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Celestialexplorer1
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#26827236 - 07/16/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you for that post ferather. I didn’t know about that, I’m pretty new to all this and there’s no telling how long it would have taken me to find this out since I’m in the process of starting some outdoor and indoor grows.
Can I ask what type of fertilizer you use. I’ve been doing research on fertilizers effects on mushrooms and actually just got some, micro-life
-------------------- To spend just one moment in eternity
Edited by Celestialexplorer1 (07/16/20 03:41 PM)
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Bobbit
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#26828193 - 07/17/20 04:40 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: There's not so much on the lemon tek and citric acid specifically, however try this (the reaction).
Link 1, Link 2, Link 3. Google Search: psilocybin dephosphorylation
Dude, there are quite a few newer papers on extraction, and it appears that most Psilocybe species produce phosphatases which is why the generally agreed method of preservation is to dry as quickly as possible. Any aqueous solution H2O, ethanol, acetic acid, etc. all pull the present phosphatases also, making them less stable due to dephosphorylation to psilocin, which is very easily oxidised. . .
This is the main reason I asked to to back up your claim, as if it were as easy as adding citric acid to both dephosphorylate psilocybin and make psilocin a more stable salt (psilocin citrate), would be ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. . .
It still seems that non-aqueous methanol extract to separate actives from phosphatases Is potentially the most likely pathway. . . Would love to be proved wrong. . .
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Adas
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Bobbit]
#26828221 - 07/17/20 05:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Keep in mind that certain solvents and pH ranges can render certain enzymes inactive (change their tertiary structure making them useless). So it's likely true for the phosphatase as well, we just don't know what exactly, but IMO it's safe to say that low pH or concentrated alcohols inactivate it on contact.
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BU4O
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Adas]
#26828238 - 07/17/20 05:43 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So my vodka with all the dried libs and allenii from 2019 is useless, I am so so unhappy right now
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Adas
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: BU4O]
#26828239 - 07/17/20 05:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ehm... Quite the opposite actually
But you should try anyway, I could be wrong.
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BU4O
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Adas]
#26828326 - 07/17/20 07:09 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I did leave it in cold dry place away from light so it can extract more... I have plenty of dry mushrooms various kinds so I did want to store them that way...
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Ferather
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: BU4O]
#26828459 - 07/17/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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@Bobbit, no you are correct, I did say in my original post about the normal-better method, with alcohol. @Celestialexplorer1, checkout my "Growing Mushrooms" post in my journal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2256&v=y7mdAS7KlRw
Edited by Ferather (07/17/20 09:05 AM)
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anon1978
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#26830064 - 07/18/20 01:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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@Ferather What do you mean when you say ‘inhibitory materials’?
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Bobbit
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Adas]
#26830237 - 07/18/20 06:16 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
BU4O said: So my vodka with all the dried libs and allenii from 2019 is useless, I am so so unhappy right now
Remains to be seen. . . Testing is in order. . .
Quote:
Adas said: Keep in mind that certain solvents and pH ranges can render certain enzymes inactive (change their tertiary structure making them useless). So it's likely true for the phosphatase as well, we just don't know what exactly, but IMO it's safe to say that low pH or concentrated alcohols inactivate it on contact.
Many phosphatases are alkaline so lowering pH isn’t necessarily a positive. . . Phosphatases seem to often have denaturation temps of 85+°C also, and become more active at temps above room temp and heat denaturing will kill psilicybin before the phosphatases. . .
That is why I was hassling Ferather for real info on psilocin citrate (or any salt that is stable) so the phosphatases are not an issue as psilocyn has no phosphate group. As long as there is a stable salt, it may be extractable. . .
Some of the early research suggests that acidic (acetic) extracts seem to accelerate dephosphorylation, resulting in no actives. . .
I wish I had paid more attention in Bio and Chem. . .
And should prolly end up back on topic. . .
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Ferather
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Bobbit] 1
#26830299 - 07/18/20 07:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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@Bobbit, your body will dephosphorylate psilocybin into psilocyn, at this point is can pass into the bloodstream and brain barrier. The lemon tek, makes the psilocybin more susceptible to dephosphorylation (like stomach acid), speeds it up.
It can only speed up the conversion process, not increase potency (total amount).
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Extraction Procedures: http://www.pbso.org/qualtrax/QTDocuments/1968.PDF
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@anon1978, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0964830512002843 Various materials-chemicals in wood are anti-fungal and can inhibit growth.
Good examples are fresh pine wood, or cedar wood.
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Bobbit
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather]
#26831051 - 07/18/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your links speculate where in the body this happens, yes. . . Not looking to ‘strengthen’. . .
Internal dephosphorylation doesn’t really help with extractions though
It would be really nice to be able to have a stable solution containing actives for microdosing. . .
This is why I’m keen to keep asking the questions though there are many looking and no-one really finding consistent results. . .
As cool as it would be to have a dose in a few drops, just being stable in solution is enough. . .
For now it seems that anhydrous methanol will pull all the SillySimon, and ignore the phosphatases. . . The only consistent ‘easy’ tek for the kitchen chemist. . . I’m thinking trying this then evaping all the methanol, then adding ethanol for tincture. . .
Maybe adding a peptidase to eat the enzymes?
This convo appears periodically, yet peters out before anything concrete lands. . .
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Adas
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Bobbit]
#26831078 - 07/18/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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The only ways to avoid oxidation is:
1. Restrict access to Oxygen 2. Put enough antioxidant into the solution (Vitamin C)
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Bobbit
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Adas]
#26831308 - 07/18/20 06:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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3. Create a stable salt that doesn't oxidise readily . . .
If such a salt exists. . .
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Adas
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Bobbit]
#26831917 - 07/19/20 04:23 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think the salt form matters when it comes to oxidation. I highly doubt that such a salt exists (unless the acid has some reducing power, like ascorbic acid).
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Ferather
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Adas] 1
#26832649 - 07/19/20 02:40 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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@Bobbit, The lemon tek is not an extraction method, and certainly would not be employed to do so. It's meant to speed up conversion, prior to use (its pretty much used instantly).
Like adding conversion accelerant to water then mushrooms.
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Digging deep, psilocin-citrate is probs false.
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Celestialexplorer1
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Ferather] 1
#26832825 - 07/19/20 04:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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White spots of myc turning blue after I tried to emulate a cold snap. After that it started to come through a lot more. Still no primordia in sight.
-------------------- To spend just one moment in eternity
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Bobbit
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Adas]
#26833231 - 07/19/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: @Bobbit, The lemon tek is not an extraction method, and certainly would not be employed to do so. It's meant to speed up conversion, prior to use (its pretty much used instantly).
Like adding conversion accelerant to water then mushrooms.
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Digging deep, psilocin-citrate is probs false.
I understand why peeps use lemon. . . Because . . . If there was a stable salt, that would be one step in the process of extraction, though I suspect that the isn't with any of the obvious acid/bases used for extracts. . .
Quote:
Adas said: I don't think the salt form matters when it comes to oxidation. I highly doubt that such a salt exists (unless the acid has some reducing power, like ascorbic acid).
I thought different salts were more stable than others. . . Some being more susceptible than others to oxidation? NaCl for example is pretty stable in air. . . Hydrophilic yet stable in the presence of O2. . .
I should have paid more attention in chemistry for sure. . .
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Adas
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Bobbit]
#26833537 - 07/20/20 02:53 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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NaCl is a highly stable inorganic salt, lol. Has nothing to do with organic salts. In salts of alkaloids, the alkaloid cation is like the sodium and the acid anion is like the chloride. Doesn't really matter what anion is the alkaloid surrounded by, if it's susceptible to oxidation, it always will be.
Acids can stabilize things like hydrogen peroxide but that's a different thing.
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Celestialexplorer1
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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Adas]
#26833785 - 07/20/20 07:57 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So I think like most people who when they get started with woodlovers and exotics think or about or attempt cult indoors. I’ve seen some decent grows indoors as well. A lot say it’s very difficult, time Consuming and next to impossible. But I’ve had this idea in my head ever since I saw the refrigerator tek awhile back. I’ve seen tons of DIY mini drives as well. So put two and two together.
My idea which is already under way is
1 semiconductor thermoelectric refrigeration unit. 1 power supply with cord 1 thermo control panel
I have all this and it wasn’t expensive $70 or someone could harvest these from an old mini fridge So I make a box out of plexiglass and insulation with a compartment for the hardware. I also make a plexiglass lid with latch and weather strip to seal it. I put a light a foot or so above 6500k. I make a chamber on the bottom that holds water and put two of those small disc fogger a in it since cold air doesn’t hold humidity but in 45-60 f the fogger s should do fine at filling up the whole unit. The problem I see is air exchange. I’m making this thing right now wether you like it or not lol. This post will probably get brushed off as pipe smoke but I’m in it for the long haul. Just curious if there is anyone out there with skills relating that might shed some insight into how I could get some proper air exchange without having to scrap the semiconductor and do an evaporative fan instead. Anybody Love to the people.
-------------------- To spend just one moment in eternity
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Ferather
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@Celestialexplorer1, any setup intended to grow King oyster indoors with regulated temperatures will work, it will be triggers with other species. Stick with the plant pot method, you can simulate heavy rain simply by overwatering it, and let the excess drain.
Fruiting requirements (nutrients-temp-humidity-oxygen) > triggers.
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