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OfflineRaoulDuke79
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 21
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
In the trenches, challenging experiences of late.
    #26828112 - 07/17/20 02:15 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hi all and thanks for having a read, I am at a loss and feel i'ts time to reach out.

So here is my, well I wouldn't call it a problem but it is becoming somewhat taxing.
Bit of a background, Im 41, good heath with exception of slight elevated blood pressure and reflux which I take meds for, use cannabis regularly for pain management. I usually fast for 4-6hrs before any experience and eat once the peak is over if feeling hungry.

Ive been growing and using mushrooms in a social setting with friends for some 20 years, taken countless trips over that time and tho I have had my fair share of difficult experiences its few and far between.
In fact if it were not for the mushroom when my life fell apart in my late 20's and I was heading down a very dark path. The mushroom gave me the perspective to work my problems out.

These days a difficult trip just means I work a little harder but I always find some merit or artefact to take away from the experience.

As life has gone on I have become a family man, living the so called dream, my opportunities to trip with friends have almost all but disappeared so my only option is to trip at home.
I am fully aware of set and setting and feel comfortable in my home, I have to psych myself up to trip of late due to the difficulties im having.

I have also in my older age became interested in the idea of closed eye dark room experiences romanticised by figures like Terence Mckenna of which I have only glimpsed at while in social setting trips.

My issue is that lately the trips have been extremely challenging, the onset is fine, the visuals start to crank up and the double layering starts, the euphoria comes on, all seems good then it begins, the feeling of being pulled apart mentally, anxiety ebbs and flows and probably the part that freaks me out the most and causes me to panic, rapid hot and cold flushes.

Is this the onset of "ego death" ?
Am I subconsciously fighting it and this is the horrible feelings I am getting?

I have done a trip with friends in-between to rule out any physiological factors and it was grate as always, 6g of cubes to start and 3g an hour later.

These have been low doses (3.5g) by my usual standard, it isn't uncommon for me to take 6-10g of cubes in a social setting and hold my self together. I usually powder them and gel cap them for ease of ingestion but of late and the trips that have been challenging I have just finely chopped the mushrooms like I would cannabis but I can't see how this is the problem.

Am I not taking enough?

My last dose was a week ago, as crazy as it sounds I want to try again even though it felt like being in the trenches, I fell if I keep pushing though I will overcome it all.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: RaoulDuke79]
    #26828233 - 07/17/20 05:38 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

abandon mckenna

keep the trip gentle and be not so hard on your self.

with higher doses you need more space to move around, although it is just as likely you cannot move at all.

learn to appreciate mental contents whatever they are - no judgement. continue your good work alone.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineSocrateshroom
сталкер


Registered: 09/05/18
Posts: 1,840
Loc: Westworld
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: RaoulDuke79]
    #26828339 - 07/17/20 07:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with everything above except

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
abandon Mckenna





One of the great quotes, in reference to this, from Mckenna is

"One of the great things about these psychedelic teachers is that they are so gentle with beginners. And then the flip side of that coin is they are so unforgiving with veterans.”

This might just have to do with statistical probability. A veteran will have had many more experiences than the novice and thus has had more opportunities to reach a bad trip.

It seems you have a higher natural tolerance if you can take 6g and chill in a social setting. At 3g and above, so long as the cubes aren't weak, I get floored and don't move for at least a few hours (not that I can't but it's tedious to).

I would say take the dose that fulfills what you want. If 6g isn't transporting you to another realm, maybe take a bit more. Or, if you haven't tried 6g alone yet, and it has been your standard, try it out.


Quote:

RaoulDuke79 said:
My issue is that lately the trips have been extremely challenging, the onset is fine, the visuals start to crank up and the double layering starts, the euphoria comes on, all seems good then it begins, the feeling of being pulled apart mentally, anxiety ebbs and flows and probably the part that freaks me out the most and causes me to panic, rapid hot and cold flushes.





Seems normal to me. I feel all of that on 3g+. I go from hot to cold like a hundred times during the start of the peak before my body decides to relax. The start of being ripped apart mentally feels like when the trip really gets going. Then I feel like I've gone mad (and for some reason I enjoy this).

And of course, a few times these feelings have freaked me out or made it uncomfortable. For me, it's important to let go as soon as I start to feel it. I do some breath work and chant as soon as I down the dose. I continue this until I feel even the slightest change. Then I get into my bed, put the music on, and let go.

Keep at it, you may have hit a bump in the road, but you'll get back on course. I look forward to the day that I have as much courage as you in my trips :cheers:


--------------------


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OfflineLosTresOjos
Humano
I'm a teapot
Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26828607 - 07/17/20 10:05 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Look McKenna said that and it's true. When it comes to these things I have found McKenna to be correct more often than not.

  There was a thread late last week with this same problem. I have this same problem. Many have this issue. Don't feel like it's an uncommon situation. I've been reading, writing on this issue here on the shroomery and although I dont feel ready for the experience I'm ready to dive in. If that makes any sense.


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OfflineDJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer
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Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: RaoulDuke79]
    #26828645 - 07/17/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I can empathise with you here, sir. I’ve been tripping with mushrooms on and off for 33 years; I’m now 53! But same thing has happened to me this year. So much so, I’d describe my pre-trip anxiety as at newbie levels! In fact I’ve been shocked.

I haven’t worked out what is causing it either. I have been tending towards the unprecedented lockdown affecting everybody’s “set”.

With you though, brother, it sounds more like a dose thing. Have you considered tht with so much experience with the mushrooms, you actually need far less these days to get to 6g levels?

As redgreenvines and Socrateshroom allude, try a smaller dose, see where that takes you. 4 years ago I took over 9g of liberty caps (semilanceata) and had an amazing trip; 9g is almost 3x a heroic dose. These days I’m scared sh1tless from under 3g cubensis!

Take care
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Offlinenoodles-uk
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Registered: 10/08/16
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: RaoulDuke79] * 1
    #26828667 - 07/17/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Is there some learning you need to take from the trips and apply to your life? Are you integrating the experiences properly?

:shrug:


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Offlinenoodles-uk
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Registered: 10/08/16
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: RaoulDuke79] * 1
    #26828706 - 07/17/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RaoulDuke79 said:


"As life has gone on I have become a family man, living the so called dream....."



Maybe there's nothing to it but I'm drawn to this phrase for some reason


Edited by noodles-uk (07/17/20 12:07 PM)


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OfflineLosTresOjos
Humano
I'm a teapot
Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: noodles-uk]
    #26828725 - 07/17/20 11:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I was gonna take a dip tonight on 7g. But as alluded by dj I don't think I will need that. I'm going with the simple 5g. I plan on laying out and listening to music. Something I haven't done in a while. The last handful of trips have been in silent darkness. I'm going to put on some tunes this time. I'm excited but nervous as hell at this point in the morning. I gotta lot to do when I get home too. Clean up, wash up.

Edit, I haven't taken a test dose of the harvest so onto uncharted water I will go.


Edited by LosTresOjos (07/17/20 11:08 AM)


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Offlinedlj403
Stranger

Registered: 07/16/18
Posts: 95
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26829259 - 07/17/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

EVERYTHING is hard right now.  Getting any sort of positive energy together is just so rough with everything going on in the world.  And that extends to tripping to.  Set and Setting are wildly fucked up right now.

Try and turn it on its head.  Try and see it as an escape from this fucked up world.  Maybe that will help.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
Humano
I'm a teapot
Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: dlj403]
    #26829286 - 07/17/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I've always seen it as a vacation from it all. Whether it was blissful or challenging I have always walked away feeling good.


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OfflineEnkidu
"No-Such-Person"
Male

Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26829460 - 07/17/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe its the change in setting

Going from recreational with friends to alone

Maybe you arent use to facing whatever it is youre starting to face

You gotta learn to let go and accept what happens. Only way to overcome it. Let it wash over you while trying to remain unmoved

Usually our feelings are for a reason and serve a purpose

What exactly is your reason for tripping?

Ive had quite a stretch of tough times before too


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: RaoulDuke79]
    #26829803 - 07/17/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RaoulDuke79 said:


My issue is that lately the trips have been extremely challenging, the onset is fine, the visuals start to crank up and the double layering starts, the euphoria comes on, all seems good then it begins, the feeling of being pulled apart mentally, anxiety ebbs and flows and probably the part that freaks me out the most and causes me to panic, rapid hot and cold flushes.

Is this the onset of "ego death" ?
Am I subconsciously fighting it and this is the horrible feelings I am getting?






Yeah, that's the way it goes - when the mental pull begins you really have to just let it be and relax into it.  That's where the really cool stuff happens.  The rest is just place-keeping IME. :shrug:

But there's no right or wrong way to do them - if you like them socially that's fine, if you like them solo that's also fine.  But definitely it's deeper territory if there's nobody else around to reinforce the social matrix once you start to leave it. :cookiemonster:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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Offlinepeyotillo
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Registered: 07/19/14
Posts: 176
Loc: Yurp
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26829827 - 07/17/20 09:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Raoul I've been having the same problems as well. I'm almost sure that the body adapts to psilocybin and tries to "fight" it, and by doing that you get effects like creeping anxiety or the chills and then intense panic out of nowhere.
I could never control my mind, or just "let go". Even the act of letting go entails that there is a conscious observer that let's go, and it is not true for me.
I don't know anything anymore when the trip hits hard, I don't have the same landmarks or conceptual understanding when I am on a 5g dose, and if I get through some rough shit, I am forced through it, I'm not a willing participant that can let go.
Kudos to those who can let go though, this is not an option that I ever had on high doses (above 3.5g and on).
Btw those chills sound like a panic attack to me


--------------------
Far above the Moon, planet Earth is blue and there's nothing i can do


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OfflineRaoulDuke79
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 21
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: peyotillo]
    #26829900 - 07/17/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Firstly thank you to everyone who replied, I feel as a weight has been lifted, I'm not alone, im not going crazy, the mushrooms have not abandoned me, I have not lost them as teachers...yet. Im sort of stunned so many have the same issue, its obviously not going to kill me.

Ive been reflecting and thinking over the past week since the experience and reading the replies I can relate to quite a few of the points being made, some until I read them didn't think them to correlate.

I have been backing off my doses, these have been 3g-4g dried or in a tea, i didn't see the need just yet to delve into 8g introspective trips....... just yet.
When tripping with friends I always seem to need more, its not even an ego thing, I think its more there is so much going in a social setting that 3g and below is just drowned out.


probably the last question I have to ask is can you pass out on mushrooms?

I know it sounds dumb but I ask as I have never nor seen anyone pass out because of a dose of mushrooms, when I am feeling my worse and I feel drained in all aspects it feels like I could just collapse, maybe I should, let the drug wash over me, but all instinct is to panic and fight?

I am trying to decide if I should try again tonight, I've been thinking about it for the last few days, im either a glutton for punishment or curiosity for what lies behind the veil is just too grate.


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OfflineAzure Essence
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: peyotillo]
    #26829912 - 07/17/20 11:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but have you considered.... NOT taking mushrooms?

Is there anything wrong with taking time off and getting some perspective and experiences to nourish the psychedelic experience when you finally come back?

It sounds like you're trying to over do it and force an experience.

I have taken years off at various points in my life, up to 5 years at one point because I did not feel like I was in a great place to take them. Before that at one point, I think I took like 2 years off because I couldn't find any.

And you know what? Coming BACK to them after a long break always had the best, most positive experiences. When trips start to get difficult, it's usually because you're not bringing anything new to the experiences.

Just take a break man.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26829938 - 07/17/20 11:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah theres that too

Maybe it would be good to try to integrate the experiences a d what happen, assess other areas of life

But the feeling to go back would make me go back personally

Like you know what they can do for you ans you cant stop until you get it sorta thing?

Ive had that with experiences where i was like fuck, i dont feel better the way i did the first 20 times, this is just difficult

Maybe also taking a smaller dose would give you an experience that isnt overwhelming and remind you mushrooms are good

Either way, i think you just need to learn to recognize when the spiral starts and instead of exacerbating it take a breath, calm down, try to relax, and remind yourself of a few things

Ive never passed out but ive wanted to once. And if i was ever going to pass out that would be the time. I did a tea on an empty stomach with 200g fresh and it fucked me up in the worst way


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: Enkidu]
    #26829959 - 07/17/20 11:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I would say that you can pass out “mentally” but I am not sure you can physically pass out :cookiemonster:

Someone will correct me.........

DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineRaoulDuke79
Psychonaut


Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 21
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26829963 - 07/17/20 11:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
Yeah theres that too

Maybe it would be good to try to integrate the experiences a d what happen, assess other areas of life

But the feeling to go back would make me go back personally

Like you know what they can do for you ans you cant stop until you get it sorta thing?






pretty much, its hard to explain, more a feeling of unfinished business, like I should have let it happen. LOL reminds me of miners, spent all month and nothing but can't walk away from the claim because they might be just one pick axe away from becoming rich.


Quote:

Azure Essence said:
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but have you considered.... NOT taking mushrooms?

Is there anything wrong with taking time off and getting some perspective and experiences to nourish the psychedelic experience when you finally come back?

It sounds like you're trying to over do it and force an experience.






last big trip was 12 months ago, before that it was the same difficulties 4-5 times, the trip 12 months ago was the social one with friends.
This was the 1st time since then and it happening again, defiantly not over doing it.


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OfflineAzure Essence
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: RaoulDuke79]
    #26830008 - 07/18/20 12:20 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

LOL, so you've had about 6 difficult experiences in a row and you just keep coming back?

What that quote that floats around the internet, something like, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Take off more time. 12 months is nothing. Consider that you may never trip again, or only have difficult experiences.

I don't know why you're so eager to keep going back.


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Offlinepeyotillo
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Registered: 07/19/14
Posts: 176
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Re: In the trenches, challenging experiences of late. [Re: Azure Essence]
    #26830012 - 07/18/20 12:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It sounds to me like you jumped to conclusions without even taking the time to ask me how often I tripped.
Thanks

Later edit: I do apologise to Azure if his reply was not to what I have said, but I looked at his post and it looked like it was


--------------------
Far above the Moon, planet Earth is blue and there's nothing i can do


Edited by peyotillo (07/18/20 12:28 AM)


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