criticizing the group.
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:
Ice9 said: Yes, and the US is systemically racist, bad enough that not doing something about it makes you a racist. I repeat if you are ok with the status quo, you are a damn bigoted fuck ass white supremacist racist. So all you keyboard warrior wanna be allies, get out there and walk the fucking walk, like a true a patriot who believes in All *Men* Were Created Equal(ladies, I got you too, I haven't forgotten your plight, it is in essence, the very same battle as BLM). So come at me you mysoginists, you racists. I say right here, directly to you FUCK YOU!
woah. I think you're portraying the best example of a keyboard warrior, calling people names and saying "fuck you".
Point to a specific institution that does verifiably racist things and I'll happily support you in correcting the issue but idk what problem you have with the "status quo"
Our society is fucked in a lot of ways. Which status quo would you like to change? I personally find is appalling when anyone buys Jordans or Jordan gear. Especially if they are into protesting. Michael Jordan owns stock in private prisons as part of the school-to-prison pipeline. If you have "J's on my feet, so get like me" you sound ignorant to me and even more ignorant if you're about social progress and justice.
A black person supporting Michael Jordan is the equivalent of gay people supporting Chik-Fil-A or ISIS/fundamentalism. What kinda fucked up world is it when someone would steal the shoe of a person who plans to profit off their incarceration for stealing the shoe and also profits off the manipulation of emotions which lead you to want the shoe in the first place. So yeah school to prison pipeline and the idolization of Michael Jordan definitely are fucked.
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 12,845
Loc: Bada-Bing!
Last seen: 24 seconds
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I’d like to see a source about Mike owning stock in private prisons. I could t find it when I looked last time. I’ll see if I can find it but I’m not sure that’s true
https://blog.globaltel.com/michael-jordan-prison-investment/ It is possible though I mean his father was murdered on the side of the road While he was sleeping ffs. Could make u invest in something like that
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
Edited by theRealrollforever (07/14/20 09:53 PM)
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: I’d like to see a source about Mike owning stock in private prisons. I could t find it when I looked last time. I’ll see if I can find it but I’m not sure that’s true
https://blog.globaltel.com/michael-jordan-prison-investment/ It is possible though I mean his father was murdered on the side of the road While he was sleeping ffs. Could make u invest in something like that
You right you right I was misinformed years ago and hadn't further checked since. Holy fuck imagine how fucked shit would be if it was that way I've been like "fuck jordans he a bitch" for years LOL I'm still gonna be like that cause FUCK NIKE It is sad that his dad was murdered I forgot about that.
Still need to end the school-to-prison pipeline tho
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 12,845
Loc: Bada-Bing!
Last seen: 24 seconds
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Ya mosdef I heard the same thing years ago and I’m a big Jordan fan so I went looking determined to find out if one of my heroes was a privatized prison monger
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
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CLEAN WATER FOR FLINT MICHIGAN!!!!
The trailer court I grew up in needs to update it's plumbing and systems of communication because there would be boil orders like monthly and they wouldn't inform people outside of posting a small notice at the entrance to the trailer court. My mom is disabled and was stricken with PTSD and wouldn't even know she needed to boil her water in order for it to be safe to drink it until I'd get there and let her know.
Clean water for everybody!! FUCK NESTLE!!!
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,319
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 37 minutes, 23 seconds
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gubment study on the matter for the man who can't google himself.
Recidivism rates not at discussion, as a meta-analysis will control for that among many other factors. Don't know why I even post, doubt you have the tools to understand any study, and merely look at abstracts till you find one you believe confirms your already set world view. Funny thing is, most people draw conclusions from studies that the study explicitly says cannot be drawn from said particular study. If it fits your narrative though, have at it I guess.
Edit:at bananaman, but the rest of you racists might be able to read it too... still doubt any of you have a clue how to make a meta-analysis and control for all factors outside race. Maybe one of you will surprise me, but I keep my hopes low, that way I can't be disappointed.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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ichugwindex
Dex



Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,613
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 11 months, 20 days
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: Ice9] 2
#26824252 - 07/15/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've yet to see proof of a single racist member in my years here. Except maybe xul
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
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ONE OZ SLUG
-


Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 17,839
Loc: TX
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Bodhi of Ankou is one I remember well. And he was proud of it. Even shaved his head.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,865
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
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Stereotyping people based on race is racism and harmful to a society right?
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,772
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
ichugwindex said: I've yet to see proof of a single racist member in my years here. Except maybe xul
The label gets thrown around so much these days that it really has lost its meaning. And I swear it's mind blowing how many people don't seem to really grasp or understand at all what a true, genuine racist really is.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 2 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: Ice9] 4
#26825268 - 07/15/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: gubment study on the matter for the man who can't google himself.
Recidivism rates not at discussion, as a meta-analysis will control for that among many other factors. Don't know why I even post, doubt you have the tools to understand any study, and merely look at abstracts till you find one you believe confirms your already set world view. Funny thing is, most people draw conclusions from studies that the study explicitly says cannot be drawn from said particular study. If it fits your narrative though, have at it I guess.
Edit:at bananaman, but the rest of you racists might be able to read it too... still doubt any of you have a clue how to make a meta-analysis and control for all factors outside race. Maybe one of you will surprise me, but I keep my hopes low, that way I can't be disappointed.
Ok, seriously, calling people who disagree with you racist with no evidence is acctually really crappy. It doesn't surprise me that the kind of person to pull that stuff is the same kind of person who automatically assumes any inequality between races is the result of injustice.
Why are you coming out of the gates saying idk how to read a study and assuming I am guilty of things that others you have had this discussion with are guilty of? why can't you just have a conversation with me not some straw man? I have no ill will toward you. If you want to continue with the completely unprovoked hostility then I am not interested in having this discussion with you. Arguments are for name calling and personal attacks, discussions are for getting to the bottom of stuff.
Differences in sentancing among different groups is almost inevitable. even if you selected 2 groups totally randomly, statistical differences would likely emerge between the two groups. Its practically bound to happen, and not always in a way that supports your narriative. for example this other study I was reading broke down each crime individually and when looking at larceny it found that although whites were least likely to be sentenced to jail time, they were sentenced for the longest periods of time. and there were other interesting and inconsistent disparities. I'm still in the process of looking over that study though but its called "sentencing in federal courts, does race matter?"
as your study points out the more factors that are taken into account the narrower the sentancing gap becomes with prior criminal history of the defendant and severity of the crime accounting for most of the disparity. as well as socio economic status of the defendant and type of attorney used which were accounted for. But there are other factors such as whether or not a plea deal was reached which did not seem to be accounted for in many of the data looked at by your source.
If the sentencing disparity between blacks and whites is due to discrimination against blacks, then do you think that the sentencing disparity between men and women is due to systemic discrimination against men? Your out of the blue complaining about misogyny makes me think you dont but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
There is no law on the books saying men or blacks should receive higher sentences. I'm open to the idea that maybe there shouldn't be so much room for discretionary sentencing and I'm open to the idea that there may be racist judges whose biases affect their duties but so far I'm not convinced that the judicial system is racist.
I'm still looking over your study, its very long but those are my concerns thus far. I will keep looking into the sentencing disparity, I appreciate you taking the time to link that study.
Edited by BANANA.MAN (07/15/20 04:09 PM)
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,319
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 37 minutes, 23 seconds
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: BANANA.MAN] 1
#26828762 - 07/17/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BANANA.MAN said:
If the sentencing disparity between blacks and whites is due to discrimination against blacks, then do you think that the sentencing disparity between men and women is due to systemic discrimination against men? Your out of the blue complaining about misogyny makes me think you dont but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Yes, I'm done googling for others but I do believe sentencing structure between male/female is also skewed. Would need someone to look up a study, but the eyeball test on sentences handed out to teachers who have molested a single student (not talking serial predator, though they may be) Is an obvious example of sentencing disparity, but on the flip side, light sentences for male rapists/sexual offenders who are affluent (Brock Holt I believe his name is) show the system is pretty mysoginistic, dismissing or minimizing Women's claims.
Also there is the whole affluent vs poor(a good study controls for those factor via a variety of methods, sometimes these methods are inappropriate to the study, thus understanding the research methods and tools (usually takes a lot of schooling, Master's or Higher or a serious commitment to self learning) can make wading through academic studies impossible to the lay person.
This get's into reporting on Academic studies. The reporter is not an expert in the field, but has some knowledge. These types of articles on academic articles run the gamut from innocuous to outright harmful, with the reporter drawing conclusions that the study does not support. As they say "Alittle knowledge is a dangerous thing"
Yes, I opened my entrance into this thread very provocatively, and my argument style has often been summed as arrogant, pugnacious, trolling, ham-fisted and out right rude. This is who I am when I have a discussion (you should see an argument), but I rarely get people bringing actual research, accredited and from tier 1/2 journals to my discussions. Instead I get responses that employ logical fallacies, or attempts to engage in sophistry. It is this reason I argue so pugnaciously, I tend to ignore the arguments of sophists, I outright stop responding to people I believe are arguing in bad faith.
TL;DR Got a problem with the way i "discuss" serious topics on a drug forum, well I don't have time for that noise, so fuck off
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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pirate-blues



Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,695
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: Ice9] 4
#26828828 - 07/17/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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All lives won't matter until black lives matter.
And the data says that they don't. Forget all the issues, forget all the semantics, black people die at higher rates, are incarcerated at higher rates, and live in far higher poverty.
Medical experts even believe that black women who lived through the Jim Crow era are more prone to severe breast cancer as a result of living through so much emotional stress. I am sure that there are other instances of this medically as well.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/jim-crow-breast-cancer-black-women/
Apparently black people are also less likely to trust medical professionals, and before anyone goes a'googlin' and points this out - the medical system has committed some real fucking atrocities in this last century against marginalized people and black folks were at the top of the list. It's almost like there's this thing called cause and effect that has far reaching consequences and ripples that can last years!!!!/s (okay, sorry, I'm digressing.)
https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/unwanted-sterilization-and-eugenics-programs-in-the-united-states/
There are tons of oppressed people in this country. Yes men have to deal with certain things women don't(child custody, toxic masculinity causing lots of mental distress and issues, higher suicide, etc.), yes women have to deal with shit that men tend to not go through, people in poverty get their own shit end of the stick navigating through a system that just sees them as another disposable pleb, felons are stuck fighting against an entire machine that is working to profit off of their imprisonment and making bank on recidivism. There's a lot of injustice. A lot of it effects white people and men. Everyone is fighting a battle. We have to start fighting for each other if we want to make any real progress. I can care about black lives without being black, I can care about more than one thing at once(omg!!), but this is not about that. This is about black lives. And I stand by what I say when I say that all lives won't and certainly don't matter until black lives matter. It's fucking 2020 this shit has gone on long enough, I'm done with this bullshit. Black lives matter and fuck anyone who says otherwise or tries to breed division through semantics.
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,319
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 37 minutes, 23 seconds
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Quote:
pirate-blues said: All lives won't matter until black lives matter.
And the data says that they don't. Forget all the issues, forget all the semantics, black people die at higher rates, are incarcerated at higher rates, and live in far higher poverty.
Medical experts even believe that black women who lived through the Jim Crow era are more prone to severe breast cancer as a result of living through so much emotional stress. I am sure that there are other instances of this medically as well.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/jim-crow-breast-cancer-black-women/
Apparently black people are also less likely to trust medical professionals, and before anyone goes a'googlin' and points this out - the medical system has committed some real fucking atrocities in this last century against marginalized people and black folks were at the top of the list. It's almost like there's this thing called cause and effect that has far reaching consequences and ripples that can last years!!!!/s (okay, sorry, I'm digressing.)
https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/unwanted-sterilization-and-eugenics-programs-in-the-united-states/
There are tons of oppressed people in this country. Yes men have to deal with certain things women don't(child custody, toxic masculinity causing lots of mental distress and issues, higher suicide, etc.), yes women have to deal with shit that men tend to not go through, people in poverty get their own shit end of the stick navigating through a system that just sees them as another disposable pleb, felons are stuck fighting against an entire machine that is working to profit off of their imprisonment and making bank on recidivism. There's a lot of injustice. A lot of it effects white people and men. Everyone is fighting a battle. We have to start fighting for each other if we want to make any real progress. I can care about black lives without being black, I can care about more than one thing at once(omg!!), but this is not about that. This is about black lives. And I stand by what I say when I say that all lives won't and certainly don't matter until black lives matter. It's fucking 2020 this shit has gone on long enough, I'm done with this bullshit. Black lives matter and fuck anyone who says otherwise or tries to breed division through semantics.

-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Distorted Vision
The best. Of the worst.



Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 4,292
Loc: Indiana
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Re: Black Lives Matter. [Re: Ice9]
#26828950 - 07/17/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
"Yo yo just here to spread my clit and show ya'll what a wonderful and free being we are all inside lets take the acid and turn inside into the outside come on over baby lets smell the roses ohh ohh come on we're about to get lit show my undies to your baby I'll hug it down three times go around frown come on we aint a nice clown kiss me upside down down down come on sorry if you cant handle my wokeness come on lets take her panties off write shroomery on my asshole and taste it lick it make if feel like we was 1978 come on baby lets do the locamotion"-Twig dude
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 16 hours, 25 minutes
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Quote:
pirate-blues said: All lives won't matter until black lives matter.
And the data says that they don't. Forget all the issues, forget all the semantics, black people die at higher rates, are incarcerated at higher rates, and live in far higher poverty.
Medical experts even believe that black women who lived through the Jim Crow era are more prone to severe breast cancer as a result of living through so much emotional stress. I am sure that there are other instances of this medically as well.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/jim-crow-breast-cancer-black-women/
Apparently black people are also less likely to trust medical professionals, and before anyone goes a'googlin' and points this out - the medical system has committed some real fucking atrocities in this last century against marginalized people and black folks were at the top of the list. It's almost like there's this thing called cause and effect that has far reaching consequences and ripples that can last years!!!!/s (okay, sorry, I'm digressing.)
https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/unwanted-sterilization-and-eugenics-programs-in-the-united-states/
There are tons of oppressed people in this country. Yes men have to deal with certain things women don't(child custody, toxic masculinity causing lots of mental distress and issues, higher suicide, etc.), yes women have to deal with shit that men tend to not go through, people in poverty get their own shit end of the stick navigating through a system that just sees them as another disposable pleb, felons are stuck fighting against an entire machine that is working to profit off of their imprisonment and making bank on recidivism. There's a lot of injustice. A lot of it effects white people and men. Everyone is fighting a battle. We have to start fighting for each other if we want to make any real progress. I can care about black lives without being black, I can care about more than one thing at once(omg!!), but this is not about that. This is about black lives. And I stand by what I say when I say that all lives won't and certainly don't matter until black lives matter. It's fucking 2020 this shit has gone on long enough, I'm done with this bullshit. Black lives matter and fuck anyone who says otherwise or tries to breed division through semantics.

Really, the lives of impoverished people living in third world countries don't matter until you're satisfied with the first world living conditions of African Americans and their perceived injustices in the US?
I'm sorry, but you're now losing complete perspective of the battles humans face on a daily basis based on pure emotion instead of rational thought. There's always going to be some form of injustices regardless of the environment, getting hysterical and putting the injustices of a particular demographic over many others because it's the popular thing to do today doesn't serve any decent purpose in my opinion.
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