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InvisibleHartford
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Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 1,149
Loc: Tennessee
Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Enlil]
    #26818189 - 07/11/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Let's distill it down to the basic elements: the role of government is to provide for the common defense. This can be interpreted many ways, but the most common thing to defend is one's life. When the majority of people feel threatened enough to need protection, the hand of the government is moved to supply the protection.

As previously demonstrated, the existence of deadly illnesses is a compelling enough idea to make soccer moms quit sending their children to school and barricade themselves and their kids inside, which effectively ruins a country.

In order to help them feel safe enough to not ruin the country (whether the threat is real or not), the government must ensure they feel safe somehow, regardless of how patriotic it is.

In conclusion, the fear of a pandemic is strong enough to crush anyone's aspirations for individuality if they are caught not wearing a mask in the wrong place at the wrong time. So everyone should be wise as serpents and prepare to blend in and appease them.

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OfflineVigilantevendetta
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Registered: 04/11/20
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: searching]
    #26818449 - 07/11/20 11:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

There are logical inconsistencies on both sides of the spectrum. 

However, as a scientist myself (chemical & biomolecular engineer, Pfizer R&D, targeted drug synthesis), there is a glaring contradiction in policy. 

Seasonal influenza routinely kills 250,000 to 500,000 in a typical year and that’s with a vaccine.  COVID-19 has killed ~550,000 in almost eight months and deaths are lower now than in April. 

Even if we break a million annual deaths, is COVID-19 really that much more virulent than the influenza? 

Why don’t we wear masks to prevent influenza deaths?  Are 1,000,000 potential deaths more important than 500,000 deaths? 

Why did we suddenly decide that quarantines applied to more than the infected? 

The fact that it has become so political should make every one of you suspicious yet the knee jerk reaction is to regurgitate your parties platform ideology and properly polarizing you just in time for November elections.

Idiocracy indeed.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Vigilantevendetta]
    #26818491 - 07/12/20 12:01 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Either way you look at it, the death rate is much higher than flu.  Of the people who don't die, many are left with permanent lung damage.  Covid has killed over 5 times more people in the U.S. than the flu this season.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

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OfflineCapt. Flapjack
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Registered: 06/22/20
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Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Enlil]
    #26818511 - 07/12/20 12:16 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I'm only a young guy in my mid 20's but I see it as something that his no real personal consequence and keeps the people around me safe in the event that I have it and don't know. there is literally nothing to lose from wearing one! People who refuse to wear one simply boggle my mind, are you REALLY going to be that dense and blatantly uncaring about the health of others around you??

I think much of the name calling on both sides is uncalled for, because it usually simply devolves into threats on a persons life, but I do not agree with people who do not wear masks.

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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Capt. Flapjack]
    #26818534 - 07/12/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

It inhibits my yodeling.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Vigilantevendetta] * 1
    #26818570 - 07/12/20 01:07 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Right now less than 2% of the world’s population has been infected. It may even be less than 1%. So we have 550,000 deaths with 98% of the population still vulnerable. The CFR of covid is around 1.2% based on a large, well structured randomized sample of the Spanish population. We’re taking about 50,000,000 deaths and a complete breakdown of healthcare


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: koods]
    #26818575 - 07/12/20 01:14 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Why did we suddenly decide that quarantines applied to more than the infected?




Quarantine as a concept has never only been about the infected. Quarantine is derived from Italian word for forty because that is how many days ships with potential infections would be required to stay out to sea before pasengers would be allowed to debark. It’s always been about isolating potential infections, not just known infections.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Capt. Flapjack]
    #26818634 - 07/12/20 02:19 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Capt. Flapjack said:
I'm only a young guy in my mid 20's but I see it as something that his no real personal consequence and keeps the people around me safe in the event that I have it and don't know. there is literally nothing to lose from wearing one! People who refuse to wear one simply boggle my mind, are you REALLY going to be that dense and blatantly uncaring about the health of others around you??

I think much of the name calling on both sides is uncalled for, because it usually simply devolves into threats on a persons life, but I do not agree with people who do not wear masks.




Nothing to lose from wearing one? Well why don't you continue to wear one for the rest of your life then to protect yourself and others from the flu, colds and whatever else you might be carrying. Did you wear one before this year as well, or did you used to be dense and blatantly uncaring toward the health of others around you?

I avoid wearing one because I can't breathe in it, at least not if I wear it properly. I suffered a hypoxic brain injury when I overdosed on heroin in 2016 and after a short time of wearing a mask properly I begin experiencing symptoms of oxygen deprivation as well as psychological distress as I am immediately taken back to that overdose. After a few days of trying to wear one I began experiencing nightmares at night where I was being suffocated  and that's when I realized masks were not for me.

Sure I will "wear" one when required but I find ways to make it breathable such as wearing it under my nose or away from my face or I will remove the inner layers. However it's highly questionable if it does any good that way. In fact, I haven't seen any conclusive evidence it does any good when worn properly anyway. All the studies I've seen supporting masks are flawed. Of course in addition to restricting breathing, it is also harmful to the social fabric in the sense that it does not allow you to see peoples faces. This is especially difficult for people who suffer from hearing loss and must rely on their ability to read peoples lips in order to communicate effectively. I had a coworker who had to quit her position because she is partially deaf and cannot understand people who have a mask on.

Not to mention the possibility that masks actually contribute to the spread of disease when you consider how frequently people touch their masks, how infrequently many people wash them or change masks and how they are often disposed of.

So perhaps if someone can show me conclusive evidence that they actually protect people I might change my mind. Until then I will remain skeptical and opposed to rules that require the general public to stick any old piece of cloth over their face, call it a mask and pretend like it makes them better than people who choose not to wear one.

I also find it ironic how many people I see diligently wearing a mask and yet making no effort to stay six feet away from me. One thing I do when not wearing a mask is make an effort to stay as far away from others as practically possible, out of respect for the possibility they might be afraid of catching the virus. If other people can't be bothered to stay away from me, then I don't see how that's any worse than my refusal to wear a mask.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

Edited by Peyote Road (07/12/20 02:28 AM)

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Peyote Road] * 2
    #26818737 - 07/12/20 05:14 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

suffered a hypoxic brain injury when I overdosed on heroin in 2016 and after a short time of wearing a mask properly I begin experiencing symptoms of oxygen deprivation as well as psychological distress as I am immediately taken back to that overdose



Yeah this is stupid. You’re not getting hypoxia from wearing a mask. Give me a fucking break. Maybe you have PTSD. If you can’t psychologically handle a piece of cloth over your mouth, then you should stay home until the pandemic is over. So tired of these ridiculous excuses. You’re not special.

Covid... that’s where you’re gonna get hypoxia.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineVigilantevendetta
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Registered: 04/11/20
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: koods]
    #26818835 - 07/12/20 07:31 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Why did we suddenly decide that quarantines applied to more than the infected?




Quarantine as a concept has never only been about the infected. Quarantine is derived from Italian word for forty because that is how many days ships with potential infections would be required to stay out to sea before pasengers would be allowed to debark. It’s always been about isolating potential infections, not just known infections.




Fair enough.

Quote:

koods said:
Right now less than 2% of the world’s population has been infected. It may even be less than 1%. So we have 550,000 deaths with 98% of the population still vulnerable. The CFR of covid is around 1.2% based on a large, well structured randomized sample of the Spanish population. We’re taking about 50,000,000 deaths and a complete breakdown of healthcare





The CDC has confirmed a recent Stanford study stating that the actual death rate is closer to 0.04%.  This new was released just a few days ago. 

Healthcare was already in shambles.  I’d prefer it’s total disintegration so we can get on with its replacement. 

Again, given that death rates of COVID and seasonal influenza are of a similar magnitude, why don’t we wear masks to prevent influenza deaths?

The mask is a metaphor for the suppression of free speech.  It and the current “quarantine” guidelines are leading to a dwindling of human connection, social isolation, etc.

Depression and anxiety is rampant, suicide rates are up 800%, child molestation and domestic abuse are on the rise, lives are being destroyed to protect the small vulnerable segments of the population. 

Our response is disproportionate to the threat.  I for one prefer natural section over a forced and unnecessary dystopia.

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InvisibleHartford
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Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Vigilantevendetta]
    #26818849 - 07/12/20 07:41 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Vigilantevendetta you're right, the  covid numbers are inflated. The definition of a covid death is anyone who dies with a positive diagnosis for corona, be it an auto accident or gunshot wound! Hospitals are filled with greedy healthcare workers with an high standard of living, incentivised by government funding to inflate the numbers and I'm sure they're worried that if their customer supply dries up, they'll have to start doing honest labor. From head to toe, the whole system is sick!

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Hartford]
    #26818929 - 07/12/20 08:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The CDC has confirmed a recent Stanford study stating that the actual death rate is closer to 0.04%.




That’s absurd. Look at the bronx where over .3% of the entire population has died. There are towns in Italy where over 2% of the population has died. It’s just not credible to claim a rate of .04 or .4: The CFR is around 1.2.

Quote:

I’d prefer it’s total disintegration so we can get on with its replacement. 



Sounds like something a healthy self centered person would say


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (07/12/20 08:49 AM)

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InvisibleHartford
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Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: koods]
    #26818949 - 07/12/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

100% of everyone dies. Diminishing their quality of life by making outrageous demands is what's more idiotic.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Hartford]
    #26818957 - 07/12/20 09:03 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

What are the outrageous demands?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: koods]
    #26818963 - 07/12/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The mask is a metaphor for the suppression of free speech. It and the current “quarantine” guidelines are leading to a dwindling of human connection, social isolation, etc. Depression and anxiety is rampant, suicide rates are up 800%




Masks aren’t a metaphor. They’re masks. The entire point of quarantine and social distancing is to reduce connections between humans. Suicides are down - significantly.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: koods]
    #26818973 - 07/12/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

It's outrageous to demand people wear a mask.

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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: koods] * 1
    #26818974 - 07/12/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Koods..I love the new avatar. It's perfect on many levels.  And you're right, masks aren't a metaphor, but many people perceive them as a metaphor because of polarizing and divisive statements coming from the donald

I don't like tRump AND I don't like wearing a mask.  I do however wear a mask because I believe it's better to be safe than sorry and I don't want to be a spreader of the disease.  I own a construction co and am outside in the heat a lot so wearing a mask in stores is pretty difficult at times but I still do it

I truly believe that many of the responses here (and in many other covid related threads) settle the old argument over whether shrooms make you smarter or not...clearly they don't

Anyone fucking around in public and putting people at risk should get this treatment

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Hartford]
    #26819210 - 07/12/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
It's outrageous to demand people wear a mask.




You got a warped sense of right and wrong buddy


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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InvisibleHartford
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Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: koods]
    #26819230 - 07/12/20 11:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

My sense of right and wrong is based on the teachings of Jesus from the books of Matthew Mark and John. He said "heal the sick" and that's what I do. I am much more powerful than covid19 because of my faith and you can overcome it too if you become a of disciple of his. That's part of the good news, you don't have to live in fear.

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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,691
Loc: Flag
Re: Politics and mask wearing [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #26819240 - 07/12/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
My sense of right and wrong is based on the teachings of Jesus




This explains a LOT!

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