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OfflineVahn421
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
    #26828056 - 07/17/20 12:56 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:
Putting people you never met, spome with or interacted with in any way, into a bucket then stating theyre all scum is the same logic as saying all blacks are ghetto.



Depends on the bucket.  If it's a bucket of their choosing, that choice is fair game for judgment.  Last I checked, which was admittedly years ago, no one was being drafted to the police force.





No one is being drafted into any political affiliation either. That literally makes every one of us game by your stream of logic. (I'm cool with it.)

I personally think ALL people are worthy of judgment or NO people are. I personally lean toward "all" but if you open that can of worms, you better be ready to take it when people judge you, too.


Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 12:57 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26828063 - 07/17/20 01:09 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone judges everyone.  That's not my point.  There is rational judgment and irrational judgment.  Judging a person based on his/her conduct/choices is rational to the extent that those choices give us information about a person.  Judging a person based on the color of skin they were born with is wholly irrational.

That, after all, is the comparison that meltdowner made.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
    #26828076 - 07/17/20 01:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Everyone judges everyone. There is rational judgment and irrational judgment




Agree.

Quote:

Judging a person based on his/her conduct/choices is rational to the extent that those choices give us information about a person. Judging a person based on the color of skin they were born with is wholly irrational.




Agree.

Quote:

That, after all, is the comparison that meltdowner made.




It wasn't the best example, but his *intent* was clear to me. You could replace his example with another one that involved conduct/choices and the result of his point would have been more poignant.


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Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 01:32 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26828081 - 07/17/20 01:36 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

...and completely worthless.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26828088 - 07/17/20 01:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That's harsh, man. Even if you don't agree fully there are easily nuances of truth in the point he's trying to make.


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InvisibleGuy1980
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26828176 - 07/17/20 04:10 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Judging a person based on his/her conduct/choices is rational to the extent that those choices give us information about a person. Judging a person based on the color of skin they were born with is wholly irrational.




Agree.




Yet you said...

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Being a Trump supporter in 2020 is like being gay in 1980. You have to "come out of the closet" and deal with a mountain of persecution.




So it's rational to judge someone based on the choices they make, yet choosing to support Trump is equivalent to being homosexual in a time where homosexuals were heavily persecuted?

I'm confused about this, it seems like you hold conflicting viewpoints.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
    #26828299 - 07/17/20 06:54 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

A better way to phrase your opinion would be to say "I think anyone who chooses to he a cop is scum."  Still extreme but at least it's clear.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: meltdowner]
    #26828372 - 07/17/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Capt bleach thinks jail is too dangerous for Paul Manafort but school is safe for my kids , the teachers and myself . Fuck that guy .


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26828438 - 07/17/20 08:38 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
That's harsh, man. Even if you don't agree fully there are easily nuances of truth in the point he's trying to make.



Not if you look closely.  The "point" he's trying to make is that I'm a hypocrite by judging people for being cops while calling out racism.  If you substitute the racist part of the comparison, his point is that judging people rationally is the same as judging people rationally.

How much value would that point have really created here?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: meltdowner]
    #26828442 - 07/17/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
A better way to phrase your opinion would be to say "I think anyone who chooses to he a cop is scum."  Still extreme but at least it's clear.



That is functionally equivalent to what I said.  People don't become cops involuntarily, so people who are cops have chosen to be cops.

I'll try to break things down a bit more with you in the future.  I shouldn't expect you to make these logical connections.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26828771 - 07/17/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Capt bleach thinks jail is too dangerous for Paul Manafort but school is safe for my kids , the teachers and myself . Fuck that guy .



Was Manafort the only person to be released from jail due to Covid?


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26828801 - 07/17/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I shouldn't expect you to make these logical connections.




Gosh, I'm learning more what I can and can't say every day. This is great!


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Guy1980] * 1
    #26828827 - 07/17/20 12:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Guy1980 said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Judging a person based on his/her conduct/choices is rational to the extent that those choices give us information about a person. Judging a person based on the color of skin they were born with is wholly irrational.




Agree.




Yet you said...

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Being a Trump supporter in 2020 is like being gay in 1980. You have to "come out of the closet" and deal with a mountain of persecution.




So it's rational to judge someone based on the choices they make, yet choosing to support Trump is equivalent to being homosexual in a time where homosexuals were heavily persecuted?

I'm confused about this, it seems like you hold conflicting viewpoints.




Let's break down the first quote again.

"Judging a person based on his/her conduct/choices is rational to the extent that those choices give us information about a person."

What information does being told someone is a Trump supporter provide an observer? It provides them the information that they are a Trump supporter. That's it. No more, no less. It doesn't mean they're evil, misguided or scumbags. You're gonna have to dig and ask questions to figure that out. Many Trump supporters are bright people, just like many anti-Trumpers are bright people.

Trump supporters come in all sizes and flavors. Now you can make some ASSUMPTIONS about that person (in the same way people make assumptions about gay people), but those assumptions are going to likely be wrong.

It is the IRRATIONAL, (not enough information), RESPONSE from others that connects the two ides of being gay and being a trump supporter together. It is OBSERVING HOW OTHERS REACT TO THE INFORMATION that ALL the patterns are the same: irrational judgment, fear, family and friends ostracization, loss of job, refusing to ask questions about the situation, etc...

In the end, judging someone JUST for being a Trump supporter and nothing else is pure ignorance at best and maliciousness at worst.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (07/17/20 12:03 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421] * 3
    #26828878 - 07/17/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:

What information does being told someone is a Trump supporter provide an observer? It provides them the information that they are a Trump supporter. That's it. No more, no less.




You're completely wrong here.  Being a Trump supporter means, at the very least:

1. One values honesty very little.
2. One doesn't value global perception of the U.S.
3. A propensity for personality-worship over merit-based judgment.
4. A tolerance for racism, sexism, misogyny, bullying, and pettiness.


There are plenty more, but these are crystal clear at this point.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26828885 - 07/17/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:

What information does being told someone is a Trump supporter provide an observer? It provides them the information that they are a Trump supporter. That's it. No more, no less.




You're completely wrong here.  Being a Trump supporter means, at the very least:

1. One values honesty very little.
2. One doesn't value global perception of the U.S.
3. A propensity for personality-worship over merit-based judgment.
4. A tolerance for racism, sexism, misogyny, bullying, and pettiness.


There are plenty more, but these are crystal clear at this point.




No. That's all assumptive bullshit. Like, to such a ridiculous degree.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26828896 - 07/17/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

No, it isn't.  Trump lies all the time to the American people.  To support him means that one is okay with being lied to.  Trump has made the nation a global laughing stock.  To support him is to not care about this.  Trump has never done anything deserving of his office except be a reality star and loud personality.  To support him is to approve of these traits.  Trump has proven himself to be reprehensible in terms of his conduct and beliefs.  To support him is to tolerate those reprehensible traits.

You can pretend I'm incorrect, but I'm not.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421]
    #26828904 - 07/17/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That’s pretty  accurate In my experience  . A Trump supporter that lives down the street from my mom has a giant sign that says
“. Katie from ( it lists her address) is a carpet munching demon slut . Then there are 30 others signs all pro  trump and anti liberal In this huge display of pathetic vulgarity in his yard .
  I stoped to take some pics one day and they ran outside screaming at me .
  Qanon nutters for sure .


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26828919 - 07/17/20 12:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No, it isn't.  Trump lies all the time to the American people.  To support him means that one is okay with being lied to.  Trump has made the nation a global laughing stock.  To support him is to not care about this.  Trump has never done anything deserving of his office except be a reality star and loud personality.  To support him is to approve of these traits.  Trump has proven himself to be reprehensible in terms of his conduct and beliefs.  To support him is to tolerate those reprehensible traits.

You can pretend I'm incorrect, but I'm not.




No pretending, here. Your position of judging half the nation without even knowing what facts or ideas are floating around in their head is morally reprehensible.


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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26828922 - 07/17/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Half the nation?  How do you figure?  He didn't even get half the vote.  Less than 1/5 of the nation voted for him.

Besides, keep this in mind:  Picture the average American, then recognize that half of all Americans are even dumber than that.



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Offlinechristopera
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Re: The hypocrisy on the part of the political left and Covid-19 [Re: Enlil]
    #26828931 - 07/17/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

He thinks children get to vote too.


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