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OfflineNorthernerM
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Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics.
    #26818711 - 07/12/20 04:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Have and of you had stereotypical NDE type phenomena from psychedelics? Did it effect you to a greater extent was it just another trip?

I've had some pretty heavy experiences where I was either sure I was actually dead or had completely forgotten that I was human and was just a spirit floating, I experienced some things that people report on NDEs. At the time they were just wild trips, but years go by and I remember back they seem almost like spiritual experiences and are harder to dismiss as hallucinations. These visions come back to me with such clarity and I am left pondering whether what I experienced was real or not.

Anyone else have anything like this? How do you integrate that stuff?


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OfflineHotdog from Space
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Northerner]
    #26818716 - 07/12/20 04:56 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

A tip: drop the "is it real or not". That is part of your conditioning speaking, the cultural matrix so to speak. Often westerners think that their horizontal rational/realist conditioning can make sense of the vertical spiritual realms ... It goes way, way higher than the conditioned ego-mind can comprehend.


I guess these stupid questions only come up in people who use psychedelics to have mystical experiences, cause those who get there without psychedelics have already deconditioned their cultural conditioning and don't have this issue when they have the experiences.


Edited by Hotdog from Space (07/12/20 04:58 AM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Hotdog from Space] * 2
    #26818733 - 07/12/20 05:09 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Get fucked with your tip mate.  :lol:  I know the difference between breakthrough/psychedelic realities and this reality having been to the other side hundreds of times. There are a couple of very specific experiences I have had that are related to death that keep replaying years later though.

Even if you got to this place without drugs, purely through meditation you'd have still not have the answer as to whether or not it's real. But you will still have to deal with the integration... which is what this thread is about.


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OfflineHotdog from Space
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Northerner]
    #26818740 - 07/12/20 05:16 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
you'd have still not have the answer as to whether or not it's real. But you will still have to deal with the integration... which is what this thread is about.




Only if your conditioned symbolical mind is still playing tricks, it depends on wich framework you have.


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Offlinepolaritymind
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Hotdog from Space]
    #26818750 - 07/12/20 05:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Freud said it doesnt matter whether it is literally realy, what matters is its a psychic reality. In that it has a message, a symbolysm to convey.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Hotdog from Space]
    #26818758 - 07/12/20 05:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You're derailing my thread HfS. I could go on about symbolism relative to conditioning for pages as well, but this is not the topic of conversation. I'm talking about integration of trips that are death experiences. If you have had an experience like this please add more about it, but if not please don't.

Or whatever... you guys can just talk about whatever you will and I'll bow out.


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Hotdog from Space] * 1
    #26818826 - 07/12/20 07:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

A tip Hotdog from Space; Try to keep that pseudo spiritual stuff in the Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology or Spirituality & mysticism forums. Or at least try not derail other peoples threads with your higher state of awareness façade.

Personally I believe that neurochemical, biological and individual personal differences play a much larger role in one's integration of the psychedelic experience. As opposed to cultural upbringing and western influences. When you say stuff like that you’re pigeon holing a lot of people who you might not be aware hold a certain view on something that you currently aren't even aware exists yet. Your basically limiting your ability to remain open minded about other peoples perception of reality and spirituality. Which is a valuable ability.

As a highly analytical person, yet deeply agnostic when it comes to spiritual and theistic concepts. I strongly believe that no single human is or ever will be close to holding the answers to understanding what universal forces drive our existence. You can claim that that you’re close to it. But that would only be your perception, wouldn't it?

I'm not saying that you’re wrong, or right either. But rather you should keep an open mind to other peoples experiences than be so dismissive. you’re only limiting yourself otherwise.
Quote:

Hotdog from Space said:
:blah:






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Edited by Nickoloxious (07/12/20 08:55 AM)


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Nickoloxious] * 1
    #26819245 - 07/12/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

To answer the main question: I have no idea how to integrate those kind of experiences. I’m not really sure there even is a way to integrate something so strangely profound into “real life”.

I think of it a bit like other inexplicable experiences, like UFO or ghost sightings. Even if you wanted to “make sense of it”... I think, ultimately,  a person would end up having to invent a narrative or mythology to properly compartmentalize these types of experiences. I try to just leave it open ended. I know something happened, just not sure what it was. And that’s it. And it’s fine that way.

although I am sure that I could start practicing yoga or Buddhism or other spiritual paths, and find a way to retroactively explain it... I am not too comfortable with the idea of “filling in the gaps” with the most convenient evidence to support my personal experience. Just feels a bit dishonest to me.

Sorry this wasn’t more helpful. Could I turn the question around a bit? What reason do you have for wanting to integrate something so outside your normal scope of reality?

Edit: lol or you could just pick a random nonwestern framework and ascend spiritually without needing drugs. That’s the way the pros do it. :tongue2: :sun: :mushroom2:


Edited by Shr00mEater (07/12/20 11:43 AM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26819460 - 07/12/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Even when Ive thought I was dead I knew I wasn’t, so.... :shrug:    If any form of experience remains that’s always the dead giveaway that one is still alive.

The vestigial belief in an ego, real substance, or god were the last things to go- if anything has “died”in a trip it’s those subliminal beliefs.
After experientially recognizing that - the experience of the moment is beyond the intellect and nothing thought or believed makes any difference to the reality of the inseparability of primal nondual awareness & being. 


--------------------
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Edited by The Blind Ass (07/12/20 02:17 PM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26819863 - 07/12/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shr00mEater said:
To answer the main question: I have no idea how to integrate those kind of experiences. I’m not really sure there even is a way to integrate something so strangely profound into “real life”.

I think of it a bit like other inexplicable experiences, like UFO or ghost sightings. Even if you wanted to “make sense of it”... I think, ultimately,  a person would end up having to invent a narrative or mythology to properly compartmentalize these types of experiences. I try to just leave it open ended. I know something happened, just not sure what it was. And that’s it. And it’s fine that way.

although I am sure that I could start practicing yoga or Buddhism or other spiritual paths, and find a way to retroactively explain it... I am not too comfortable with the idea of “filling in the gaps” with the most convenient evidence to support my personal experience. Just feels a bit dishonest to me.

Sorry this wasn’t more helpful. Could I turn the question around a bit? What reason do you have for wanting to integrate something so outside your normal scope of reality?

Edit: lol or you could just pick a random nonwestern framework and ascend spiritually without needing drugs. That’s the way the pros do it. :tongue2: :sun: :mushroom2:



The reason this has come up for me I guess is I've had a couple of health scares recently.Though I'm through them now I'm certainly getting older and feeling my mortality much more pressing than when I was a younger man.

Death is the final great adventure. And the questions about it can never be truly answered, by that doesn't stop me asking.

I find a funny illogical reverence (particularly here at shroomery) going about non-western religions. They are just man made constructs full of Gods, superstition and asinine rules like western religions. The people who practise these religions have not ascended, they're still just as alive as the rest of us and don't have the answers either. Just a different belief system. Buddhists are no closer to the truth than Hindus or those who worship Tiki. Of course they say they are, but Christians and Muslims claim that as well.

And the spiritual ascension in these religions is made up. For fuck sake, the Dalai Lama was born ascended, well reincarnated to be precise. I wonder how they would have done if the social conditioning given to that child was rejected and he decided it was a pile of steaming dung and got himself a harem.  :lol:

Meanwhile I'm still happy to ponder different men's interpretations.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Even when Ive thought I was dead I knew I wasn’t, so.... :shrug:    If any form of experience remains that’s always the dead giveaway that one is still alive.

The vestigial belief in an ego, real substance, or god were the last things to go- if anything has “died”in a trip it’s those subliminal beliefs.
After experientially recognizing that - the experience of the moment is beyond the intellect and nothing thought or believed makes any difference to the reality of the inseparability of primal nondual awareness & being. 



If you read near death experience encounters and watch interviews of people who have experienced them, sentience and sense of self is a common narrative.

The experiences that are recalling the most at the moment, the ones that replay, are ones where I had no sense of self at all but was only an experiential point of perception. There was no internal dialogue. I knew nothing of this world, where I was, nor had any body or identity. Basically just a point comprised of only sight and feeling. Everything else had ceased to exist.

I've read a lot more on this topic in the last day or so and found other experiences I've had are also common to NDEs. Though I never considered these before. It makes me wonder about the link between psychedelics and spiritual separation even more. Having always considered spirituality as a man made constructs rather than an ever present reality it feels a bit like a Pandora's Box situation.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Northerner]
    #26819885 - 07/12/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

  My experience has been laden with and structured by whatever dominant subliminal beliefs I’d assimilated about a sense of self,  phenomena, reality etc.  it’s a head turner for sure.




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Edited by The Blind Ass (07/12/20 05:39 PM)


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26819932 - 07/12/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

When I was 18 I took 2 boxes of ccc's (stupid, I know) and had a "fly on the wall" OBE. I also existed as a part of endless yellow, orange, and red squiggles for an eternity and felt like I was being pulled simultaneously from every conceivable direction. It was strange.

:feelsweirdman:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Obie1989]
    #26819960 - 07/12/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You know how in some video games when your character dies & while your waiting to respawn you become a disembodied “fly on the wall” that has omnidirectional movement control?  That kind can seemingly takes place in the natural world or a simulacrum of the natural world.  That can and Other NDE’s/OBE’s can also seemingly happen in something akin to an otherworldly dream world.  Both are experientially fascinating.

Obie, I also had that happen from DXM plus too much cannabis :lol:  Also happened to a friend at the same time.  We hovered around the room freaking out trying to get back in our bodies, after that initial freak out it was dope hovering about and exploring.  The afterglow from that experience was epically blissful.  I felt like a weighed half my actual weight for a whole week.


Edited by The Blind Ass (07/12/20 06:12 PM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26820006 - 07/12/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That's pretty wild guys. I accidentally found myself looking down at myself during meditation one time, but the shock jolted me back into my body. It scared me a little.

Another time (with DMT) I was completely dissolved and found myself floating in a white space with sacred geometry made of gold rotating. At that time I had no knowledge of these objects or anything about them. They just came to me.

This sort of thing makes me think that there may be a greater reality or truth that lies outside of our sociological constructs. That the fabric of our existence and end of our current incarnation are just a energy flux through dimensions, and that the things we experience are an inevitability rather than a possibility.

I wonder though whether these things I have glimpsed are part of that inevitability. And if so would I just rest easier by adopting nihilism rather than pondering these questions. After all the outcome would be identical and I'd save myself a lot of suffering.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26820151 - 07/12/20 09:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I hear ya.  And idk :shrug: .  Only thing I would suggest is taking the middle path between nihilism and whatever else might be at the opposite end of the spectrum.  Much more comfy and closer to the truth of things in the middle, spacious even.  Flexible in that it allows for progress and change while still admitting to having feet of clay.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26820185 - 07/12/20 09:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I think what he was saying was trust your experience as real

I mean it happen, the interpretation is what becomes up for debate

Ive often questioned if what i believe i experienced on mushrooms was what it actually was

Even if during the experience i had no question or doubt

I always felt what was most important was what we did next

How we decide to act or what we believe because of the experience

In large i feel the meaning of the experience is for us to determine and we decide how it will impact us moving forward

The thought alone can alter our reality and the reality of those around us

Maybe im a bit off

Sounds like you're forming your own ideas views and beliefs about it Northerner

Id be interested to hear what exactly those are if they solidify

Youre just a mystic man :shrug: dont fight it


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26820186 - 07/12/20 09:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Mark Twain said death didn't bother him. 

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

It's sort of like that.  I've never had any typical NDE from mushrooms.  YMMV.

But I've had all sorts of other experiences, although they generally present themselves as life-affirming instead.

If you look at sources like the Tibetan Book of the Dead you find explicit descriptions of the Bardos and the process of dying - one does well to be prepared but not to dwell on it.  Failing that leads it seems to spiritual materialism and all the ills of modern misbegotten beliefs.

I've done counseling for people who were close to death using material from the Book of the Dead and it seemed to help them considerably in keeping their spirit form intact while passing on - or so they informed me afterwards.

How deeply you want to get into beliefs about this stuff kind of depends on whether you want to plumb the depths of possible experience, and I've never found that to be a bad thing. You're in for the ride anyway, might as well understand the scenery along the way. :shrug:


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Edited by PrimalSoup (07/12/20 09:52 PM)


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26820678 - 07/13/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If you trip long enough and do not flee the bad trips but let them gore you, you will achieve a state where your life and birth traumas are worked through and you get Ego Death experiences to reset the new constellation of your mind without the traumatic hangups.

Those are very much like NDE.


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Northerner]
    #26820741 - 07/13/20 09:44 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Based on what I've read, current science points to the "ego death" experience and dissolution of self being cause by the default mode network in the brain quieting or shutting down.

I would think it's possible that the same thing happens when people have NDEs due to physical trauma. That basically this experience is caused by something happening (or ceasing to happen) in your brain, and that multiple things could cause that to happen.

In that sense, NDE type experience on psychedelics could be just as "real" as one caused by something else.

No one can answer if that experience is what post-life is actually like for an extended period and you're getting a glimpse into it, or whether it's just how your brain acts when the DMN is shut off.

I haven't experienced this myself, but find it an interesting thought experiment.


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Northerner]
    #26820877 - 07/13/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Have and of you had stereotypical NDE type phenomena from psychedelics? Did it effect you to a greater extent was it just another trip?

I've had some pretty heavy experiences where I was either sure I was actually dead or had completely forgotten that I was human and was just a spirit floating, I experienced some things that people report on NDEs. At the time they were just wild trips, but years go by and I remember back they seem almost like spiritual experiences and are harder to dismiss as hallucinations. These visions come back to me with such clarity and I am left pondering whether what I experienced was real or not.

Anyone else have anything like this? How do you integrate that stuff?




Hey northerner, I hope you’re alright, pal.

I have had at least one (near) death experience with mushrooms, in 1987, and I am still trying to integrate it. A stupid dose of Liberty Caps!

Have you seen The Spirit Molecule YouTube videos hosted by Joe Rogan, or read the book? There’s a woman in there that talks about a sort of “waiting room”. And she felt at home there, as if she had been there before. Really comforting and full of love.

Well I have almost been that deep with mushrooms, where I transcend time and space, and get to that waiting room.

But the Liberty Cap experience was something far more deep, and I should say, sinister! I went beyond the universe, and beyond where god and Satan had access to, the void. I was there on my own as a spark of energy in a dark, cold, lonely void. For thousands of years! The first few years I rued the sadness I would have caused to my family I had left behind. Then I noticed the cold. And then I got lonely. That wa the worst. And I knew it was eternal.

I’ve been directly focussing on integrating this for the last 5 years now, having had all sorts of counselling in the past. I still haven’t got there and worked it all out.

So the bottom line, mushrooms haven’t YET removed my fear of dying; if anything, they’ve increased it exponentially for the last 33 years. Hope this somehow makes you able to console your own fears though possibly made them worse :eek:

I want to learn, experience, then believe, through mushroom use,,that after physical death I will go back to the waiting room, and not the void.

Mush love
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Asante]
    #26821123 - 07/13/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
If you trip long enough and do not flee the bad trips but let them gore you, you will achieve a state where your life and birth traumas are worked through and you get Ego Death experiences to reset the new constellation of your mind without the traumatic hangups.

Those are very much like NDE.





I guess I would have to have NDEs to be able to compare but that really ain't happening. :cookiemonster:



--------------------

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Edited by PrimalSoup (07/13/20 01:47 PM)


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26821249 - 07/13/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I tried some new bubble hash yesterday and had a tunnel vision vortex experience that came suddenly but had a lot of similarity with salvia gravity effects. I interpret that as persistence with layers building up as I tilted my head. Continuing the arc of my movement makes a constricting spiral, and this solidifies as the frames of experience persist and layer on top of each other. the white is where everything is most layered.

later as I got into bed 10 minutes after another huge toke that made me nauseous I felt a sudden buzz and then lost sense as everything went "DARK" and dizzy, and then the world reappeared from a white dot in the center of vision.

Anyway, I think when things fall apart, tunnels with light are more common than not. It's freaky but I do not think it really means anything about death or our living dimension except for mental layering to the point of overload.


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Northerner]
    #26822271 - 07/14/20 02:04 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I once had a hallucination of an ornate statue lined hallway leading to an elaborate doorway to the afterlife (which seemed to be inviting me in), but I wouldn't really call it a near death experience, just a cool visual.


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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: nooneman]
    #26822451 - 07/14/20 07:27 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Larry Hagman, now deceased actor, speaks candidly about how he did a high dose of LSD in the 60s, he entered the White Light andlost all fear of death since for the rest of his life:




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Re: Tunnel of light and other near death like experiences from psychedelics. [Re: Asante]
    #26825800 - 07/15/20 07:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I remember having a feeling I was dead during my very first trip.  Even in the moment (and it was pretty close to the peak IIRC) I thought it was trite and just moved on.  There wasn't any white light or typical NDE stuff.  The trip got way more interesting after I accepted I wasn't dead and moved it elsewhere.


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