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OfflineOvoidhunter
Buttery Crescent
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Registered: 09/17/16
Posts: 2,016
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Fiery] * 1
    #26822240 - 07/14/20 01:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fiery said:
Instead of debate this here, I'm going to go do something positive with my life.

Like not engage in fruitless conversation. What will come of any of this other than more division?

PLUR , people. :aweyeah::baaaam:





I second this notion.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
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Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Fiery]
    #26822244 - 07/14/20 01:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fiery said:
Instead of debate this here, I'm going to go do something positive with my life.

Like not engage in fruitless conversation. What will come of any of this other than more division?

PLUR , people. :aweyeah::baaaam:



Yeah, PLUR, not disagreeing with Peace, Love, Unity, or Respect. Those principles are all fine.

For me, this debate is something positive in my life. I learn new things when I debate these extremely important topics with other people (so long as it remains civil). Someone in the thread made the claim that black people were, on average, way more likely to commit violent crime than white people. I wanted to know whether or not that was actually true. So, I researched the topic a little bit, and I actually learned something from it (you can read my results above). The primary purpose for my engaging in arguments and debate is to expand my own understanding of the world. I believe debate ought to be exploratory in nature, not combative, and I exercise that belief by remaining civil, avoiding personal attacks, and doing my best to avoid logical fallacies.

I enter arguments with people online with the hopes that I might learn something new, with the hopes that I might gain empathy for someone who's position I previously misunderstood. That new perspective influences my actions in the future, so it isn't just about deepening the divide. I want to understand other people, and I want other people to understand me. I'm all about building bridges, not putting down people who I think are wrong.

In short, I engage in these types of discussion because they're educational for me (though, if other people learn something new along the way, that's great, too).


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Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh
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Registered: 07/12/13
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Amanita86] * 2
    #26822251 - 07/14/20 01:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
So them failing at their job is Trump’s fault..:thatsinteresting:



In this one and only spectuacluarly dumb move yes it is. I'm saying if Donald Trump would've made a nationwide federal plan that didnt leave it up to every dumbass govenerner including democratic ones like Gavin Newsom we wouldn't have to re close because of overwhelming amounts of cases. If he didn't politicize wearing masks less people would be infected and less dead. Critically key issues to healing the nation he refuses for votes. You know how I know he could come up with a plan Nationwide? The actual guidelines the trump admin first came up with saying a state has to see a 14 day drop in infection rates before proceeding to phase 2 of a 4 phase process would have saved countless lives,businesses that have to re close and are permanently forced under financially. He has made wearing a mask and not gathering in packed crowds a political issue, something that the rest of the world never fought about, had debates about.

You can say that liberals are the devil all you want and some might be but this president left it up to some of those devils that are Republican and Democrat in the worst pandemic in over 100 years to choose how each individual state opens and it's fucking obvious it has not worked in the slightest. We do know that across the world where they take the virus seriously, test a lot, wear masks and all are on the same page they've been able to flatten their curves dramatically and don't have to re close the country because morons are arguing about masks. A unified federal response from the president would've eliminated all of this bullshit.


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R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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Offlineviraldrome
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Registered: 09/21/18
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: CookieCrumbs] * 1
    #26822291 - 07/14/20 03:13 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Fwiw I know 2 trans women who are gun owners.

1 for personal protection 1 just because she likes them.

I am not a gun owner.





Off topic if there was a Tranny death wish / Ms. 45 style movie with Bailey Jay as a vigilante shooting gay bashers I would watch it for sure.



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Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD


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Invisiblebudmanman
OTD Masterbater
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Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,974
Loc: PNW
Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26822293 - 07/14/20 03:14 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Dude there are anti mask protesters all over the world it's just not as publicized.

Here is one in Canada for example that I was able to easily find I also seen them in the UK and several other nations.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/protesters-ride-ttc-without-masks-to-call-for-an-end-to-mandatory-face-coverings-in-toronto-1.5013943


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Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26822294 - 07/14/20 03:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Yeah that's something a very narrow minded fox news far right FB meme loyalist would say and do say constantly. It's a bunch of bullshit that Donald Trump made up to discredit liberal citizens of america that don't watch biased orgs like CNN or MSNBC but know Donald Trump is a terrible president. So he says we are evil and that all the bad things that happen under HIS presidency is somehow magically the Democrats faults. I'm not even going to be able to change your mind because you have that conversation blocker of you're just a puppet man of the MSM MAGA!COVID party where 99% of cases are "totally harmless"!! Woop wooo let's all go cough in each other's faces while pretending to give a shit about doctors,nurses,patients families and dead people. Fuck off with that MSM bullshit I've personally from trumps action, so has my family and friends in one way or another. We are the only first world country or now even 3rd world country in covid cases and the moron  didn't care so we're only a few days ago that was just at a military Hospital. Overwhelmingly Trump supporters especially have been not taking the pandemic seriously, protesting masks  and causing WAY more suffering then need be for politics. The states that followed his lead and opened early are the worlds hotspots and you blame the Democrats? It's insane




There’s so many typos in this paragraph I cant really follow what you’re saying.

You definitely don’t agree with me is all I can figure out.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26822298 - 07/14/20 03:27 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I dont see the use debating somebody who’s already stated their personal political agenda.

After you tried to say those statistics are in your favor, i dont have time for this level of koodsian sophistry.  Sounds like a headache.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Offlineqman
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26822523 - 07/14/20 08:33 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

qman said:
Hmm, like your math is way off with your own numbers. :shrug:



What error, specifically, did I make? If I made a mistake, I would legitimately love to be corrected. I like to base my opinions in facts.

Here were the assertions I made, mathematically:
  • There were 8,162,849 arrests for violent crime in 2017. 5,626,140 of those were white. 5,626,140 / 8,162,849 == .6892 (68.92% of the arrests for violent crime in 2017 were white perpetrators.)
  • There are 237,188,488 white people in the US. 5,626,140 of them were arrested in 2017 for violent crime. 5,626,140 / 237,188,488 == .0237 (2.37% of white Americans were arrested for violent crime in 2017)
  • There are 41,281,115 black people in the US. 2,221,697 of them were arrested in 2017 for violent crime. 2,221,697 / 41,281,115 == .0528 (5.38% of black Americans were arrested for violent crime in 2017)


I don't see any errors, but maybe you're seeing something I overlooked?

Quote:

lowbrow
Im trying to figure out what you think you’re justifying by posting those statistics because they are not in your favor at all.




Please, let me clear it up. If we're going to have a rational debate, we need to be on the same page:
Quote:

Distorted Vision
Black people commit way more violent crimes in America on average compared to white people.




I was using those statistics to demonstrate that the above quote is wildly hyperbolic.

Yes, on average, black people commit more violent crimes in America than white people. However, claiming that they commit way more violent crime is hyperbolic - the way it is phrased implies that there is a massive difference between the average amount of violent crime between these two races, when the difference is actually just about 3%. I wouldn't say that 3% is enough to convince me that black people are significantly more violent than white people.

That's my position, and I think it's pretty clear that the data backs it up. If you still disagree, we can discuss it more.




"we're talking about a difference of about 3 percent"

No, it's over a 100% difference. The crime rate is more than double. It's 2.37% vs 5.38%.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: qman] * 1
    #26822527 - 07/14/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

OK so a psycho who happens to be black shoots a white woman and we get another "bitch about and take gratuitous shots at black people in general" thread.

Where's the reverse?


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisiblefeeversM
Male

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc: Flag
Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Asante]
    #26822532 - 07/14/20 08:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Dog whistles gonna dog whistle


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InvisibleDistorted Vision
The best. Of the worst.
Male


Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 4,292
Loc: Indiana Flag
Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 1
    #26822623 - 07/14/20 09:44 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

58% or violent crime is by whites in the U.S. according to your link. You added an extra 10%.

Lol I just noticed that page even does the math for us. You can check it out.

38% black.

13% Of our country is black.
76% white.

So there is 5.8 times more white people. So if we times the crimes by blacks by 5.8 we get 875,000. So if the same amount of black people were in our country as white people there would be almost 3x the violent crimes.

Let's just look at murder.

They committed 53%. With 13% of the population.

I don't need to do the math for you to show that that's not a good statistic.

Edit- I did the math. A black person is 5x more likely to kill a person in the U.S. compared to a white person. Ouch.

I've hung out with black people all over the U.S. I've hitch hiked and hung out with thousands of all kinds of people. Great. Your bubble is different.

Most aren't.

Call me racist, I'll just call you dumb.

Now those 4 thumb ups that you got should feel pretty stupid too.

Stop being blind people. Blacks are violent compared to any other race in the U.S.

And we wonder why cops are jumpy around them? It doesn't justify innocent black people dying, but being a cop in a black area is scary shit.


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"Yo yo just here to spread my clit and show ya'll what a wonderful and free being we are all inside lets take the acid and turn inside into the outside come on over baby lets smell the roses ohh ohh come on we're about to get lit show my undies to your baby I'll hug it down three times go around frown come on we aint a nice clown kiss me upside down down down come on sorry if you cant handle my wokeness come on lets take her panties off write shroomery on my asshole and taste it lick it make if feel like we was 1978 come on baby lets do the locamotion"-Twig dude


Edited by Distorted Vision (07/14/20 11:20 AM)


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
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Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: qman]
    #26822643 - 07/14/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
I dont see the use debating somebody who’s already stated their personal political agenda.




If someone hasn't stated their personal political agenda, how do I know what I'm debating against? You're not trying to argue that debate only has a purpose when your interlocutor hasn't declared their political position, right?

Quote:

lowbrow said:
After you tried to say those statistics are in your favor, i dont have time for this level of koodsian sophistry.  Sounds like a headache.



My position, in one sentence: The claim that black people in America are way more violent than white people on average is hyperbolic. I believe the data supports my position, since the use of the word "way" implies a significant difference in violent crime rates. I'm not claiming that black people don't commit more violent crime - the data obviously disagrees with me there. I'm disagreeing with the degree to which the difference in violent crime rates is significant. I don't know if I can explain it any better than that. If you still disagree with me, that's fine (we don't all have to agree on everything), but I wouldn't call it sophistry unless you can actually point out a logical fallacy that I'm making.

Also, I don't know what the word "koodsian" means. I searched for the term, and I can find no information on it. Could you explain it to me?

Quote:

qman said:
"we're talking about a difference of about 3 percent"

The crime rate is more than double.



Both statements are true...

Suppose that instead of 2.37% vs 5.38%, the crime rates were instead 30% and 60%. The difference would be 30% - the second is double the first. However, if those were the actual crime rates, then I would have to change my position, because a difference of 30% is much more statistically significant than a difference of 3%. If the actual numbers were 30% and 60%, then we would have a case where the minority of white people commit violent crime, but the majority of black people commit violent crime. If that were the case, then we could reasonably say that black people are way more likely to commit violent crime.

However, I don't think the actual numbers support such a conclusion. Violent crime is very unlikely regardless of what your race is. Whether you're black or white, it's very unlikely that you're going to commit a violent crime. In particular don't think that black people are significantly more violent enough to justify any sort of political action with respect to race.

To me, it seems that the problem we face as a society is more about addressing the source of violent crime in general, and not about which race is more violent. I am claiming that the source of violent crime is not race. Race is not a very accurate predictor of violent crime. If the numbers were 30% and 60%, then I think race would be considered a more accurate predictor of violent crime - but those aren't the numbers we're dealing with...

The more time we spend debating "which race is more violent", the longer we delay the conversation of how we're going to prevent violent crime.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Edited by Nonagon Infinity (07/14/20 09:59 AM)


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26822654 - 07/14/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Koodsian Sophistry--my new band name!

album title-- "The Koods"


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InvisibleDistorted Vision
The best. Of the worst.
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Posts: 4,292
Loc: Indiana Flag
Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 1
    #26822662 - 07/14/20 10:06 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

"The more time we spend debating "which race is more violent", the longer we delay the conversation of how we're going to prevent violent crime."

Sounds like someone that just lost an argument and won't admit it.

Edit- sorry I hate being called racist when it shouldn't be called racist to point out facts. Black people have everyone so scared of being racist that we can't solve the fucking problem.


Edited by Distorted Vision (07/14/20 10:08 AM)


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Loc: Flag
Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Distorted Vision]
    #26822669 - 07/14/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Distorted Vision said:
58% or violent crime is by whites in the U.S. according to your link. You added an extra 10%.

38% black.

13% Of our country is black.
76% white.

So there is 5.8 times more white people. So if we times the crimes by blacks by 5.8 we get 875,000. So if the same amount of black people were in our country as white people there would be almost 3x the violent crimes.

Let's just look at murder.

They committed 53%. With 13% of the population.

I don't need to do the math for you to show that that's not a good statistic.

I've hung out with black people all over the U.S. I've hitch hiked and hung out with thousands of all kinds of people. Great. Your bubble is different.

Most aren't.

Call me racist, I'll just call you dumb.




What are the crime rates comparing black people who live in wealthy gated communities and white people who live in wealthy gated communities?

Now what is the crime rate in wealthy white people compared to white people living in poverty?

In my city (Boston), the median black person's net worth is $8. The median white person's net worth is $247,500. Country wide it's estimated at 17k vs 170k, white people have 10 times the net worth.

It's almost like there's a whole lot more to the situation than the melanin content in someone's skin...

You're making up your mind on an entire race based upon a group of friends that's a sample the size of a drop of water in a lake. You're saying their culture is about violence, while (if you're white) belonging to the race that enslaved, raped, molested, and murdered them for centuries. The same race who's current culture has been obsessed with glorifying the mafia, biker gangs, guns and war in countless movies and TV shows. Hell, there are probably more white gangsta rap lovers and wannabe thugs than black ones at this point.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: feevers]
    #26822676 - 07/14/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hell, there are probably more white gangsta rap lovers and wannabe thugs than black ones at this point.

Sure seems like it.:sad::scat:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Distorted Vision] * 1
    #26822683 - 07/14/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Distorted Vision said:

Edit- sorry I hate being called racist when it shouldn't be called racist to point out facts. Black people have everyone so scared of being racist that we can't solve the fucking problem.





You crack me up man!

I hate being called racist, white people are so scared of being called racist and its black people's fault.

Poetry man.

Those evil wicked black people that have turned everyone afraid of being racist anymore :lol:

If you ask me, Voodoo is at fault. Don't you think? :rotfl:

Some obcure black magic that makes people feel bad about coming across as racist.

Its their fault! If they weren't so black there wouldnt be racism :hissyfit:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleDistorted Vision
The best. Of the worst.
Male


Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 4,292
Loc: Indiana Flag
Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Asante] * 4
    #26822691 - 07/14/20 10:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

So you're going to skip all the statistics?

Sounds about right with you.:thumbup:


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"Yo yo just here to spread my clit and show ya'll what a wonderful and free being we are all inside lets take the acid and turn inside into the outside come on over baby lets smell the roses ohh ohh come on we're about to get lit show my undies to your baby I'll hug it down three times go around frown come on we aint a nice clown kiss me upside down down down come on sorry if you cant handle my wokeness come on lets take her panties off write shroomery on my asshole and taste it lick it make if feel like we was 1978 come on baby lets do the locamotion"-Twig dude


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Posts: 86,795
Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Distorted Vision]
    #26822694 - 07/14/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If I systematically disadvantage you for generations you are statistically more likely to be upset too.

Black people are remarkably composed for whats been and being done to them.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Woman shot for saying “all lives matter” [Re: Asante]
    #26822711 - 07/14/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Why do some people of color (poor/poorer people period really, in certain areas of towns all over the USA) that get an education and integrate into the business world or working world of teaching or some jobs that require a BA or more enunciate their words differently? i.e: "talk like a white person". They may have come from very poor backgrounds in section 8 housing and grew up with the "ghetto lingo" with tone inflection and certain words being perpetuated seemingly to keep people in a certain place by their own friends and family. An example would be if someone gets educated or wants to go to collage and get out of that way of being/lifestyle/neighborhood they are pretty much a target for bullying and other negative things by some of their peers, friends, and family. Does a Harvard grad (or any collage with some clout, they all mostly do, but that one in particular is a strong example) that is a person of color say to another business partner "oops, my bad", "did you axe them tho'?", and turn plural words into singular words and vice versa? Why is bad grammar, and speaking/acting a certain way perpetuated and even celebrated among certain groups of people white and non white?

"Carlton" would be good example of this.


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