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OfflineInfraredRick
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Ass handed to me * 6
    #26819218 - 07/12/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I recently posted a bunch of anti-Trump stuff here in this Political Discussion area of Shroomery. I was called out to provide proof of my arguments. And I wasn't very effective at that. I was mad at first but realized the others were correct. I'm still disgusted with Trump but appreciate the "truth police" for ensuring a member's position is supported by facts. Hard to write this but those guys are correct.


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Inspiration move me brightly.[gradient:#C7C7D4,#CFD4C7]y[/gradient]


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: InfraredRick] * 1
    #26820058 - 07/12/20 07:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That's hard to do, so :toast:

Welcome to future good discussions here in the political forum.  You'll soon learn who the die-hard make believers are.  :smirk:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: InfraredRick] * 1
    #26821429 - 07/13/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yep there are some clever cookies here, I play catch up all the time. It also helps with my TDS, 'cause I got it bad! (I blame my tv)

:ewaahh:


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #26821618 - 07/13/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You got off easy, my TV gave me AIDS.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: InfraredRick]
    #26826097 - 07/15/20 10:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

if only people would be more open minded.  The hardest thing to do in life can be to admit you were wrong and accept the consequences.

Cheers


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: meltdowner]
    #26826168 - 07/16/20 12:27 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Trump does a lot of stupid shit, even the majority of his supporters agree, but he's done SO much right the media refuses to ever run stories on. It's hard to get it right with Trump. Religious pastors of the past only read certain portions of the bible to create their ideology and it wasn't until the people got their hands on the book themselves that they started going, "wait a minute... this is bullshit. This is not at ALL what it says when you read it in its full context."

So it is with the media and Trump in modern times. You really have to dig. They don't make it easy.

And speaking of the media, the other thing we usually all agree on as Trump supporters is we love watching them, Hollywood, and the most corrupt politicians collectively squirm. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if the most evil and corrupt institutions in America all collectively hate you, you gotta be doing something right.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/16/20 12:27 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26826495 - 07/16/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Can you list 5 things he's done right?


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26826689 - 07/16/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I could copy and paste a list of 200 things, but I'm going to take a different route as many of them have A: been temporarily negated by coronavirus because they were economy related or B: people will say it was just the aftermath of Obama. (If you want a list that big, just google "Trump Accomplishments.") The truth is, unemployment was at a historic low before March, 400,000 manufacturing jobs had been created in our nation, and more blacks and women were employed (including in political positions) than ever before. Our economy was BOOMING.

Also, I'm sure things like lower taxes, tightening national security (the wall) and circumventing the CDC (as of yesterday) are not "accomplishments" to everyone and setbacks to some. (Not me. I'm glad for all of these things.) So I'll go ahead and list 5 things we can all agree one.

#1: Have you seen the drone footage floating around in the last day or two of Chinese authorities gathering up Uyghur Muslims in their country, binding them and blindfolding them and marching them away? Reddit suck's China's tit so people were complaining the video kept getting taken down on their site. Of course China doesn't want the world to know about this. You know what Trump signed into law a few months ago that the media didn't highlight or recognize at all? Now you know.

#2: Executive Order Combating Human Trafficking This is just one of many steps the Trump administration has taken to combat human trafficking as I pointed out in another thread, more arrests have occurred under Trump's administration than any president before him, ever. (13,500 arrests so far in 3 years and counting.) Here is a link to the full archive and here is another link to its parent site, which has some AWESOME documents one can dig through

#3: Unprecedented relations with North Korea. An easing of tensions. Meditating in such a way that allowed the leaders of SK and NK to meet peacefully and step into each other's land.

#4: Trump is working on the opioid crisis in a major way. 6 billion secured to assist with this. As much as I love psychedelics and weed, I've seen non-controlled illegal opioids destroy lives.

#5: Trade deals. There have been too many to list. This was Trump's major talking point for years and years before he ran for president. How the nation is always getting ripped off by other nations and how we do too many things for free. Just as one example, we were funding the W.H.O. at more than 3x the rate China was despite having 1/5 their population. No longer, however. You could google tons of the trade deals Trump has worked on to make sure America isn't getting ripped off.

He's also taking steps to prevent online censorship (so important), to advance international religious freedom and freedom of speech, and has said on more than one occasions that he plans to tackle big pharma next and get drug prices down. He also said in one speech I had listened to that that would already be done if so much time hadn't been wasted by the dems trying to impeach him. The dems have done everything in their power to NOT cooperate with Trump even when it's a good idea. The Dems have let the nation suffer just to get back at Trump.


As a bonus and to prove this point about the dems, here's a clip of Jimmy Dore explaining how Trump just tried to get the troops out of Afghanistan but the DEMS BLOCKED Him. (Uh.... WHY!?)



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Edited by Vahn421 (07/16/20 10:29 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26826731 - 07/16/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

1. Trump doesn't get credit for acts of Congress.  Sorry.
2. That EO is only a few months old. It's hard to argue it's had much effect yet.  As to other things, 13k arrests over three years is a drop in the bucket in comparison to the arrests at state level.  Federal criminal prosecution isn't really a significant percentage of prosecutions anyway.
3. Yes, he was wooed by NK's leader while NK developed nukes.  That is unprecedented.  Calling that a "good thing" is pretty absurd, though.
4. Yeah, dude...death penalty for drug dealers is a good idea:rolleyes:
5. As far as trade, he's done nothing right.  He's done everything he can to destroy trade.  I can't even begin to guess why you think he's done well on trade.

Jimmy Dore is a comic/conspiracy nutter.  Using him as a source isn't going to really win you any credibility except with Falcon


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26826771 - 07/16/20 11:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

1. You might be right on this one. I don't know how much involvement the president has aside from approving or veto-ing the law. I would assume it depends on the act being passed. At the very least, there was clearly no veto and it passed quickly.

2. Trump has been quite vocal about stopping child trafficking since he has been office. I'm quite certain his influence on the matter stretches further than we realize. Operation Underground Railroad works directly with the white house from time to time, as one example.

3. Trump did the woo-ing, he wasn't wooed. We're making progress. These things take time.

4. Not every drug is made equal. Some give us life, some destroy it. The opioid crisis is very real.

5. I don't know how you can say this, either.

Lastly, Jimmy Dore is the man. Joe Rogan, who has had 1,000 different people on his podcast, endorsed Jimmy Dore as one of the most politically aware men in America. (Comics usually are, ironically.)


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26826785 - 07/16/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Rogan is an idiot.


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“I must not fear.
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Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26826792 - 07/16/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Rogan is an idiot.




He'd be the first to admit it!


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InvisibleGuy1980
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26826804 - 07/16/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
3. Trump did the woo-ing, he wasn't wooed. We're making progress. These things take time.





https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-demolishes-liaison-office-as-tensions-rise/ar-BB15y2jn

"On Friday, North Korea said it was pulling away from its relationship with the U.S. two years after a historic handshake between Trump and Kim Jong Un in Singapore and nearly a year after Trump took an unprecedented step onto North Korean soil, saying there had been no actual improvement in ties."


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Guy1980] * 1
    #26826824 - 07/16/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Trump told the Chinese he was fine if they wanted to build concentration camps for the Uighurs. He said it was the right thing to do. He also refused to sanction them about the Uighurs because he didn’t want to blow up his trade deal that still hasn’t materialized

It’s funny trump wants to run on the economy and China. His two biggest failures.

How’s that Foxconn factory in Wisconsin working out? another trump boondoggle.


Edited by koods (07/16/20 11:38 AM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Guy1980]
    #26826827 - 07/16/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Guy1980 said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
3. Trump did the woo-ing, he wasn't wooed. We're making progress. These things take time.





https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-demolishes-liaison-office-as-tensions-rise/ar-BB15y2jn

"On Friday, North Korea said it was pulling away from its relationship with the U.S. two years after a historic handshake between Trump and Kim Jong Un in Singapore and nearly a year after Trump took an unprecedented step onto North Korean soil, saying there had been no actual improvement in ties."




Well that's a shame, but then there's this.

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1307689/trump-wants-another-north-korea-summit-only-if-progress-is-likely-pompeo

They're still trying.

I am saddened to learn of these setbacks. I had not heard of them.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26826831 - 07/16/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Trump told the Chinese he was fine if they wanted to build concentration camps for the Uighurs. He said it was the right thing to do. He also refused to sanction them about the Uighurs because he didn’t want to blow up his trade deal that still hasn’t materialized




That is hearsay out of one book where one man claims Trump said that. Every media outlet decided it was good enough to report on. (Dishonest.)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26826840 - 07/16/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That's not any more hearsay than anything else posted here.  If we're going down the hearsay rabbit hole, we should at least acknowledge that every time anyone posts an article, video, or anything that isn't from the poster's personal knowledge, that's hearsay.



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Offlinekoods
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: koods]
    #26826852 - 07/16/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

3. Trump did the woo-ing, he wasn't wooed. We're making progress. These things take time.




North Korea has been trying to get a meeting with a US president for decades. Trump was the first one to give in.

We’re not making progresss. We’re letting N.Korea build more nukes and missiles.h


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: koods] * 1
    #26826887 - 07/16/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

North Korea has been trying to get a meeting with a US president for decades Trump was the first one to give in.





"Give in?"

I find that absurd.


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26826943 - 07/16/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

No, literally the plan has been to hold out on NK until they agree to come to the table with some reasonable level of willingness to negotiate. What Trump has done is gone to the table basically to stoke his ego, and now NK is saying that they aren’t interested in speaking with the US. They turned the tables on Trump. NK also officially called trump a “dotard” which is absolutely hilarious, because it’s true.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: christopera]
    #26826975 - 07/16/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Our state of affairs, when a two bit fake god is right.:facepalm:


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26826978 - 07/16/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This is my biggest problem with Trump.  I can overlook most of his stupidity with respect to policy because we've had enough republican Presidents to know what we're getting in that regard.  The major issue is that Trump has made the country look like bumbling fools on a global stage.  That is going to have long-term detrimental effects to the nation.

The most important job a President has is being the frontman for our nation.  Right now, our frontman is a marginally literate compulsive liar who thinks ratings are more important than anything else.  The U.S. is now the world's reality TV show.





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Offlineqman
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26826994 - 07/16/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Trump has been a failure with trade. The statistics tell the truth.

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-china-trade-deficit-causes-effects-and-solutions-3306277

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

The trade deficit has been a fucking disaster.  It INCREASED under Trump!!! :huxleyfacepalm:


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: christopera]
    #26826997 - 07/16/20 01:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

No, literally the plan has been to hold out on NK until they agree to come to the table with some reasonable level of willingness to negotiate.




Source, please. In all my life I've never heard this. And even if it's true, I'm going to have to find out WHOSE plan it was.


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26827017 - 07/16/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

As Koods said, NK has been ignored by US presidents for decades. All you have to do is look at the long list of presidents that didn’t visit NK. It’s a fact. Trump deviated as he was the first ever face to face meeting with NK. Missile production and testing of course has resumed. So what has been gained? Nothing, the dude got played, or at a minimum he got to stroke his ego.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/12/875539237/2-years-after-singapore-summit-u-s-north-korea-relations-back-to-square-1


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: christopera]
    #26827020 - 07/16/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Also, NK calling Trump a dotard directly after a meeting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50682235


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: christopera]
    #26827021 - 07/16/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Also, NK calling Trump a dotard directly after a meeting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50682235




The article itself self it was *before* the meeting back when they were still flinging shit at each other.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26827025 - 07/16/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

As Koods said, NK has been ignored by US presidents for decades. All you have to do is look at the long list of presidents that didn’t visit NK.




This is such a ridiculous spin on the NK situation unless you can give me a source to prove it is true.

Meeting countries to form diplomatic relations should always be at the top of our list. Ignoring them doesn't solve anything.


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26827027 - 07/16/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

They called him a dotard twice. They first called him that in 2017.

I provided a source. You are just going to have to admit that Trump is the only president in decades to meet with NK. You can tell by the way that it is.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: christopera]
    #26827030 - 07/16/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You said Trump had unprecedented relations in NK, you are right, but that’s because they think he’s a dotard.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: christopera]
    #26827034 - 07/16/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

North Korea also just blew up the neutral meeting point between them and SK. Those tensions are so easy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/16/asia/north-korea-explosion-intl-hnk/index.html


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: christopera]
    #26827137 - 07/16/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I got a feeling Kim Jong isn't behind any of this and he's just a puppet. The smile on Kim's face when he was meeting with both Trump and Moon Jae-in was real. Almost relieved. He's likely inherited a dynasty he has no control over.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26827161 - 07/16/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Does it matter?


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: christopera]
    #26827274 - 07/16/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I think it would make a world of difference. I think the game being played is bigger than we realize, and I don't think for a minute trying to meet to the DPRK was bad thing.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26827645 - 07/16/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The facts (not the theories) show that Trump was played the fool. NK continues to play games and build nuclear weapons, Trump simply stood there and smiled.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26827946 - 07/16/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Jimmy Dore is a comic/conspiracy nutter.  Using him as a source isn't going to really win you any credibility except with Falcon



You have to understand, over 10 years ago Jimmy Dore said he didn't buy the official 9/11 story, so Enlil thinks that makes him a conspiracy theorist.  Meanwhile the NY Times got debunked many times on this forum during the Trump Presidency, but that doesn't count because they were only printing what their unnamed sources were giving them.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26827958 - 07/16/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The media is the biggest enemy of the people and has been since WW1.  Rough topic to get into.  Believe what YOU wantnto believe, not what others say.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26828219 - 07/17/20 05:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Trump has no idea Trump thought he was going to get a Nobel Peace Prize. He got played by a two bit dictator
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Jimmy Dore is a comic/conspiracy nutter.  Using him as a source isn't going to really win you any credibility except with Falcon



You have to understand, over 10 years ago Jimmy Dore said he didn't buy the official 9/11 story, so Enlil thinks that makes him a conspiracy theorist.  Meanwhile the NY Times got debunked many times on this forum during the Trump Presidency, but that doesn't count because they were only printing what their unnamed sources were giving them.




Jimmy Dore made a living by being a conspiracy theorist.  Maybe now his current shtick is telling the truth. IDK. I don't care because I can't stomach listening to the guy or his show. 

IMO being a former conspiracy theorist is like being a former pedophile. Oh, it's OK because you're not doing it anymore?


I want to add that when I attack conspiracy theorists, I mean no offense against our friend and loyal poster, Logical Chaos. IMO he is into conspiracy theory the way some people really enjoy reading science fiction, or whatever. He's not trying  to influence national opinion on politics.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26828736 - 07/17/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Jimmy Dore made a living by being a comedian.  Then he got a gig with The Young Turks.

CNN described his show as "a far-left YouTube channel that peddles conspiracy theories, such as the idea that Syrian chemical weapons attacks are hoaxes".  Of course, we now know that a fourth OPCW investigator came out and called the CNN (and other mainstream channels) Assad chemical attack story bullshit.  I realize you probably hate Jimmy Dore because he keeps being proven right about things the mainstream media lies about, but maybe you should take a lesson from it and drop your subscription to the NY Times, rather than getting angry at the guy for being right.  :shrug:


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26828789 - 07/17/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Jimmy Dore made a living by being a comedian.  Then he got a gig with The Young Turks.

CNN described his show as "a far-left YouTube channel that peddles conspiracy theories, such as the idea that Syrian chemical weapons attacks are hoaxes".  Of course, we now know that a fourth OPCW investigator came out and called the CNN (and other mainstream channels) Assad chemical attack story bullshit.  I realize you probably hate Jimmy Dore because he keeps being proven right about things the mainstream media lies about, but maybe you should take a lesson from it and drop your subscription to the NY Times, rather than getting angry at the guy for being right.  :shrug:




The fact that Dore nailed the Russiagate nonsense has people like Brian bent out of shape with him. 

The fact of the matter is Dore should have lots of credibility for reporting the real facts on Russiagate and ultimately being proven correct, but some people can't admit they were wrong.

In fact, if people listened closely, CNN, MSNBC and others did admit to just speculating on Russiagate after it all fell apart.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: qman]
    #26828800 - 07/17/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The fact that Dore nailed the Russiagate nonsense has people like Brian bent out of shape with him. 

The fact of the matter is Dore should have lots of credibility for reporting the real facts on Russiagate and ultimately being proven correct, but some people can't admit they were wrong.

In fact, if people listened closely, CNN, MSNBC and others did admit to just speculating on Russiagate after it all fell apart.



EXACTLY.  :whathesaid:

The people that hate Jimmy Dore most are the ones he's proven wrong.


--------------------
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26829556 - 07/17/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Trump has no idea Trump thought he was going to get a Nobel Peace Prize. He got played by a two bit dictator
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
The fact that Dore nailed the Russiagate nonsense has people like Brian bent out of shape with him. 

The fact of the matter is Dore should have lots of credibility for reporting the real facts on Russiagate and ultimately being proven correct, but some people can't admit they were wrong.

In fact, if people listened closely, CNN, MSNBC and others did admit to just speculating on Russiagate after it all fell apart.



EXACTLY.  :whathesaid:

The people that hate Jimmy Dore most are the ones he's proven wrong.




His disputing the Russiagate allegations have nothing to do with why I don't like Jimmy Dore, and I have no idea why qman made that up. Russiagate is true in the sense that Russia helped trump get elected. Russiagate is unsubstantiated in the sense there is no good evidence that Trump was in on it.

The reasons I don't like Jimmy Dore are that he reminds me of a carnival huckster, he's a political comedian who I don't think is funny, and his show is so low rent that it reminds me of Wayne's World being shot on a public access channel in Wayne's parent's basement in Aurora Illinois. I asked Fal whether the production values on his show were so low because that helped him establish some kind of noncorporate indy cred, but got no answer.

I also can't stand those three sycophants he has on as his panel. They seem like people who failed auditions to be on the Drew Carrey show.

Jimmy Dore may be more effective at uncovering a more accurate interpretation of political issues than other outlets, but I'm not going to watch him. You all attack Liz Warren for being a former republican but are fine with Dore being a former conspiracy theorist.

I think that Kuklinski guy is OK.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26829639 - 07/17/20 07:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
His disputing the Russiagate allegations have nothing to do with why I don't like Jimmy Dore, and I have no idea why qman made that up.



That was my guess too, given the people he proves wrong seem to dislike him most, and use the word "conspiracy theorist" because like me, he questions things without proof.  :shrug:

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Russiagate is true in the sense that Russia helped trump get elected. Russiagate is unsubstantiated in the sense there is no good evidence that Trump was in on it.



Did you already forget that the case against the indicted troll farm was dropped after they decided to defend themselves in court?

Edit:  I HIGHLY suggest you reread the evidence I included in the O.P. I just linked to.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
...his show is so low rent that it reminds me of Wayne's World being shot on a public access channel in Wayne's parent's basement in Aurora Illinois. I asked Fal whether the production values on his show were so low because that helped him establish some kind of noncorporate indy cred, but got no answer.



It's because he speaks out against the rich billionaires that would give him a high budget show, so they won't give it to him.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I also can't stand those three sycophants he has on as his panel. They seem like people who failed auditions to be on the Drew Carrey show.



The ones who pass the Drew Carrey auditions go make the big bucks with Drew Carrey.  The ones he hires are real people who have the same values that me and (I think?) you have.  Stef is his wife.  I've spoken with all of them in person at his shows, which you can't easily do with the big stars.  They're all good people.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Jimmy Dore may be more effective at uncovering a more accurate interpretation of political issues than other outlets, but I'm not going to watch him. You all attack Liz Warren for being a former republican but are fine with Dore being a former conspiracy theorist.



He wasn't a "former conspiracy theorist" unless you believe the fake news.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I think that Kuklinski guy is OK.



Kyle Kulinski is great!  :thumbup:

He and Jimmy Dore talk about the same shit.


--------------------
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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (07/17/20 07:25 PM)


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: qman]
    #26830101 - 07/18/20 02:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Trump has been a failure with trade. The statistics tell the truth.

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-china-trade-deficit-causes-effects-and-solutions-3306277

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

The trade deficit has been a fucking disaster.  It INCREASED under Trump!!! :huxleyfacepalm:




A good sized portion of out trade imbalance is, I think, unavoidable. In many cases we can't compete in manufacturing with low wage countries. Our service base economy does not lend itself to exports to the same extent that manufacturing does. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that our trade imbalance has a high correlation with our transition to a service economy over the last four or so decades.

But yes, Trump's trade war with China hurt us more than it hurt them.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26830110 - 07/18/20 02:52 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
His disputing the Russiagate allegations have nothing to do with why I don't like Jimmy Dore, and I have no idea why qman made that up.



That was my guess too, given the people he proves wrong seem to dislike him most, and use the word "conspiracy theorist" because like me, he questions things without proof.  :shrug:

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Russiagate is true in the sense that Russia helped trump get elected. Russiagate is unsubstantiated in the sense there is no good evidence that Trump was in on it.



Did you already forget that the case against the indicted troll farm was dropped after they decided to defend themselves in court?

Edit:  I HIGHLY suggest you reread the evidence I included in the O.P. I just linked to.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
...his show is so low rent that it reminds me of Wayne's World being shot on a public access channel in Wayne's parent's basement in Aurora Illinois. I asked Fal whether the production values on his show were so low because that helped him establish some kind of noncorporate indy cred, but got no answer.



It's because he speaks out against the rich billionaires that would give him a high budget show, so they won't give it to him.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I also can't stand those three sycophants he has on as his panel. They seem like people who failed auditions to be on the Drew Carrey show.



The ones who pass the Drew Carrey auditions go make the big bucks with Drew Carrey.  The ones he hires are real people who have the same values that me and (I think?) you have.  Stef is his wife.  I've spoken with all of them in person at his shows, which you can't easily do with the big stars.  They're all good people.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Jimmy Dore may be more effective at uncovering a more accurate interpretation of political issues than other outlets, but I'm not going to watch him. You all attack Liz Warren for being a former republican but are fine with Dore being a former conspiracy theorist.



He wasn't a "former conspiracy theorist" unless you believe the fake news.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I think that Kuklinski guy is OK.




1. Jimmy Dore was a former conspiracy theorist. IMO people who listen to him are getting into his conspiracy mind frame, and now think everything else is fake news.

2. That Russia interfered in the 2016 election in Trump's favor is an accepted fact, by analysts, journalists, Democrats and Republicans. To assume that all these  parties are in on some conspiracy reminds me of McCarthyism and believing there was a communist hiding under every rock. 

3. I don't like Jimmy Dore because I think he is a really bad entertainer and I don't like his personality. That's it. I'm not even disputing that he might be good at accuracy, now. Other people think he is and I'm willing, to some extent,  to take  their word for it.  For people to attribute that my motives for not liking him has something to do with his content is absurd. I believe I have watched him about 4 times for a total of 8-10 minutes.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26830137 - 07/18/20 03:42 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
That Russia interfered in the 2016 election in Trump's favor is an accepted fact, by analysts, journalists, Democrats and Republicans. To assume that all these  parties are in on some conspiracy reminds me of McCarthyism and believing there was a communist hiding under every rock.



This actually reminds me a lot more of WMDs in Iraq.  I correctly predicted they wouldn't find any.

I remember everyone saying Trump colluding with Russia was an accepted fact.  Until the Mueller report couldn't find anything to back it up.  Then it was said that Russia interfering in our election was accepted fact, until Concord went to court to defend themselves, and the charges were dropped.

I was so confident this was fake before it was dropped, I made a signature bet that Concord would either win the case or the charges would be dropped.  I won.

How did I know?  I summarized it here, but I'm not sure you read the whole thing.

Do you have evidence they interfered in the election, or just blind faith in our Government, who always pushes for war?


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26830208 - 07/18/20 05:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I don't see any connection between a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee's report that Russia interfered in the 2016 election in Trump's favor, and your statement about our government always pushing for war.

Are you suggesting we are pushing for a war with Russia?

We just moved several warships into the Sea of China. This did not happen without Trump's OK. All I am seeing is a desperate man making a desperate election ploy, with no regard for any other consequences. He can't STFU about it being a Chinese virus. He thinks some sabre rattling there will gain him some votes.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26830275 - 07/18/20 07:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Do you have evidence they interfered in the election, or just blind faith in our Government, who always pushes for war?



As we've gone over many times before, there are two pending criminal cases related tot his.  There isn't going to be a public release of evidence until those cases are resolved.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26830391 - 07/18/20 09:10 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

qman said:
Trump has been a failure with trade. The statistics tell the truth.

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-china-trade-deficit-causes-effects-and-solutions-3306277

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

The trade deficit has been a fucking disaster.  It INCREASED under Trump!!! :huxleyfacepalm:




A good sized portion of out trade imbalance is, I think, unavoidable. In many cases we can't compete in manufacturing with low wage countries. Our service base economy does not lend itself to exports to the same extent that manufacturing does. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that our trade imbalance has a high correlation with our transition to a service economy over the last four or so decades.

But yes, Trump's trade war with China hurt us more than it hurt them.




There wasn't any "trade war" to begin with in my opinion. The trade imbalance is also avoidable, it's just a matter of doing what's needed. BTW, Trump's little tariffs were just a big joke, anyone could see it was just a headline policy and nothing of real economic substance.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26830791 - 07/18/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Do you have evidence they interfered in the election, or just blind faith in our Government



As we've gone over many times before, there are two pending criminal cases related tot his.  There isn't going to be a public release of evidence until those cases are resolved.



Yes we have, and I'll summarize those discussion for those who are new here (PLEASE feel free to add any relevant facts I may have missed):


The first criminal case was against the 'troll farm' (Concord).  This case was never intended to go to court, and when it did I made a signature bet that Concord would either win or the case would be dropped.  It was dropped.

Your rebuttal was something along the lines of "but there were also charges against some of the employees of Concord which are still open!"  So?  If the parent got off, that pretty much vindicates their employees.  I know you would make this argument if our positions were reversed, and anyone with common sense would too, but you're too stubborn to admit you were wrong.


The second criminal case was against the people who allegedly hacked the DNC email.  Though this has been disputed, I'm willing (for the sake of argument) to agree they hacked the server.  Now the question is, who leaked the information to Wikileaks?  There is a lot of evidence showing it wasn't Russia.

What evidence is there that it WAS Russia other than "you just gotta believe what we're told"?  Oh ya, "It's a SECRET Fal!  You just GOTTA believe the Government!"


--------------------
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26830795 - 07/18/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I don't see any connection between a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee's report that Russia interfered in the 2016 election in Trump's favor, and your statement about our government always pushing for war.

Are you suggesting we are pushing for a war with Russia?



Maybe war was was the wrong term with Russia; I should have said conflict/hostility.

Even if you don't see the connection, just ignore that and let's look at the evidence for this case.  Oh ya, there was none so they dropped the charges.  But I'd love to talk about it and see if you have anything other than "I believe whatever I'm told by my Government".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (07/18/20 02:12 PM)


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26830819 - 07/18/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

How do you know it was never intended to go to court? Why did it?

The case wasn't dropped.

The employees haven't been vindicated. Your argument for vindication is based on an unsupported hypothesis that Concord charges were dropped because of a lack of evidence,  which is contradicted by the very motion seeking those charges to be dropped

The second case is against Russian agents.

Other than the above,  you're pretty close to accurate. They won't be making evidence public during a prosecution. That's standard procedure.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26830864 - 07/18/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
How do you know it was never intended to go to court?



Were you expecting Russians to fly to America to face Trial where they would be subject to arrest and confinement?  :flowstone:

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why did it (go to court)?



Because the parent (Concord) knew it was bullshit and volunteered to defend themselves in court.  The Motion To Dismiss even says "On April 11, 2018, Concord voluntarily entered an appearance in this case".

Quote:

Enlil said:
The case wasn't dropped.



Is "dismissed" the correct word?  It was clearly dismissed.  When you can't win an argument, you always go for a semantics victory.

Quote:

Enlil said:
The employees haven't been vindicated.



Not legally, but if the case against the parent was dropped - oops I mean "dismissed", it should be pretty clear to all but the most stubborn that they got nothing on the Concord employees either, who we know will never show up in court.


Quote:

Enlil said:
The second case is against Russian agents.

Other than the above,  you're pretty close to accurate. They won't be making evidence public during a prosecution. That's standard procedure.



The Government 'leaks' evidence when they have nothing, in order to give the people something to believe in.  Do you remember the Mueller Report?  It contained nothing that everyone didn't already know from the leaks.

Again, I have evidence it likely wasn't Russia, you continue to have blind faith in your Government that THIS time, they're not lying to you.


--------------------
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26830893 - 07/18/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

So, if a defendant runs, we should just throw in the towel?

The case wasn't dismissed either.

They clearly explained why they dismissed Concord. A corporation can't be put in jail, and there's no way to enforce a fine in this case. At the same time,  prosecuting the corporation would have given the fugitive defendants a sneak peak at the case. There's no upside and all downside to that.  We've covered this.

If there is so much exculpatory evidence why don't the defendants come to court and prove their innocence?


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26830901 - 07/18/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

When you can't win an argument, you always go for a semantics victory.




LMAO! Man, I'm so used to that around here already. I wish my opposition could read my INTENT more often rather than trying to trap me in my words when I use one that isn't quite right. (No one is perfect.) I never use such dishonest methods when engaging my opposition, because when I find out that they MEANT to say one thing rather than another, I go, "Ok cool THAT'S what you meant" rather than, "See? You clearly don't know what you're talking about." or the classic, "Why did you lie?" :rolleyes:


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/18/20 02:32 PM)


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26830916 - 07/18/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, if a defendant runs, we should just throw in the towel?



No one ran.  It was the opposite.  Concord voluntarily entered an appearance.

Quote:

Enlil said:
The case wasn't dismissed either.

They clearly explained why they dismissed Concord.



Did you just contradict yourself?

Quote:

Enlil said:
A corporation can't be put in jail, and there's no way to enforce a fine in this case. At the same time,  prosecuting the corporation would have given the fugitive defendants a sneak peak at the case. There's no upside and all downside to that.  We've covered this.



So you seriously expect the Russians to show up in a US court?!?

Quote:

Enlil said:
If there is so much exculpatory evidence why don't the defendants come to court and prove their innocence?



Why wouldn't they pay tens of thousands to risk arrest and confinement in the United States?  Hmmmm...


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26830919 - 07/18/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

When you can't win an argument, you always go for a semantics victory.



LMAO! Man, I'm so used to that around here already. I wish my opposition could read my INTENT more often rather than trying to trap me in my words when I use one that isn't quite right. (No one is perfect.) I never use such dishonest methods when engaging my opposition, because when I find out that they MEANT to say one thing rather than another, I go, "Ok cool THAT'S what you meant" rather than, "See? You clearly don't know what you're talking about." or the classic, "Why did you lie?" :rolleyes:



:whathesaid:


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26830920 - 07/18/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't contradict myself. The case wasn't dismissed. Charges against one defendant were. Most of the original case is still pending.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26830936 - 07/18/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Charges against the parent company were dismissed, with the US knowing the Russians would never show up in court later.

Why didn't they dismiss the charges against Concord years ago when Concord voluntarily entered an appearance?

Probably to trick the gullible, hoping people wouldn't notice the dismissal years later.  It wasn't big new anywhere except alternative news.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26830943 - 07/18/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Given that the Government knew the other Russian defendants would never show up in court, the US should have gone all in on Concord when they had a chance to prove themselves right about SOMETHING Russia related.  To say they were hiding the evidence for a later trial that everyone knows will never happen is absurd.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26830983 - 07/18/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Charges against the parent company were dismissed, with the US knowing the Russians would never show up in court later.

Why didn't they dismiss the charges against Concord years ago when Concord voluntarily entered an appearance?

Probably to trick the gullible, hoping people wouldn't notice the dismissal years later.  It wasn't big new anywhere except alternative news.



I have already explained this to you several times. They dismissed the charges against Concord after it became clear that Concord was being used to gather all of the discovery so that the other defendants would have it. As I have said before, that is strategically the smartest move to make because Concord cannot be jailed, nor can fines being enforced against it.

That's the whole reason Concord appeared... to gather information.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26831026 - 07/18/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I have already explained this to you several times. They dismissed the charges against Concord after it became clear that Concord was being used to gather all of the discovery so that the other defendants would have it.  As I have said before, that is strategically the smartest move to make because Concord cannot be jailed, nor can fines being enforced against it.

That's the whole reason Concord appeared... to gather information.



Have discovery for WHAT?  We both know the other defendants were never going to spend tens of thousands just to show up and risk arrest and confinement in the United States.

Finding Concord guilty would have FINALLY given the US SOMETHING against Russia, even if no one went to jail (I doubt anyone really cares about the lowly individuals who worked for Concord and their subsidiary IRA anyway).


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26831044 - 07/18/20 03:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

As I've already said many times, and the motion says, Concord was seeking classified information in discovery. Ultimately, they would have been entitled to that information.  This would have been fine, of course, if there would be some positive outcome, but there wouldn't be because Concord cannot be jailed nor effectively fined.  Instead, all that would have happened would have been the Russians getting classified information and no one ending up in jail.

I don't know how many times I have to say this.  You can read it in the motion.  If/when the individual defendants are apprehended, things will be different.  Until then, it would be terrible policy to just let them off scott free.

None of this is particularly outlandish stuff, though.  Cases get dismissed against small fish all the time because a conviction would require revealing a confidential informant or an undercover officer.  The charges against Concord were a small part of the case, so they dumped those.  You saying "the case was dropped" because a small piece was dismissed is just false.  It's not semantics.  It's you using intentionally misleading language in order to leave the illusion that there isn't a very real and pending criminal case.

As to your nonsense argument about some symbolic value to a conviction against concord, that is exactly the kind of political theatre that should NOT be a motivating factor in a criminal prosecution.  If we get an individual, even one, who is facing real time, we might be able to get information to work that up the chain of command to the real ringleaders.  This isn't a new tactic.  We know Concord was being paid by someone to do what they did.  Who?  Isn't that the real question?  We won't get an answer to that question without having an individual talk.

Besides, you don't find it odd that a foreign corporation with no American assets decided to hire a lawyer to fight a case in America?  You seem to think it would be stupid for the individuals to do so.  Why would the corporation do it?  Might it be so that the Russian government can find the assets used in the investigation through the discovery process?  That seems pretty likely, since that's exactly the discovery they're seeking.



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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26831189 - 07/18/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
As I've already said many times, and the motion says, Concord was seeking classified information in discovery. Ultimately, they would have been entitled to that information.  This would have been fine, of course, if there would be some positive outcome, but there wouldn't be because Concord cannot be jailed nor effectively fined.



You don't think the US FINALLY finding SOMETHING true about Russia-Gate wouldn't be a positive outcome?

Quote:

Enlil said:
Instead, all that would have happened would have been the Russians getting classified information and no one ending up in jail.



Who cares about a few lowly Russian Concord employees going to jail?  The goal is to make Russia look bad.

Quote:

Enlil said:
I don't know how many times I have to say this.  You can read it in the motion.  If/when the individual defendants are apprehended, things will be different.  Until then, it would be terrible policy to just let them off scott free.



We already know they're getting off scott free.  THEY'RE IN RUSSIA.

Quote:

Enlil said:
None of this is particularly outlandish stuff, though.  Cases get dismissed against small fish all the time because a conviction would require revealing a confidential informant or an undercover officer.  The charges against Concord were a small part of the case, so they dumped those.  You saying "the case was dropped" because a small piece was dismissed is just false.  It's not semantics.  It's you using intentionally misleading language in order to leave the illusion that there isn't a very real and pending criminal case.



You're saying the parent company was "small fish" and the lowly employees were the important ones?

Quote:

Enlil said:
As to your nonsense argument about some symbolic value to a conviction against concord, that is exactly the kind of political theatre that should NOT be a motivating factor in a criminal prosecution.  If we get an individual, even one, who is facing real time, we might be able to get information to work that up the chain of command to the real ringleaders.  This isn't a new tactic.  We know Concord was being paid by someone to do what they did.  Who?  Isn't that the real question?



We already know Concord was being paid by clickbait ads.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Besides, you don't find it odd that a foreign corporation with no American assets decided to hire a lawyer to fight a case in America?  You seem to think it would be stupid for the individuals to do so.  Why would the corporation do it?



As you already said, the corporation can't go to jail.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Might it be so that the Russian government can find the assets used in the investigation through the discovery process?  That seems pretty likely, since that's exactly the discovery they're seeking.



Concord is a private company.  They want the evidence against them which is their right.  We preferred to dismiss the case rather than showing we had something against them.  Your dream of the other employees coming to the US to face trial is obviously just that.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26831205 - 07/18/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Says you. They wouldnt be the first foreign nationals apprehended.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26831236 - 07/18/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Keepin' the Russia-Gate dream alive...  :awethumb:

Hoping someday you'll be proven correct, even though the investigation is over.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26831283 - 07/18/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yup...the investigation is over.  The prosecution is in process.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26831656 - 07/18/20 11:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It's over dude.  Nothing's gonna happen.  In the very highly unlikely event that they catch the other Russians, I'll make a signature bet that the case will either get dismissed again, or the other Russians will win.

Again, we've already SEEN the evidence, it's been thoroughly analyzed, and there's nothing there.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26832150 - 07/19/20 08:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Unlike you, I don't pretend to know what I don't know.  I haven't seen the evidence.  If/when it has been presented in court, I'll form my opinion about the innocent/guilt of the people charged.  Until then, they enjoy the presumption of innocence. 

You declaring it "over" or that the case was dropped only tells me that you'll believe any narrative that is pro-Russia.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26832594 - 07/19/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

enjoy the presumption of innocence.




Last I checked, American trials do not assert someone to be guilty until proven innocent.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/19/20 02:01 PM)


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26832610 - 07/19/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That's what i just said.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Vahn421]
    #26833018 - 07/19/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Last I checked, American trials do not assert someone to be guilty until proven innocent.




  If you ever find yourself as a defendant though there will be a prosecutor that believes you are guilty and he will spend the whole trial asserting you are .


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26833057 - 07/19/20 07:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Unlike you, I don't pretend to know what I don't know.  I haven't seen the evidence.



As I told you before:  "we've already SEEN the evidence, it's been thoroughly analyzed, and there's nothing there."  That's how I knew I'd win my bet in the first place, which I did, (even though everyone chickened out from taking it).

The report links to some very detailed data if you're ever interested in seeing the evidence yourself.

Quote:

Enlil said:
If/when it has been presented in court, I'll form my opinion about the innocent/guilt of the people charged.



It never will be presented in court, and I'll make a signature bet on that.  The problem is you'd argue 'never' could be over a billion years from now.  How about a timescale through the end of Trump's presidency?  If it's not presented in court by end of Trump's presidency (whenever that is), I win.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Until then, they enjoy the presumption of innocence.



Exactly.  The Russians are presumed innocent until proven guilty, which is what I've been saying.

Quote:

Enlil said:
You declaring it "over" or that the case was dropped only tells me that you'll believe any narrative that is pro-Russia.



First of all the case WAS dismissed against the PARENT company of everyone indicted, which you keep forgetting.

Second, I believe innocent until proven guilty.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26833061 - 07/19/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This is stupid.  We're going in circles.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26833186 - 07/19/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know.  You agreed innocent until proven guilty by evidence.  That's big progress to me.

Perhaps the part about me trying to get you to look at the evidence is going in circles if you're not interested.


I found this interview from the early 80's (before everyone could watch this kind of thing on the internet) from a former CIA officer who talks about how the CIA lies to the media to push for war and anti-communism (and/or also teams up with them), and who quit the CIA because he felt pushing for war was counterproductive to national security.  It's VERY interesting to anyone who's interested.



Of course, this isn't news to many of us, except those here who put blind faith in our intelligence.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26833286 - 07/19/20 09:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I’m confused now , what does the CIA have to do with it ?


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26833328 - 07/19/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If you watch the video, he talks about how the CIA/intelligence lies to promote war/hostility.

That's what they're clearly doing with Russia.  Just look at the evidence if you don't believe it.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26833348 - 07/19/20 10:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The CIA can't operate on American soil against American citizens.  That video is outdated.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26833364 - 07/19/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If you watch the video, he talks about how the CIA/intelligence lies to promote war/hostility.

That's what they're clearly doing with Russia.  Just look at the evidence if you don't believe it.




  Right but it’s the FBI that charged  Russians  .


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26833371 - 07/19/20 10:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The CIA can't operate on American soil against American citizens.  That video is outdated.



He talks about that.  Watch from 6:10 to 6:48.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26833403 - 07/19/20 10:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Boom, falcon gotta correct the TDS daily around here and then the mental gymnastics start up.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: meltdowner]
    #26833449 - 07/19/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:wink:


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26833751 - 07/20/20 07:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

He quit the CIA before the executive order prohibiting such operations.  Like I said...outdated information.


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil]
    #26834074 - 07/20/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It was already prohibited; hence the testimony to Congress I noted in 6:10 to 6:48 of the video.

Which executive order are you referring to?  :smirk:


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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26835158 - 07/20/20 10:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

No response yet?

The reason for the smiley face in my last post, and for anyone interested, Reagan passed Executive Order 12,333 in 1981, which "allows the CIA, America's chief foreign intelligence gathering entity, to direct domestic counterintelligence, foreign intelligence, covert operations, and law enforcement activity against United States citizens"  (source) if it is for an authorized intelligence purpose, and has senior approval for such collection.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineInfraredRick
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #26842904 - 07/24/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Well, as the OP I'm maybe suppose to point out you fellows hijacked my thread but I don't care. Trump can lick my sweaty butt hole and you guys carry on.


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Inspiration move me brightly.[gradient:#C7C7D4,#CFD4C7]y[/gradient]


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: InfraredRick]
    #26842941 - 07/24/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Trump does make a pretty good round mouth.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: InfraredRick]
    #26843985 - 07/25/20 04:38 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

InfraredRick said:
Well, as the OP I'm maybe suppose to point out you fellows hijacked my thread but I don't care. Trump can lick my sweaty butt hole and you guys carry on.




When I saw your first post in this thread, I took it as sarcasm, but other people took it literally. But I wasn't sure.

After seeing this post I'm pretty sure I was right the first time.

Carry on.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26846242 - 07/26/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

These are two of the top 20 worst things he has done.


#3: Unprecedented relations with North Korea. An easing of tensions. Meditating in such a way that allowed the leaders of SK and NK to meet peacefully and step into each other's land.


Bullshit, he has fueled the fire in NK since election, he praised Kim after he tortured warmbeir and Trump said Kim didn't know bout warmbeir. Trump said kim loved his people and just inherted a bad job. Kim almost got Trump to cease joint military drills with SK meant to stop nuclear war. He gave Kim countless media clips he immediately used as propaganda. They showed Trump saying amazing things about Kim and his people he it up. Trump has been played like a fiddle by Kim more then any president ever has. And where are we now with them?


#4: Trump is working on the opioid crisis in a major way. 6 billion secured to assist with this. As much as I love psychedelics and weed, I've seen non-controlled illegal opioids destroy lives.

This is where I get mad. My dad is sitting next to me right now in agonizing pain because he was injured in LAPD in the 80s after he served it Vietnam and Germany. When Trump declared a "national opioid crisis" My father was told he had to choose between his ptsd/anxiety meds OR his pain meds.

He had to pick the anxiety meds. So a war hero, Ex LAPD officer who had his discs in his neck shattered by gangbangers protecting and serving now has to be in constant pain because there's a huge misunderstanding that cutting these medications down to nothing will help overdose numbers when in reality the more you restrict opioid the more people turn to shady H or pure fent. My mom has panic attacks that are complicated by mitrovalve prolapse, she had been taking .25 mg of Xanax for 20 years and all of the sudden POOF gone.

She's almost 70 btw and my dad is 70. I personally went from going to college every year 2 classes away from graduating and they forced me so low on my ptsd/anxiety meds I couldn't be in class anymore and have been filing for unemployment since. Declaring a national emergency on opiates and benzos has destroyed my whole families lives. I knew a guy from a support group that had very bad post-traumatic stress disorder from two tours in the Middle East. As we were all going down in medications one day we got the news that he had robbed a pharmacy to get the anxiety medication that he needed during his episode. Right before those medications were cut there was no way that guy would ever have robbed a pharmacy but he didn't have the meds he needed anymore and it drove him straight to that.

Scientists actually say that it's causing more deaths and overdoses as stricter laws are put in place because people just turn to street opiates or benzos both of which are often laced with fent


--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26846473 - 07/26/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
These are two of the worst things he has done...



I agree with you on your second point, but your first shows democrats have become the party of perpetual conflict.

Easing of tensions used to be a good thing, until democrats decided it wasn't.

As I pointed out before, the coroner report showed no signs of torture, and Warmbier was released to the US after showing signs of serious health issues.

I'm open to new evidence I haven't seen before, but so far everything's been along the lines of "c'mon Fal, let's make believe bad things about N. Korea!".

I'm NOT saying N. Korea isn't a bad country, I'm saying let's stop the make believe (reread my signature).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (07/26/20 06:06 PM)


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26846482 - 07/26/20 05:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Totally agree with #'s 3 & 4.:thumbup:
Have you ever talked to Dad about kratom (or medical marijuana)?
I know he's ex-cop and all, but tell him you know a 63 year old who uses krat daily for anxiety and pain relief.
It's certainly not as good as prescription meds but it helps a lot better than nothing.:shrug:
Be well brother...:hug: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26846523 - 07/26/20 06:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Just wanted to say that it is totally fucked. It seems your father is victim  of VA policies; so many vets started ODing on the painkiller benzo cocktail  the powers that be made a blanket policy.....which fucked so many people.


Done the whole opiod dance with the VA in the past(they prescibed me fetnyal WITH 10mg oxxys...then placed on methedone).......
...pure hell.  So this knee jerk reaction was an attempt to cover thier ass for over prescribing.

Edit: I second, vinsue. Kratom helped me as well.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (07/26/20 06:06 PM)


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26846907 - 07/26/20 09:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
These are two of the worst things he has done...



I agree with you on your second point, but your first shows democrats have become the party of perpetual conflict.

Easing of tensions used to be a good thing, until democrats decided it wasn't.

As I pointed out before, the coroner report showed no signs of torture, and Warmbier was released to the US after showing signs of serious health issues.

I'm open to new evidence I haven't seen before, but so far everything's been along the lines of "c'mon Fal, let's make believe bad things about N. Korea!".

I'm NOT saying N. Korea isn't a bad country, I'm saying let's stop the make believe (reread my signature).



This isnt the first attempt to try and amke some kind of peace North korea has been knoen to have had brutal concentration camps for decades
Quote:

vinsue said:
Totally agree with #'s 3 & 4.:thumbup:
Have you ever talked to Dad about kratom (or medical marijuana)?
I know he's ex-cop and all, but tell him you know a 63 year old who uses krat daily for anxiety and pain relief.
It's certainly not as good as prescription meds but it helps a lot better than nothing.:shrug:
Be well brother...:hug: . . . :peace:





First thank you very much it kills me to see what this has done to my family but when i was 14 or so i convinced him to try medical cannabis and cannabis has been his saving grace since he was diagnosed terminal given 5 years to live in 06 for toxic chemical damage to the lungs. He's beat so many expectations but the pain is unavoidable with crushed and building discs in the neck. I'm convinced getting him medical cannabis saved his life and have been a life long advocate because of it.  So even though we can't afford much her we always make sure he has it. It helps a little but with that level of pain it barely touches it. Because he has so many stomach problems and is A lot of meds Kratom never worked for him. Always made him nauseaiated more then relieved. It's just horrendous he's in that position but that's how destructive that policy was and still is. Some people genuinely need these medications and the crackdown had doctors saying you should be on this med but the FDA will pull my license.Its sickening to think like you said people see addiction and overdose and have a kneeslap reaction of "if we made laws much stricter it'd lower addiction and death" it's done the exact opposite. Trump used the national opioid crisis to hard hit states like NH and made a blanket ban for votes not once considered how it'd affect legit patients.


Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Just wanted to say that it is totally fucked. It seems your father is victim  of VA policies; so many vets started ODing on the painkiller benzo cocktail  the powers that be made a blanket policy.....which fucked so many people.


Done the whole opiod dance with the VA in the past(they prescibed me fetnyal WITH 10mg oxxys...then placed on methedone).......
...pure hell.  So this knee jerk reaction was an attempt to cover thier ass for over prescribing.

Edit: I second, vinsue. Kratom helped me as well.




Thanks man :hug: yeah interestingly enough that wasn't even through the va it was just Kaiser but like I said they also cut my meds and my mom's meds all at once so it was directed across the board by the FDA because it's a "national crisis". Like you said this was in response to a lot of overdoses but they failed to realize there was just more fentanyl going around and patients that really need it need to be protected . It's a gross misunderstanding of how to combat addiction and it's ruining lives.

I appreciate the understanding from both of you because I feel very abandoned by my country at times especially when it comes to our medical system and this particular issue. Hopefully more people will realize that some people really need medications to live their lives with quality and have injuries and ailments that are being ignored. It's an important issue that doesn't seem to be talked about much and I appreciate at least you guys caring


--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26846971 - 07/26/20 11:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm NOT saying N. Korea isn't a bad country, I'm saying let's stop the make believe.



This isnt the first attempt to try and amke some kind of peace



Correct, Clinton made peace with them.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
North korea has been knoen to have had brutal concentration camps for decades



That's not what I was calling make believe.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: vinsue]
    #26847391 - 07/27/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Totally agree with #'s 3 & 4.:thumbup:
Have you ever talked to Dad about kratom (or medical marijuana)?
I know he's ex-cop and all, but tell him you know a 63 year old who uses krat daily for anxiety and pain relief.
It's certainly not as good as prescription meds but it helps a lot better than nothing.:shrug:
Be well brother...:hug: . . . :peace:




We're the same age. I was guessing it was close.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Offlinenormalperson
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Re: Ass handed to me [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26850193 - 07/28/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

trump hides too many things, lies too often, and takes credit for other people's accomplishments. I will not vote for him.


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