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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Rahz]
    #26850174 - 07/28/20 03:52 PM (17 days, 16 hours ago)

Being male and acting girly means youre a male who acts girly. It doesnt make you a "Mirly" or a "Gale" just because you like how it sounds.

I'm sorry if you want a new word for that or you dont like the wording that comes naturally. Your gender / sex doesnt change. Youre male.



But yeah eventually the politically correct climate we live in will cater to the needs of these people. And will change the definitions of words.




Imagine if they decided "profession" no longer meant the same thing as "job". And just made profession mean like.... what you wished you did for a living. Or some nonsense like that.


And I am not saying that in a way that is insulting people who want to act girly as a male. I'm saying that purely in the defense of the word "profession" forever meaning "job" and nothing else.





If you want to have an argument that fucking matters. Argue whether or not Males can act girly. You will find SIGNIFICANTLY less resistance. And honestly I bet that bores people. So they push until they find something that will garner resistance.


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OfflineWASTE
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten] * 1
    #26850296 - 07/28/20 05:04 PM (17 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:

I'm sorry if you want a new word for that or you dont like the wording that comes naturally. Your gender / sex doesnt change. Youre male.





Here lies the disconnect; so many people fallaciously believe that language as it currently exists reflects some underlying truth about nature.

Just did a quick google search of the history of the word "profession," turns out it's been subject to change, just as all language is. It is simply false to assert that language is monolithic. https://www.etymonline.com/word/profession

As for your last point "argue about something that matters," trans people absolutely do matter. Whether or not you recognize their validity, you must admit that people who believe themselves to be trans do exist. And based on polls, we see that trans people are at a significantly higher risk of suicide than the general population. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/

Even if you believe all trans people to be delusional or suffering from a mental illness, doesn't this still warrant some care?


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Darwin23]
    #26850345 - 07/28/20 05:29 PM (17 days, 15 hours ago)

Very coherent explaination. This is the case when it comes to trans people, there's even been autopsies on closeted and non closeted transwomen that demonstarted structural differences in the brain that would lead one to think it is a female brain.


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26850353 - 07/28/20 05:32 PM (17 days, 15 hours ago)

I personally don't see barbarism as progress, but each to their own. Gender is actually an ever changing thing, the ideals of men in the past was not as it is now. The nobles of the past were expected to exude a lot of grace thats now associated with women, today it is not the same.


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: AcidGandalf]
    #26850376 - 07/28/20 05:43 PM (17 days, 15 hours ago)

I'll comment on this post because it relates to me personally. I'm diagnosed with gender dysphoria, the same condition trans people have, I am also autistic. I think the two are very much linked, in my case. (30% of trans people are autistic. I actually got diagnosed at the gender clinic, so no, they're not useless or grooming people. It was actually recommended that I don't transition if i'm not prepared to get a lot more sensory problems...so, I didn't. No point trading one issue for another.)

Some people just dont like being put into a personality and behaviour box based on their genitals, others don't even want the genitals they were born with and have a physical repulsion towards their own and even show neurological differences that have to originate during fetal development due to the way our brains develop (This has been documented in studies, its pretty fascinating).

Personally growing up I just didn't understand why we needed to treats males and females differently, i actually thought i'd get to choose and when I realise I had no choice I was upset. I've always been a very androgynous person. I was considering transitioning until I took LSD and had an ephiphany that, yes i'm probably autistic (was undiagnosed then), and that gender doesn't really matter. I visualised two color blobs dancing and molding into each other. The meat suit is temporary, and anyone who judges you based on your sex, or a change of sex is not someone to associate with. It's also important to be kind to people. You can think there's only females or males all you like, but being mean to someone who has transitioned is just rudeness.


Edited by AcidGandalf (07/28/20 05:46 PM)


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: WASTE]
    #26851114 - 07/29/20 04:52 AM (17 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

WASTE said:
Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:

I'm sorry if you want a new word for that or you dont like the wording that comes naturally. Your gender / sex doesnt change. Youre male.





Here lies the disconnect; so many people fallaciously believe that language as it currently exists reflects some underlying truth about nature.

Just did a quick google search of the history of the word "profession," turns out it's been subject to change, just as all language is. It is simply false to assert that language is monolithic. https://www.etymonline.com/word/profession

As for your last point "argue about something that matters," trans people absolutely do matter. Whether or not you recognize their validity, you must admit that people who believe themselves to be trans do exist. And based on polls, we see that trans people are at a significantly higher risk of suicide than the general population. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/

Even if you believe all trans people to be delusional or suffering from a mental illness, doesn't this still warrant some care?





THIS is exactly what I'm talking about lol.

At no point did I say trans people suck. Or girly men suck. Or whatever else exists out there. But because you guys are arguing semantics you can THINK I am saying that and you can FEEL righteous.

Its artificial. Its fake. Its fucking stupid.



We are literally arguing semantics on a worldwide stage. And youre doing it because if you argued "Trans people are allowed to be trans" you wouldnt get pushback. I'm sure there would be an odd one out here and there but for the most part no one says trans people cant be trans.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26851245 - 07/29/20 07:12 AM (17 days, 1 hour ago)

You maintain that there is no distinction between sex and gender and that the LGBTQ community does draw a distinction. However, you're basically in agreement with them currently. A contrary gender identity denotes someone who thinks/feels like a different sex. Transsexual and Transgender means the same thing although there are some who prefer one over the other.

Considering gender to mean something other than biological sex is contrary to that. I've understood gender to be behavioral for as long as I can remember. I was born in the 70's. You are correct that it was used in English for hundreds of years as a synonym for sex. Apparently this happened because sex also implied fucking and people weren't comfortable with that. But it originally meant "kind" or type, meaning to draw an analogy for classification. When I started using the word it was used to classify behavior, gender being masculine and feminine of which we all have a mix, various polarities which we exhibit to one degree or another. Some people have a balanced gender which doesn't mean they identify as something other than their sex. So, it's actually me that disagrees with current usage.

:shrug:


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Rahz]
    #26851365 - 07/29/20 08:21 AM (17 days, 25 minutes ago)

And how about my main point?

That this argument over definitions is a proxy war substituting outrage over people hating lgbt people?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26851514 - 07/29/20 10:27 AM (16 days, 22 hours ago)

for some people
everything is a proxy war opportunity.
like a crafty concealed carry burning a hole in your pocketses


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26852032 - 07/29/20 02:41 PM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
And how about my main point?

That this argument over definitions is a proxy war substituting outrage over people hating lgbt people?




Semantics are important when discussing the definition of words. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself.

I think both sides have some reasonable points, both sides have moderates that don't agree with everything their side says and can carry on a reasonable conversation. Turns out society is made of individuals.


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Rahz]
    #26852079 - 07/29/20 03:05 PM (16 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
And how about my main point?

That this argument over definitions is a proxy war substituting outrage over people hating lgbt people?




Semantics are important when discussing the definition of words. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself.

I think both sides have some reasonable points, both sides have moderates that don't agree with everything their side says and can carry on a reasonable conversation. Turns out society is made of individuals.





I dont think there are many people who think trans people shouldn't be allowed to be trans.


And I think the argument over the definition of the word "gender" or "sex" is a way to be offended and pretend like someone who thinks "gender" means "sex" is actually a person who thinks trans people shouldnt be allowed to be trans.





It would be like.... say hating A/C Mechanics. And the belief system being presented is that "profession" has a different meaning from "job". And I say that "profession" and "job" mean the same thing. Then you reply with "You fucking hate A/C Mechanics you bigot!".



People are acting like this is some crazy controversial topic. It isnt.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26852196 - 07/29/20 04:12 PM (16 days, 16 hours ago)

Well, there's a difference between finding something reasonable and allowing it.

At any rate anything you say outside blatant agreement can and will be used against you.

There's a subset of polysexuals who suggest anything but polysexuality is bigotry.

One can't make everyone happy so why try?


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Rahz]
    #26852312 - 07/29/20 05:00 PM (16 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Well, there's a difference between finding something reasonable and allowing it.

At any rate anything you say outside blatant agreement can and will be used against you.

There's a subset of polysexuals who suggest anything but polysexuality is bigotry.

One can't make everyone happy so why try?



Quote:

Rahz said:
Well, there's a difference between finding something reasonable and allowing it.

At any rate anything you say outside blatant agreement can and will be used against you.

There's a subset of polysexuals who suggest anything but polysexuality is bigotry.

One can't make everyone happy so why try?





Why do people have to find Stamp collecting reasonable? Its a fucking waste of time. But people are allowed to do it.

If you reckon people need to find stuff "reasonable" then thats thought police shit and it can go fuck itself. No one has to think shit is reasonable.


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26852320 - 07/29/20 05:08 PM (16 days, 15 hours ago)

Stamp books are all the rage in prison.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26852343 - 07/29/20 05:34 PM (16 days, 15 hours ago)

I noted a difference between thinking something is reasonable and "allowing it". People don't "need" to find things reasonable or not, it's just a natural occurrence of thought and if you take a moment to consider this conversation I think/hope you will find you think certain behaviors are unreasonable, even "fucking stupid".

So I think you're being obtuse and unreasonable at this point.


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Rahz]
    #26852352 - 07/29/20 05:41 PM (16 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I noted a difference between thinking something is reasonable and "allowing it". People don't "need" to find things reasonable or not, it's just a natural occurrence of thought and if you take a moment to consider this conversation I think/hope you will find you think certain behaviors are unreasonable, even "fucking stupid".

So I think you're being obtuse and unreasonable at this point.





No. 100 percent not correct on what I am thinking.


I truly in my heart of hearts believe that the argument about what gender means is a way for people to pretend they are the righteous white knight coming to save all who are opressed.


I BELIEVE that. I think people are arguing this because if they argued that trans people matter no one would push back against it. And that bothers them. They want a fight.


I am NOT being obtuse. I am NOT being difficult or beating around the bush. I am being as direct as physically possible. I am saying exactly what I think.



For the most part no one gives two fucks of a shit about trans people being trans or gay people being gay. And I think also people dont care if youre male and act girly or if youre fucking women or fucking trans people. Thats not a topic of relevance.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26852427 - 07/29/20 06:30 PM (16 days, 14 hours ago)

You said "If you reckon people need to find stuff "reasonable" then thats thought police shit and it can go fuck itself."

What's reasonable or not is at worst an opinion. So what you seemed to be saying is that having opinions is thought policing. Telling me it's not right to have an opinion in consideration of what is reasonable or not is thought policing. Just disagree.

And if you think in the context of our conversation that I'm pretending to be a righteous white knight, then you are being obtuse because you don't seem to have acknowledged a word I've said on the subject, and instead perhaps suspect that I'm being disingenuous. That at least is the impression I am getting.

You suggest "people" get upset and outraged over the subject, yet you are the only person in this thread that seems particularly bothered and slinging slander. It's okay for you to think certain behaviors are unreasonable and stupid, but heaven forbid I have an opinion on stamp collecting.

The reality is that gender has more than one connotation/definition and that's what makes it confusing. Sometimes gender is sex and sometimes gender is gender/not sex. This occurs not just in apparently disparate groups but also in the apparent context of a singular community (which is just an illusion/politics IMO). What would be more simple is to say sex is sex and gender is gender. While I don't think it is reasonable, it would also be simple to say sex and gender are sex and masculine/feminine have nothing to do with gender. Neither of those simplifications are going to happen though. There will be a plethora of vernaculars and it will be confusing. Babylon... not that I'm theistic but the story makes a point when not taken literally.

And this whole "X people matter" meme is suspect. Another social trend in which those who scream it the loudest will exclude X people from mattering when they have a difference of opinion. Blacks who say all people matter for instance are "coons". You can be X and be "cancelled" because you don't tow the line. Thought police.


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26852793 - 07/29/20 11:24 PM (16 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:

For the most part no one gives two fucks of a shit about trans people being trans or gay people being gay. And I think also people dont care if youre male and act girly or if youre fucking women or fucking trans people. Thats not a topic of relevance.




I agree. And most people don't care about your other preferences, such as what food you prefer, the type of movies you enjoy, or what color you like your bathroom painted. To define yourself by your sexual preference is a personal problem.


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26852971 - 07/30/20 05:13 AM (16 days, 3 hours ago)

google and facebook care about your preferences and your sex as well as your gender proclivity.


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Re: Transgenders, genders, sex... what's it all about? [Re: Rahz]
    #26853604 - 07/30/20 01:37 PM (15 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
You said "If you reckon people need to find stuff "reasonable" then thats thought police shit and it can go fuck itself."

What's reasonable or not is at worst an opinion. So what you seemed to be saying is that having opinions is thought policing. Telling me it's not right to have an opinion in consideration of what is reasonable or not is thought policing. Just disagree.

And if you think in the context of our conversation that I'm pretending to be a righteous white knight, then you are being obtuse because you don't seem to have acknowledged a word I've said on the subject, and instead perhaps suspect that I'm being disingenuous. That at least is the impression I am getting.

You suggest "people" get upset and outraged over the subject, yet you are the only person in this thread that seems particularly bothered and slinging slander. It's okay for you to think certain behaviors are unreasonable and stupid, but heaven forbid I have an opinion on stamp collecting.

The reality is that gender has more than one connotation/definition and that's what makes it confusing. Sometimes gender is sex and sometimes gender is gender/not sex. This occurs not just in apparently disparate groups but also in the apparent context of a singular community (which is just an illusion/politics IMO). What would be more simple is to say sex is sex and gender is gender. While I don't think it is reasonable, it would also be simple to say sex and gender are sex and masculine/feminine have nothing to do with gender. Neither of those simplifications are going to happen though. There will be a plethora of vernaculars and it will be confusing. Babylon... not that I'm theistic but the story makes a point when not taken literally.

And this whole "X people matter" meme is suspect. Another social trend in which those who scream it the loudest will exclude X people from mattering when they have a difference of opinion. Blacks who say all people matter for instance are "coons". You can be X and be "cancelled" because you don't tow the line. Thought police.





How have we had a back and forth for this long and you not once mention what I'm talking about???


The correct defining of these words is a way for people to argue and pretend they are arguing about trans people being allowed to be trans. It is a battle about semantics on a worldwide stage.


If you argued that trans people are allowed to be trans you wouldnt get any pushback and that would bore the shit out of you.











[Also the thought policing thing is you saying people should find Trans people reasonable. People are allowed to find it unreasonable if they want.]


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