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OfflineMycoWill
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Spray dryers
    #26823615 - 07/14/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Anyone on here have any experience with spray dryers? I'm interested in producing mushroom extract powder from hot water and dual extractions. From what I've seen so far, this is the only way to remove the water from the water/polysaccaride solution, is this correct? The quotes I've gotten so far are in the 20k+ range. I was hoping to get something for under 4k, has anyone seen something closer to the price?  Are there any other methods to reduce an extract solution down to a powder?


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Invisibleredeyesmj
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: MycoWill]
    #26823762 - 07/14/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I want to get a freeze dryer to do the final drying of mushroom extracts.  Will probably need a way to reduce the volume of liquid from initial extraction to make the freeze drying more efficient.  My initial thoughts are to reduce volume under vacuum so less heat has to be applied.  My ideas are more for small scale production so may not be as viable.


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[/url]
“To be godless is probably the first step to innocence," he said, "to lose the sense of sin and subordination, the false grief for things supposed to be lost."
So by innocence you mean not an absence of experience, but an absence of illusions."
An absence of need for illusions," he said. "A love of and respect for what is right before your eyes.”― Anne Rice, The Vampire Lestat


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: redeyesmj]
    #26824648 - 07/15/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Is there a benefit to using a freeze dryer vs a spray dryer?


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Invisibleredeyesmj
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: MycoWill]
    #26824703 - 07/15/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Its cheaper than a spray dryer and I can use it for other things like food storage and making astronaut ice cream...lol


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Where am I at?


[/url]
“To be godless is probably the first step to innocence," he said, "to lose the sense of sin and subordination, the false grief for things supposed to be lost."
So by innocence you mean not an absence of experience, but an absence of illusions."
An absence of need for illusions," he said. "A love of and respect for what is right before your eyes.”― Anne Rice, The Vampire Lestat


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: redeyesmj]
    #26825462 - 07/15/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redeyesmj said:
I want to get a freeze dryer to do the final drying of mushroom extracts.  Will probably need a way to reduce the volume of liquid from initial extraction to make the freeze drying more efficient.  My initial thoughts are to reduce volume under vacuum so less heat has to be applied.  My ideas are more for small scale production so may not be as viable.




Why are you worried about heat?


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: Forrester]
    #26826154 - 07/16/20 12:02 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

redeyesmj said:
I want to get a freeze dryer to do the final drying of mushroom extracts.  Will probably need a way to reduce the volume of liquid from initial extraction to make the freeze drying more efficient.  My initial thoughts are to reduce volume under vacuum so less heat has to be applied.  My ideas are more for small scale production so may not be as viable.




Why are you worried about heat?





At what temperatures would one have to worry about degradation of beta glucans and terpenes?


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Invisibleredeyesmj
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: MycoWill]
    #26826527 - 07/16/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MycoWill said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

redeyesmj said:
I want to get a freeze dryer to do the final drying of mushroom extracts.  Will probably need a way to reduce the volume of liquid from initial extraction to make the freeze drying more efficient.  My initial thoughts are to reduce volume under vacuum so less heat has to be applied.  My ideas are more for small scale production so may not be as viable.




Why are you worried about heat?





At what temperatures would one have to worry about degradation of beta glucans and terpenes?




I don't think heating extracts is detrimental to the major components of say reishi.  In fact I have a bunch of reishi in a crockpot with water right now.  But I would also like to make some "raw" extracts without adding heat to keep all the different components unadulterated.  Like the enzimes and other more fragile terpenes/ glucans, More specifically with cordyceps.  And too be completely honest I don't know if that will make a better extract or not. 

I have been thinking about using enzimes to break down cell walls and then inactivate the enzymes, reduce the liquid that now contains the actives under vacuum to a point its efficient to freeze dry remaining liquid out.


--------------------
Where am I at?


[/url]
“To be godless is probably the first step to innocence," he said, "to lose the sense of sin and subordination, the false grief for things supposed to be lost."
So by innocence you mean not an absence of experience, but an absence of illusions."
An absence of need for illusions," he said. "A love of and respect for what is right before your eyes.”― Anne Rice, The Vampire Lestat


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: redeyesmj]
    #26827371 - 07/16/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MycoWill said:
At what temperatures would one have to worry about degradation of beta glucans and terpenes?




Much hotter than boiling from what I've read in a few sources.

Quote:

redeyesmj said:
But I would also like to make some "raw" extracts without adding heat to keep all the different components unadulterated.  Like the enzimes and other more fragile terpenes/ glucans, More specifically with cordyceps.  And too be completely honest I don't know if that will make a better extract or not.




Yeah I get it, maybe there is something to it and it will be a bit better, who knows? 

If you have a way to do that under vacuum I say go for it!  If only there were a feasible way to test whether it was any better or not, that would be cool...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: Forrester]
    #26827996 - 07/16/20 11:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

MycoWill said:
At what temperatures would one have to worry about degradation of beta glucans and terpenes?




Much hotter than boiling from what I've read in a few sources.

Quote:

redeyesmj said:
But I would also like to make some "raw" extracts without adding heat to keep all the different components unadulterated.  Like the enzimes and other more fragile terpenes/ glucans, More specifically with cordyceps.  And too be completely honest I don't know if that will make a better extract or not.




Yeah I get it, maybe there is something to it and it will be a bit better, who knows? 

If you have a way to do that under vacuum I say go for it!  If only there were a feasible way to test whether it was any better or not, that would be cool...





Beta glucan tests are pretty affordable, I've seen in the $120-150 range. I know some terpene tests aren't too bad, reishi is one I believe but erinacines and hericinones can't be easily tested for. Any idea on cordycepin?


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Invisibleredeyesmj
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: MycoWill]
    #26828288 - 07/17/20 06:44 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705815001964?via%3Dihub



Cordycepin is pretty stable but adenosine gets degradation by heat


--------------------
Where am I at?


[/url]
“To be godless is probably the first step to innocence," he said, "to lose the sense of sin and subordination, the false grief for things supposed to be lost."
So by innocence you mean not an absence of experience, but an absence of illusions."
An absence of need for illusions," he said. "A love of and respect for what is right before your eyes.”― Anne Rice, The Vampire Lestat


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OfflineMycoWill
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Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Spray dryers [Re: redeyesmj]
    #26843462 - 07/24/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Have you attempted to use a freeze dryer for the extraction of a powder in a solution before? Do you have a link to anyone using this method? Think it would work with an alcohol extraction as well?

Looking at freeze dryers, it looks very attractive if it works. They're about 1/4 of the price of a spray dryer, it seems everything I've read mentions using a spray dryer though.


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Invisibleredeyesmj
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: MycoWill]
    #26844165 - 07/25/20 08:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I don't own a freeze dryer,
Using a freeze dryer will work better on water than alcohol since the feeze point of alcohol is so low.

If your trying to go to full scale then a spray dryer would probably be a better bet.  But if your just fucking around like I do a freeze dryer is cheaper and has more uses outside of making mushroom extract powders.

I looked up the costs of spray dryers and yeah they are pretty damn pricey.  I even checking used equipment sights


--------------------
Where am I at?


[/url]
“To be godless is probably the first step to innocence," he said, "to lose the sense of sin and subordination, the false grief for things supposed to be lost."
So by innocence you mean not an absence of experience, but an absence of illusions."
An absence of need for illusions," he said. "A love of and respect for what is right before your eyes.”― Anne Rice, The Vampire Lestat


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OfflineMycoWill
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Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Spray dryers [Re: redeyesmj]
    #26850944 - 07/28/20 11:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Digging around I found a few interesting ideas of cheap diy options.

These guys rigged up a "spray dryer" out of a tube and heat gun but because they done have a cyclone separator they scorched their product. I wonder how one could get around that...





And this guy basically reduced his solution then put it in a dehydrator.




And this appeared to be the best Imo, similar idea as the first one but a better execution.



Any thoughts or suggestions out there? Especially from anyone that's used a spray dryer or has an intimate knowledge on how they work.

I was thinking a tall tube with a high pressure misting nozzle on the top connected to a pressure washer instead of a paint gun to give you a finer mist.


Edited by MycoWill (07/28/20 11:45 PM)


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Offlineathos56
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Re: Spray dryers [Re: MycoWill]
    #26851685 - 07/29/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I bet if you used 50g drums welded together the apparatus in the last video wouldn't be too hard to make. I'd wrap it in rock wool. Finally, if I was to try this I'd have ports on the side linked to fans. Angle the ports to direct the flow in a circular pattern to create a vortex to increase the fall time of the droplets. Maybe rig it up so that the heat come in those ports too... IDK if that would work any better but that's where my garage engineering mind went.


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