Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   Amanita Muscaria Store Amanita Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
OfflineJudeSparky
Stranger
Male


Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 28
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Can micro dosing calms PTSD?
    #26815184 - 07/10/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'm sorry if I'm in a wrong forum category or something. I'm a new cultivator who plans to experience shrooms that I grew myself, and also help my Step-Dad ease his PTSD. He's a hardworker, but often suffer from PTSD. I kinda wanted to use the shrooms I grew to cure him once he arrives here in my country. Does micro dosing him ease his PTSD and depression just by letting him lay down on the bed and put cover on his eyes?

I just really wanted to at least help him a little without spending a lot of money for the therapy. Is it possible to just micro dose him, make him lay down on the bed and relax?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr.Christmas
Who?
I'm a teapot


Registered: 04/08/20
Posts: 119
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 4 minutes
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: JudeSparky]
    #26815220 - 07/10/20 01:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I like where you're coming from with the idea of covering his eyes and having him take mushrooms. You've probably seen pictures in articles from psychiatrists diving into the world of psychedelics to treat PTSD and depression.

No.

I wouldn't do it that way. I personally have zero clue what they're doing. How many grams of what strain are they using? What audio is playing? Why cover their eyes?

I have PTSD and what I personally do is whenever I start getting outrageously anxious, angry, and depressed; I take a nice little trip. The shit thing is that I feel like my psych knows what's about to happen and makes me not want to take the mushrooms but every time after the trip; I feel amazing. Maybe some other people with PTSD can chime in on this but the trips are never a fun experience. Usually lots of crying and deep meditation. Maybe taking them before getting to the point that I get to would prevent this?

Ask your father if he'd be comfortable trying different things such as micro dosing and such.


--------------------

Todo lo que hagas en la vida será insignificante; pero es muy importante que lo hagas.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineredhandmat
Dude


Registered: 05/09/19
Posts: 463
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: Mr.Christmas]
    #26815451 - 07/10/20 03:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sucio said:
I like where you're coming from with the idea of covering his eyes and having him take mushrooms. You've probably seen pictures in articles from psychiatrists diving into the world of psychedelics to treat PTSD and depression.

No.

I wouldn't do it that way. I personally have zero clue what they're doing. How many grams of what strain are they using? What audio is playing? Why cover their eyes?

I have PTSD and what I personally do is whenever I start getting outrageously anxious, angry, and depressed; I take a nice little trip. The shit thing is that I feel like my psych knows what's about to happen and makes me not want to take the mushrooms but every time after the trip; I feel amazing. Maybe some other people with PTSD can chime in on this but the trips are never a fun experience. Usually lots of crying and deep meditation. Maybe taking them before getting to the point that I get to would prevent this?

Ask your father if he'd be comfortable trying different things such as micro dosing and such.




I am reading Pallans book and he mentions these studies. The most important of which are done by Dr. Griffiths from John Hopkins. But these are NOT microdosing studies. As far as I know you need a full o trip to start. The questions you are asking, you can find answers in the studies, in the book by pallan or just in this video. So just to give you some answers here:

Before the trip
Before they even have the trip, like the day (or longer) before the trip they explain a lot of things to the patients. These things revolve about accepting the trip, that wte they may see or experience they should go towards it and with the flow. They explain that it is important that you do not try to run from the scary things you may see and instead not fighting the trip. They also explain that they are in good and experienced hands, that they (the trip sitters) will be there for them and that they don't have to be afraid. They gibe them kind of "airplane emergency" guidelines. (you can find a copy online)

During the trip

As you mentioned the people tripping usually have something over their eyes and earphones on. The purpose of the eyeshades is so that the people tripping have an introspection trip. The trip revolves around them and their thoughts, feelings, ego, psyche etc. In the earphones its usually meditation music or sounds like these that make you calm and sort of set a mystic vibe. The dose is 22 mg pure psilocybin per 70kg body weight. They don't use dried mushrooms because that wouldnt be good in a study with the amount of the drug being studied varying from mushroom to mushroom. However, this is roughly equivalent to 3g dried mushrooms if my google search was right. During the trip its essential that the patient is calm and feel that they are safe. I would imagine this is doubly so for persons with PTSD.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr.Christmas
Who?
I'm a teapot


Registered: 04/08/20
Posts: 119
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 hours, 4 minutes
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: redhandmat]
    #26815507 - 07/10/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redhandmat said:





Wow, that's crazy. I have to dive into these studies and replicate a session for myself. I wonder why they chose 22mg per 70kg, and if there are trials with higher or lower dosages. I'm definitely going to have to explore this further.


--------------------

Todo lo que hagas en la vida será insignificante; pero es muy importante que lo hagas.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNonagon Infinity
Mycologist
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 days
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: Mr.Christmas]
    #26816349 - 07/11/20 12:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hello!

I think you should know that microdosing is not the same thing as tripping. Generally, the idea behind microdosing is to take a sub-perceptual dosage (that is, a dosage that's so small that the effects are practically unnoticeable). People generally microdose to a schedule - like once every three days, or something like that. When microdosing, you should be able to function as normal. If you're doing it correctly, you should simply be able to go about your daily life while microdosing.

People microdose for many different reasons. Some people do it because they feel generally more energetic when they do. Some people microdose to "lubricate the mind" for creative tasks - this was a popular idea in silicon valley among software developers. Others microdose for medicinal reasons, like for treating PTSD and depression.

I have one friend who attempted to treat her own PTSD using microdoses of mushrooms. She would take less than half a gram every three days and just go about her daily life. She said that every day, she would wake up and the very first thing she would think about in the morning was the traumatic event that started her PTSD. It would hang over her head every day, through most of her daily experiences. However, after microdosing consistently for a few weeks, she suddenly started to notice that her trauma was no longer the first thing she thought about every morning. This small, but subtle change grew, and she's dealing with it much better now.

The problem with that anecdotal story is that it's hard to tell whether it was the microdosing or some other change that she made in her life that started the healing process. Unfortunately, there isn't too much data out there on microdosing for us to know whether or not it's an effective treatment for PTSD. That said, it doesn't seem like microdosing poses a large risk. So long as your father doesn't have a history (or family history) of psychosis (if he does, I would advise him to abstain from all psychedelics), there's virtually no risk from microdosing. At this point, we don't really know whether or not microdosing actually helps treat PTSD, but it's low risk and it might help, so why the heck not?

=======

As for your question about blindfolding, I think you might be asking about psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, which is a rapidly growing field of psychology. Where I live, ketamine and MDMA (both schedule I "psychedelic" substances in most states) are now legal in clinical, psychotherapeutic settings, and both drugs have been proven as effective treatments for PTSD and depression (ketamine, in particular, is very effective at reducing suicidal thoughts and feelings). However, it's worth noting that these drugs are only one facet of a patient's treatment. For MDMA, clients will first go in for a few standard therapy sessions without any drugs - the purpose of these introductory sessions is to build up a rapport between the client and the therapist. Then, the therapist will prepare the client for the drug session, describing the effects, the setting, the duration, and answering any questions about the session. There are also some boundaries laid down: for example, no sexual activity is allowed between the client and therapist. Then, the drug session occurs in a safe, clinical setting - typically blindfolded and with calm, instrumental music. The therapist remains with the client throughout the duration of the session. After the session, there will be one or more integration sessions, where the client will discuss the experience with the therapist.

The exciting news is that psilocybin is on-track to be approved for treating depression, PTSD, and anxiety (in particular, psilocybin has been demonstrated to help reduce anxiety in terminally ill people). There's been some recent research at John Hopkins University on using psilocybin in clinical settings, with very exciting results.

All of that said, these types of treatment options are orchestrated by a highly qualified professional, so I don't think it's wise to assume that giving someone some mushrooms and blindfolding them with music is going to be an adequate treatment for PTSD. There's so much more that goes into a treatment session. It's not just a pharmaceutical drug that you take - it's psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.

Having briefly covered that, there are still things you can do for your dad should he decide to explore psilocybin medicinally on his own. You might not be a professional psychotherapist, but you can be a good trip guide for him. You can watch over him while he has his experience and make sure he's comfortable and safe. One resource worth checking out is The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide by James Fadiman, PH.D. It basically reads like an instruction manual on how to be an effective trip guide for someone who is trying to get the most out of a psychedelic experience. Though the book focuses on being a trip guide for someone using LSD, the principles apply equally to psilocybin.

Take care, and good luck with your cultivation adventures!


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: redhandmat]
    #26816360 - 07/11/20 01:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Very good explanation of the Johns Hopkins studies. I’ve researched their 22mg / kg before and it is correct. The early studies used 3-off doses in a double blind scenarios: placebo, 20mg, and 30mg. From memory, the 30mg equates to approximately 5 dry grams! So yes, they weren’t messing around with microdose, but full blown psychedlic trip doses.

And those early studies were all geared around the mystical experience.

So in the days leading up to the trials, the patients were almost brainwashed with mystical type background information, to increase the likelihood of a mystical trip. And apparently the correlation was that the more mystical a trip was, then the more successful it’s effects on treating depression was.

If you work on your “set” in the week leading up to a trip, you can almost guarantee the style of trip you have.

But equally important in the trials, and this is the aspect I miss most (and hence why I’m obsessed with the shroomery), is the INTEGRATION phase, ie the talking about your trip experience in the days after the trip.

Good luck and take care
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHappyHigh
Stranger

Registered: 05/05/17
Posts: 892
Last seen: 20 days, 15 hours
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26816553 - 07/11/20 05:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I have bad ptsd and i micro dose between .3-.55, i've had a few freak out moments defiantly a few that had it been my first week micro dosing, i would not have know how to handle it and might have made the situation worse.
My my PTSD is from jail so all i have to do is see a cop car and my pulse shoots up my chest starts just hurting i feel every muscle in my body is ready for a fight or fright reaction, can be nuts.
But if you ease in to it start low and work your way up it becomes a everyday habit, you get use to the rushes of emotion and handling them becomes second nature even something for you to giggle at.
And since these change are felt so much more profound when on shrooms it helps me understand whats going through my mind when i'm off shrooms during those same interactions.


--------------------
Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths,
Enwrought with golden and silver light,
The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
Of night and light and the half light,
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineredhandmat
Dude


Registered: 05/09/19
Posts: 463
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: HappyHigh]
    #26816812 - 07/11/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

If I had PTSD I wouldn't microdose I think. At least not until I'm much better and have very good routines. I would take a very well prepared trip with a similar dosage as the John Hopkins studies a couple times a year (quality over quantity) . I would also take a trip as the one in the John Hopkins studies (emphasis on mystical and introspection in a safe environment)  and some in nature (to feel connected and see life in a new light. Very important that I prepare these trips with proper set,  setting, and sitter.

I would also combine it with daily meditation of around 20 minutes and Journaling. The reason is that I would want to be more aware of myself. Recognize the patterns surrounding my anxiety attacks, and how I can relax my body and not engage with my thoughts. Probably good to also develop daily routines to help me find comfort. I would avoid alcohol, drugs (especially stimulants, opiates and other stuff) , and even coffee sending on how it makes me feel.

Microdosing feels like it could add a rocky experience to an already rocky mind. I would wait till I felt more comfortable, but I confident and stable.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJudeSparky
Stranger
Male


Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 28
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: Mr.Christmas]
    #26816850 - 07/11/20 09:21 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I'll have to ask him about it in a right time. I just don't want him suffer from his PTSD anymore or at least lessen it. He tend to experience ptsd whenever he sees an Arab, and after the 4th of July, it happen again, because of the fireworks and stuff.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJudeSparky
Stranger
Male


Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 28
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: redhandmat]
    #26816871 - 07/11/20 09:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redhandmat said:
Quote:

Sucio said:
I like where you're coming from with the idea of covering his eyes and having him take mushrooms. You've probably seen pictures in articles from psychiatrists diving into the world of psychedelics to treat PTSD and depression.

No.

I wouldn't do it that way. I personally have zero clue what they're doing. How many grams of what strain are they using? What audio is playing? Why cover their eyes?

I have PTSD and what I personally do is whenever I start getting outrageously anxious, angry, and depressed; I take a nice little trip. The shit thing is that I feel like my psych knows what's about to happen and makes me not want to take the mushrooms but every time after the trip; I feel amazing. Maybe some other people with PTSD can chime in on this but the trips are never a fun experience. Usually lots of crying and deep meditation. Maybe taking them before getting to the point that I get to would prevent this?

Ask your father if he'd be comfortable trying different things such as micro dosing and such.




I am reading Pallans book and he mentions these studies. The most important of which are done by Dr. Griffiths from John Hopkins. But these are NOT microdosing studies. As far as I know you need a full o trip to start. The questions you are asking, you can find answers in the studies, in the book by pallan or just in this video. So just to give you some answers here:

Before the trip
Before they even have the trip, like the day (or longer) before the trip they explain a lot of things to the patients. These things revolve about accepting the trip, that wte they may see or experience they should go towards it and with the flow. They explain that it is important that you do not try to run from the scary things you may see and instead not fighting the trip. They also explain that they are in good and experienced hands, that they (the trip sitters) will be there for them and that they don't have to be afraid. They gibe them kind of "airplane emergency" guidelines. (you can find a copy online)

During the trip

As you mentioned the people tripping usually have something over their eyes and earphones on. The purpose of the eyeshades is so that the people tripping have an introspection trip. The trip revolves around them and their thoughts, feelings, ego, psyche etc. In the earphones its usually meditation music or sounds like these that make you calm and sort of set a mystic vibe. The dose is 22 mg pure psilocybin per 70kg body weight. They don't use dried mushrooms because that wouldnt be good in a study with the amount of the drug being studied varying from mushroom to mushroom. However, this is roughly equivalent to 3g dried mushrooms if my google search was right. During the trip its essential that the patient is calm and feel that they are safe. I would imagine this is doubly so for persons with PTSD.




I've watched the video and it's amazing! Sorry if I couldn't say much. I wanna say a lot, but I couldn't translate it properly in English.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJudeSparky
Stranger
Male


Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 28
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26816887 - 07/11/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Hello!

I think you should know that microdosing is not the same thing as tripping. Generally, the idea behind microdosing is to take a sub-perceptual dosage (that is, a dosage that's so small that the effects are practically unnoticeable). People generally microdose to a schedule - like once every three days, or something like that. When microdosing, you should be able to function as normal. If you're doing it correctly, you should simply be able to go about your daily life while microdosing.

People microdose for many different reasons. Some people do it because they feel generally more energetic when they do. Some people microdose to "lubricate the mind" for creative tasks - this was a popular idea in silicon valley among software developers. Others microdose for medicinal reasons, like for treating PTSD and depression.

I have one friend who attempted to treat her own PTSD using microdoses of mushrooms. She would take less than half a gram every three days and just go about her daily life. She said that every day, she would wake up and the very first thing she would think about in the morning was the traumatic event that started her PTSD. It would hang over her head every day, through most of her daily experiences. However, after microdosing consistently for a few weeks, she suddenly started to notice that her trauma was no longer the first thing she thought about every morning. This small, but subtle change grew, and she's dealing with it much better now.

The problem with that anecdotal story is that it's hard to tell whether it was the microdosing or some other change that she made in her life that started the healing process. Unfortunately, there isn't too much data out there on microdosing for us to know whether or not it's an effective treatment for PTSD. That said, it doesn't seem like microdosing poses a large risk. So long as your father doesn't have a history (or family history) of psychosis (if he does, I would advise him to abstain from all psychedelics), there's virtually no risk from microdosing. At this point, we don't really know whether or not microdosing actually helps treat PTSD, but it's low risk and it might help, so why the heck not?

=======

As for your question about blindfolding, I think you might be asking about psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, which is a rapidly growing field of psychology. Where I live, ketamine and MDMA (both schedule I "psychedelic" substances in most states) are now legal in clinical, psychotherapeutic settings, and both drugs have been proven as effective treatments for PTSD and depression (ketamine, in particular, is very effective at reducing suicidal thoughts and feelings). However, it's worth noting that these drugs are only one facet of a patient's treatment. For MDMA, clients will first go in for a few standard therapy sessions without any drugs - the purpose of these introductory sessions is to build up a rapport between the client and the therapist. Then, the therapist will prepare the client for the drug session, describing the effects, the setting, the duration, and answering any questions about the session. There are also some boundaries laid down: for example, no sexual activity is allowed between the client and therapist. Then, the drug session occurs in a safe, clinical setting - typically blindfolded and with calm, instrumental music. The therapist remains with the client throughout the duration of the session. After the session, there will be one or more integration sessions, where the client will discuss the experience with the therapist.

The exciting news is that psilocybin is on-track to be approved for treating depression, PTSD, and anxiety (in particular, psilocybin has been demonstrated to help reduce anxiety in terminally ill people). There's been some recent research at John Hopkins University on using psilocybin in clinical settings, with very exciting results.

All of that said, these types of treatment options are orchestrated by a highly qualified professional, so I don't think it's wise to assume that giving someone some mushrooms and blindfolding them with music is going to be an adequate treatment for PTSD. There's so much more that goes into a treatment session. It's not just a pharmaceutical drug that you take - it's psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.

Having briefly covered that, there are still things you can do for your dad should he decide to explore psilocybin medicinally on his own. You might not be a professional psychotherapist, but you can be a good trip guide for him. You can watch over him while he has his experience and make sure he's comfortable and safe. One resource worth checking out is The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide by James Fadiman, PH.D. It basically reads like an instruction manual on how to be an effective trip guide for someone who is trying to get the most out of a psychedelic experience. Though the book focuses on being a trip guide for someone using LSD, the principles apply equally to psilocybin.

Take care, and good luck with your cultivation adventures!




Yeah, I thiught it's that easy to do. Like assist them and stuff while they lay there. I thought the only thing that's missing is the questionnaire at the beginning when you're about to make them take the psychedelic, then another set of questions while they're on psychedelics.

And thank you for telling me about the microdosing I'll definitely ask him when he's cool with taking psychedelics.

And to be a tripsitter, you need to experience it at first. Dive in deep, absorb everything that it's teaching you and use that lesson to guide someone when they're having trouble finding the right path.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStaples
Stranger
Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 21
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: JudeSparky]
    #26826421 - 07/16/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I just wanna say for the love of god start out with a very small dose and work your way up gradually! The potential of utter psychological disaster is very real. If you just dive straight into the deep end immediately, you could make his PTSD even worse.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineredhandmat
Dude


Registered: 05/09/19
Posts: 463
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Can micro dosing calms PTSD? [Re: Staples]
    #26826494 - 07/16/20 08:21 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Staples said:
I just wanna say for the love of god start out with a very small dose and work your way up gradually! The potential of utter psychological disaster is very real. If you just dive straight into the deep end immediately, you could make his PTSD even worse.




This is a very valid concern. This si why I suggested meditation, working on your self awareness, and basically helping yourself mentally as much as you can. Well prepared trips! Dont just dive in like a moron.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   Amanita Muscaria Store Amanita Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Who has dosed one oz of shrooms here?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Cracka_X 11,599 142 10/29/20 03:31 PM
by MushroomMomo
* High dose tripping essentials
( 1 2 3 all )
Redo 11,722 55 06/23/04 04:46 PM
by hawk
* My highest dose, very strange and scary Grovesk8ter 1,511 10 03/24/05 12:40 PM
by mecreateme
* Help with a big dose calebtke 718 5 02/16/05 03:08 PM
by deadmoap
* Low-dose solo experimentation WhiskeyClone 4,345 11 06/29/02 08:55 PM
by
* Post deleted by Administrator
( 1 2 3 all )
PsilosKube 9,756 40 10/20/02 03:01 AM
by Zen Peddler
* Who enjoys very large mushroom doses? juicemonkey 6,034 17 09/26/02 12:11 PM
by nezshoo
* Shrooms Dose for only slight visuals! Need Tips!! hpnotiq 2,361 17 01/26/05 03:36 AM
by 13eetleJuice

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
337 topic views. 1 members, 44 guests and 30 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 12 queries.