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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
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Loc: Portland
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
#26828937 - 07/17/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Half the nation? How do you figure? He didn't even get half the vote. Less than 1/5 of the nation voted for him.
Besides, keep this in mind: Picture the average American, then recognize that half of all Americans are even dumber than that.
Forgive me. 49.5% of the nation. My inaccuracy is my shame. 
But honestly, Trump is going get 55%+ of the popular vote this year.
I'm WELL aware of how dumb (and yet still sincere), the average American is. My job has led me into over 10,000 homes over a dozen different states. I've had conversations with every aspect of America from poor to middle to upper middle to upper class on the left, right and center. I KNOW, intimately, what rural America looks like and what its people look like.
You are baselessly judging half our nation and I stand by what I said. In fact, I'll go further. It's people like you with pre-conceived notions of Trump supporters that have caused people like me to say fuck it and vote for the guy this year... something I DIDN'T do in 2016.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 12:56 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26828942 - 07/17/20 12:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Again, less than 20% of the nation voted for Trump. You're just pulling fiction out of your ass, much like Trump does.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
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Loc: Portland
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
#26828949 - 07/17/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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What I'm hearing from you is that Trump supporters are better at preforming their civic duty to vote.
I agree. Trump supporters are better at preforming their civic duty, period.
That aside, you're also assuming that the vast majority of non-voters would have voted against Trump if they cared to involve themselves.
You have absolutely no proof for that and yet you accuse me of making up fictitious points.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
#26828952 - 07/17/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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How does one support a political candidate? By voting or contributing money to the campaign. So, tell me....how did these other 100 million people who didn't vote support Trump?
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Vahn421
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
#26828960 - 07/17/20 01:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
How does one support a political candidate? By voting or contributing money to the campaign.
This is not an exhaustive list.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
#26828963 - 07/17/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have already invited you to provide an alternative way one could support trump. Are you going to do that? Or are you just going to say, "nah."
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
#26828967 - 07/17/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Using the protesters own logic against them, "spreading awareness" is supporting a cause.
But you can also have conversations and debates with others to share ideas. I know a lot of people that didn't vote that are passionate about politics. Presidential voting happens once every four years. We do a LOT in between that, most of that being talking to one another.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
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Loc: Portland
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
#26828974 - 07/17/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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In either case, when I said 50% of the nation voted for trump, I obviously meant 50% of voters voted for Trump.
And with the way America is trending, I think it would be foolish to assume that the number of non-trump supporters who didn't vote is higher than the number of trump supporters that didn't vote.
So in pragmatic theory, 50% of the nation supports trump.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
#26828975 - 07/17/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay, so you've made the claim. You have the burden of proof. Where is your evidence that 100 million people who did not vote advocated in favor of Trump?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil] 1
#26828985 - 07/17/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Being a Trump supporter means, at the very least:
1. One values honesty very little. 2. One doesn't value global perception of the U.S. 3. A propensity for personality-worship over merit-based judgment. 4. A tolerance for racism, sexism, misogyny, bullying, and pettiness.
One could just as easily say that being a Trump supporter means, at the very least:
1. One dislikes fake news 2. One prefers peace to war 3. A propensity for personality worship resulting from merit-based judgment 4. A tolerance for other points of view.
These are all subjective and really don't mean much more than saying "being a Trump supporter means you're a big fat poo poo head!"
We should stick to specifics rather than generalities.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
#26828988 - 07/17/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Trump lies all the time to the American people. To support him means that one is okay with being lied to.
News flash for Enlil. Almost all politicians lie.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26828991 - 07/17/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Trump lies every day to the American people. He is the biggest source of fake news. Trump hasn't withdrawn troops despite being able to do it with a phone call. Those are specifics.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil] 1
#26829000 - 07/17/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Where is your evidence that 100 million people who did not vote advocated in favor of Trump?
Before I answer the question, I need to back up.
Quote:
Less than 1/5 of the nation voted for him.
That's because children and prisoners can't vote. You know this. I know this. Let's be a little more intellectually honest, shall we?
Here are the numbers. 230 million eligible voters. 130 million voted. 62 million for Trump as opposed to 64 million for killary. That's closer to 27% of eligible voters that voted for the guy as opposed to Hillary's 28%. Let's not add the opinions of children or prisoners into this conversation.
So for the remaining 45% of eligible voters that did not vote, we obviously don't have any evidence and we never will, but PRAGMATICALLY and using the philosophy of rationalism, it's easy to assume that somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of that number prefer Trump in 2020.
So whether or not 40% of eligible voters are Trump supporters or 60% are, it doesn't really matter. My point is the same and nit-picking the exact numbers is a red herring distracting from my main point, so I'll say it again in different words so you can't toss another crimson fish my way:
Your pre-conceived judgment of a huge chunk of our nation (Somewhere between 40-60% of all eligible voters), due to the candidate they support is disgustingly reprehensible.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 01:22 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
#26829002 - 07/17/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: Your position of judging half the nation without even knowing what facts or ideas are floating around in their head is morally reprehensible.
Half the nation? How do you figure? He didn't even get half the vote. Less than 1/5 of the nation voted for him.
Now THAT'S what I call not arguing in good faith.
He didn't say half the nation voted for Trump, he said half the nation supported Trump.
Show me one poll where Trump only gets 20% approval.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
#26829006 - 07/17/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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All of that is ducking your responsibility here. You made the claim that half of the nation are trump supporters. That's your claim...not mine. If you think newborns can't be trump supporters, then you need to get your half from other people. I'm not the one making stupid claims that I can't support.
So, are you going to support your claim that half of the nation are trump supporters? Or are you going to admit you were wrong and revise your claim?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
#26829008 - 07/17/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: In either case, when I said 50% of the nation voted for trump, I obviously meant 50% of voters voted for Trump.
It was only obvious to those who argue in good faith.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil] 1
#26829009 - 07/17/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said:
What information does being told someone is a Trump supporter provide an observer? It provides them the information that they are a Trump supporter. That's it. No more, no less.
You're completely wrong here. Being a Trump supporter means, at the very least:
1. One values honesty very little. 2. One doesn't value global perception of the U.S. 3. A propensity for personality-worship over merit-based judgment. 4. A tolerance for racism, sexism, misogyny, bullying, and pettiness.
There are plenty more, but these are crystal clear at this point.
1. They all lie, some are just better than others.
2. I don't give a shit what some foreigners think or don't think about the status of the US.
3. Personality is one of the reasons why people vote in the first place. Obama was very likable, that helped him win.
4. Tolerance for isms is all we have today, otherwise we wouldn't even exist.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26829014 - 07/17/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Show me one poll where Trump only gets 20% approval. 
Approval and support are two different things. He can't claim support of nonvoters in the same proportion of voters just because. He needs data to support that claim. Many nonvoters are nonvoters because they are apathetic. Apathy is not support.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
#26829015 - 07/17/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: All of that is ducking your responsibility here. You made the claim that half of the nation are trump supporters. That's your claim...not mine. If you think newborns can't be trump supporters, then you need to get your half from other people. I'm not the one making stupid claims that I can't support.
So, are you going to support your claim that half of the nation are trump supporters? Or are you going to admit you were wrong and revise your claim?
Did you even READ my last reply before typing all that?
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 01:28 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26829019 - 07/17/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: In either case, when I said 50% of the nation voted for trump, I obviously meant 50% of voters voted for Trump.
It was only obvious to those who argue in good faith.
That's not what he said, though. Again, he's moving the goal posts, and you're pretending he isn't. I made a claim about trump supporters, and he said I was judging "half the nation." Implicit in this is that half of the population of America are trump supporters. This isn't even close to true, but he still wants to hold me responsible for judging half the nation.
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