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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Iraq WMD-OMETER
    #2682039 - 05/15/04 01:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

381 days....still no WMD...


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Xlea321]
    #2682394 - 05/15/04 03:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

(President Bush has his men combing the desert)




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Mp3 of the month: The Remaining Few - Painted Air



Edited by Learyfan (05/15/04 08:52 PM)


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Learyfan]
    #2682626 - 05/15/04 03:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

oh we found plenty of shit
a big steaming pile of bullshit coming from people desperately trying to find some other way to justify the murder of thousands of innocent people.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2685067 - 05/16/04 02:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just out of curiosity, what justified Hussein's murder of hundreds of thousands of people? What justification did the UN and the rest of the world have for letting that happen?

Would it have been better for the world to have sat on its hands and let him continue -- the Rwanda "solution", I mean.

pinky


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Phred]
    #2685145 - 05/16/04 03:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

what about all the other murderous gov'ts that are much worse than ssaddam but dont sit on oil?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2685157 - 05/16/04 03:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You seem to be refering to Paul Wolfowitz statement that war with Iraq was necessary becuase it was "floating on a bed of oil". What he meant was that because of Iraq's oil income it was impossible to pressure them through other means. That is one of the reasons the Bush Admin treats North Korea differently (the other is that it is too late to do anything about them).
The presence of oil makes sanctions and other forms of pressure work less because the nation is more self sufficient.
And by the way, you still haven't named a US supported government that is worse than Iraq. Pakistan and Uzhbekistan have nothing on Iraq.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Phred]
    #2685904 - 05/16/04 10:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Just out of curiosity, what justified Hussein's murder of hundreds of thousands of people? What justification did the UN and the rest of the world have for letting that happen?

Would it have been better for the world to have sat on its hands and let him continue -- the Rwanda "solution", I mean.

pinky




Bush Sr. justified the murder of those people. If you're going to blame Saddam(and I do), then you'll have to blame Bush Sr. as well.






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Mp3 of the month: The Remaining Few - Painted Air



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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Phred]
    #2685931 - 05/16/04 11:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I find it somewhat ironic that when clinton helped stop an actual full on genocide in kosovo every conservative on earth bitched and whined "it's just a distraction, why are we there?" But when bush leads us into iraq originally based on reasons that aren't even real then conservatives act like we had to do something for those poor iraqis. He gassed his own people! twenty years ago when the u.s. supported him. You see the whole "liberals bitch about everything bush does, but when a liberal is in office he can do no wrong" idea that i hear conservatives throw around works both ways, at least as far as foreign policy is concerned.

Fact: The reason america got involved in iraq was because, according to Bush, saddam had WMD's and was an "iminent threat"...we go to war, find nothing, and the administration changes the reason we went to war to 'liberation' while 600 americans are dead and counting. I have a problem with this.

Well it turns out that the whole iminent threat thing was just a lie, so now the reason is we had to help the iraqi people! What a bunch of bullshit, you can't just change the reason we went to war half way through the war. At least when clinton dragged our country into kosovo he gave us the reason (stopping a massive genocide) and then stuck with it The only iminent threat saddam posed was to bush sr. pride..



And as far as uzbeckistan goes...The "president" of the country has been known to boil people alive in oil. Want me to dig up a photo of him and Bush shaking hands and being buddies? If i had a scanner i'd throw one up right now.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2686193 - 05/16/04 01:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JonnyOnTheSpot said:
I find it somewhat ironic that when clinton helped stop an actual full on genocide in kosovo every conservative on earth bitched and whined "it's just a distraction, why are we there?" But when bush leads us into iraq originally based on reasons that aren't even real then conservatives act like we had to do something for those poor iraqis. He gassed his own people! twenty years ago when the u.s. supported him. You see the whole "liberals bitch about everything bush does, but when a liberal is in office he can do no wrong" idea that i hear conservatives throw around works both ways, at least as far as foreign policy is concerned.

Fact: The reason america got involved in iraq was because, according to Bush, saddam had WMD's and was an "iminent threat"...we go to war, find nothing, and the administration changes the reason we went to war to 'liberation' while 600 americans are dead and counting. I have a problem with this.

Well it turns out that the whole iminent threat thing was just a lie, so now the reason is we had to help the iraqi people! What a bunch of bullshit, you can't just change the reason we went to war half way through the war. At least when clinton dragged our country into kosovo he gave us the reason (stopping a massive genocide) and then stuck with it The only iminent threat saddam posed was to bush sr. pride..



And as far as uzbeckistan goes...The "president" of the country has been known to boil people alive in oil. Want me to dig up a photo of him and Bush shaking hands and being buddies? If i had a scanner i'd throw one up right now.




Saddam Hussein killed around 1 million of his own people. Milosevich killed 10,000. All this shows is that deposing genocidal leaders only works when it is politicaly correct to do so (or if it effects Europe).


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Phred]
    #2686218 - 05/16/04 01:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Just out of curiosity, what justified Hussein's murder of hundreds of thousands of people? What justification did the UN and the rest of the world have for letting that happen?



Simple. He was our ally at the time.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Phred]
    #2686345 - 05/16/04 02:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Just out of curiosity, what justified Hussein's murder of hundreds of thousands of people? What justification did the UN and the rest of the world have for letting that happen?

Would it have been better for the world to have sat on its hands and let him continue -- the Rwanda "solution", I mean.





What has this got to do with anything? Thats not why we went to war. If it was we would be planning to go and sort out Kyrgztan, North Korea and Zimbabwe now.

We went to war to search for wmd which we knew didnt exist, according to top US sources in 2002. We were told the lie that we had to protect ourselves. You were one of the suckers who believed that load of old bull werent you? The idea of liberating the Iraqi people came much later when it was clear that there really wasnt enough wmds in Iraq to even loosely justify the crap they were spouting.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2686354 - 05/16/04 02:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Saddam Hussein killed around 1 million of his own people. Milosevich killed 10,000. All this shows is that deposing genocidal leaders only works when it is politicaly correct to do so (or if it effects Europe).




Sanctions caused the deaths of at least 500,000 children in Iraq. Does that makes us twice as good as Saddam or half as bad?


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2686527 - 05/16/04 03:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well the point i was trying to make was that in the beggining the administration was talking about WMD's as a legitimate reason to go to war, most conservatives agreed and there was never talk of going to war to liberate the iraqis. Then as it became clear there weren't going to be any wmd's the bush administration sort of tryed to change the reason we went to war, acting like we had been there all along as a liberating force instead of as a nation launching a pre-emptive strike against a possible future threat...again, most conservatives took up the same position as the bush administration.

This thread was started about WMD's and seemed to drift from that huge embarressing issue to 'how bad saddam was' I remember the early days of the war and the days before the war when not a single conservative was worried about the iraqi people, all they were worried about was the 'iminent threat' saddam posed to us. No one wanted to wait to find out if he had weapons because a smoking gun could be 'in the form of a mushroom cloud'

Well that non-sense is over and everyone pretends we went there to liberate. But the funny thing is, is that a couple conservatives that post here who support the war have claimed we should just nuke the whole middle east. What reason could they have to now support the war? wmd's? no...helping the iraqi people? obviously not if they want to nuke the arabs...So what is it then? Could it be just because our republican president is responsible for this war? I don't understand it. I'm not even sure those couple of people i'm referring to understand why they support the iraq war.

Enough ranting i suppose, but the reason for the war changed to avoid a international embarresment and alot of people don't seem to mind.


As far as saddam killing 'almost a millon of his own people goes' I'm not sure where you got that number from but i'd like to know. Are you counting the people that died from the sanctions that were imposed? Or are you talking about the genocide of the kurds? Even Human Rights Watch has set the number of dead at 50,000 to 100,000. And the CIA isn't even sure that the genocide even happened.

here's a good long, unbiased article about it.
claims of saddam's genocide far from proven


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: GazzBut]
    #2686573 - 05/16/04 03:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

Saddam Hussein killed around 1 million of his own people. Milosevich killed 10,000. All this shows is that deposing genocidal leaders only works when it is politicaly correct to do so (or if it effects Europe).




Sanctions caused the deaths of at least 500,000 children in Iraq. Does that makes us twice as good as Saddam or half as bad?




The sanctions only killed people because the Iraqi regime took the oil for food money to build palaces and weapons programs instead of using it for food. The UN allowed them to take large kickbacks at the expense of their own populace. That is NOT our fault.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2686579 - 05/16/04 03:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Saddam was building palaces before the sanctions, too. All the sanctions did was hurt the Iraqi people while doing nothing to Saddam.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: GazzBut]
    #2686654 - 05/16/04 03:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Sanctions caused the deaths of at least 500,000 children in Iraq. Does that makes us twice as good as Saddam or half as bad?




Who ended those sanctions?


Is this man now your hero?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: silversoul7]
    #2688684 - 05/16/04 10:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Saddam was building palaces before the sanctions, too. All the sanctions did was hurt the Iraqi people while doing nothing to Saddam.




The blame falls on Saddam being an asshole to his people, not us. We were trying to protect world stability by containing and trying to disarm a very dangerous man.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2688726 - 05/16/04 10:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Which is why 83% of Iraqis polled want us out - NOW!


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2689761 - 05/17/04 02:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The sanctions only killed people because the Iraqi regime took the oil for food money to build palaces and weapons programs instead of using it for food. The UN allowed them to take large kickbacks at the expense of their own populace. That is NOT our fault.

Source?

The guys who were actually running the oil for food programme said this: "Hans von Sponeck, former UN humanitarian coordinator for Iraq, argued in January 2001 that the Iraqi government distributes more than 90 percent of available supplies each month".


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Iraq WMD-OMETER [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2689948 - 05/17/04 03:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Who ended those sanctions?


Is this man now your hero?




Yeah cos the world is that simple!


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