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InvisibleGalvie_Flu
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Time Travel
    #2681228 - 05/15/04 04:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If it will exist in the future, then, theoretically, someone must have already gone back to the past, and fixed things to make the world better.


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Offlinewrong
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2681242 - 05/15/04 05:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

imagine how shitty the world would be without these theoretical heroes from the future
what if they made things WORSE though?!


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2681846 - 05/15/04 12:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why limit time travel to one world line? I think the multi-verse theory fits better with time travel.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2681860 - 05/15/04 12:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If the form of time travel most people think of will ever be invented, we would already know about it as someone surely would have gone into the past with it. However this would mean that the time travel machine or whatever would already be known before it was invented (on the changed timeline), and therefore maybe no one would be encouraged to invent it, meaning that that timeline ceases to exist, which would then cause that to repeat. And that's why I don't think it's possible in that sense.

However I think it's possible to mentally remote view to another location in time, but altering that period in time would not be.


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InvisibleGalvie_Flu
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Re: Time Travel [Re: deff]
    #2682105 - 05/15/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

if the Govt wants to really keep it top secret, they would go back in time and erase all evidence.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2682129 - 05/15/04 02:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

with reagaring time travel?

are you saying hte past still somehow exists now!

like say if I wanted to go back in time to when I first got laid, that moment would have to exist, right?

you can't go back to something that isn't there right?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2682438 - 05/15/04 03:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Methinks you attribute "the goverment" (whoever they are) with a level of competence never before demonstrated.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2683571 - 05/15/04 09:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There's one snag. It seems you can't use a time machine to go back in time to before the time machine was built. You can go anywhere in the future, and come back to where you started, but no further. Which rather neatly explains why no time travellers from our future have yet visited us -- because the time machine still hasn't been invented.

As soon as the first time machine is built and switched on I expect information, things, people will immediatly begin arriving from the future.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Jellric]
    #2683578 - 05/15/04 09:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's a paradox in the truest sense :smile:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Jellric]
    #2683643 - 05/15/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Close!

That's only a theory though, that says you can only travel back in time until the first time machine was invented and no futher.

As soon as the first time machine is built and switched on I expect information, things, people will immediatly begin arriving from the future.

I completely agree! One of my earliest theories concerning time-travel was that if it is ever invented we would IMMEDIATELY know about it. If there is only one timeline we would instantly know the complete breakdown of time...as people from the future started travelling back into the past.

For anyone who says "oh well they would make sure that no one in the past found out about timetravel"....I have only to mention Murphy's Law! If something can go wrong, it will go wrong. If people are coming from the future into our past, it is inevitable that something will go wrong at some point in the future which results in us (in the past) knowing about it!


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Time Travel [Re: trendal]
    #2683668 - 05/15/04 09:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's for that reason why I think mechanical time travel, as well as altering an existing timeline is impossible. But hey, I'm not stating it as fact or anything...


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2690401 - 05/17/04 09:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

poul anderson
andre norton
robert a heinlein
l sprague decamp
robert silverberg
& many, many other s.f. writers have written about time travel & paradoxes...
(me, i just want that ring with the snake eating its own tail...)


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2690500 - 05/17/04 10:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Time travel is highly regulated in the future. Time travel into the past is either not permitted altogether, or VERY highly regulated, as in.. no interaction whatsoever.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2690611 - 05/17/04 11:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

> If it will exist in the future, then, theoretically, someone must have already gone back to the past, and fixed things to make the world better.

One theory is that if time travel is possible, you could only go back to when the time machine was invented.

For example, lets say we can create a wormhole. One end stays on earth and the other end is sent at nearly the speed of light out into space and back. The two ends of the wormhole are now in different time frames. A person from the future can travel back through time to when the first wormhole was created, but they cannot travel further back in time because no wormhole exists futher back in time. Of course, wormholes are theory too, sooooo...


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2690728 - 05/17/04 12:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Time travel is a postulate that has the same merit as the postulate that we are evolving into something else than what we are genetically.

It is kinda goofy. We are the result of something that can retroactively be called evolution which summarizes all the genetic shifts in populations, after various events have happenned. Evolution only looks back, and it helps determine lineage.

Present and Future Time itself does not exist except as the essence and aggregate of freedoms, however, we can use time in equations since many physical processes customarily proceed at intervals according to design. Past time is history.

These intervals can be affected by relative motion approching light speed.

Otherwise the speculations are good fantasy.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2690981 - 05/17/04 01:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is interesting that scientists that once worked on the idea of time travel in secret are now comming out into the open. One scientist, Ronald Mallet is actually working on a time machine right now.

Here is what he proposes. According to general physical theory (this is an assumption I have based on what I've learned so far. I don't have any references so I could be wrong) when any 'object' travels faster than the speed of light relative to the rest of the universe that object will move backward in time. One way to get an object to move faster than the speed of light is to use areas of space that are twisting - such as the spinning area of space around a black hole. Objects moving at the speed of light in the same direction as space is spinning around a black hole will in effect be moving faster than the speed of light relative to the rest of the universe and will therefore begin moving back in time. Having a black hole in a lab is not possible so this idea is not very practical.

But there are other ways of getting space to spin. Lasers moving through space actually pull space along with it. Mallet's idea is to build a tunnel with multiple high powered lasers arranged in such a way as to form a vortex of sorts. The space inside this tunnel will actually begin to spin much in the same way the space spins around a black hole. Particles shot into the tunnel in the same direction as the spin of space will move faster than the speed of light relative to the rest of the universe. The particles will come out of the machine before they were put in.

Mallet has said that when he turns on the machine it should become immediately apparent whether or not he has been successful since if it works he should begin reading particles comming out of the machine that he hasn't even put in yet. Wierd.

Theoreticall he could recieve messages from as far into the future as the machine is able to stay operational. In other words if his machine were kept in an underground vault with a power supply capable of keeping the machine operational for a thousand years, we could recieve messages from a thousand years in the future.

Perhaps the messages we recieve from the future will be instructions on how to build a machine that will allow people, rather than particles, to move through such a machine.

But if he recieves particles out of the machine before he puts them into it, what happens if he forgets to put them into the machine in the future? Paradox...

For most people time is a linear one-dimensional thread that we travel along into the future. All the paradoxes that arise with the concept of time travel (i.e. the Grandparent Paradox or the particle paradox above) are only paradoxes when only one dimension of time exists.

The universe seems to conserve information - much like a well written computer simulation. For example according to quantum mechanics (and demonstrated in the lab via the twin slit experiment), the entire universe that YOU are not consciously aware of does not exist as a physical reality but rather as a set of various probabilities. When YOU become consciously aware of a part of the universe all the various probabilities collapse into one reality. In other words the universe chooses (or maybe YOU choose) one of the probabilities and presents it to you as 'reality'.

Perhaps time is no different. When a way to circumvent the current one dimensional linear mode of time is discovered (such as Mallet's machine) the universe will have to accomodate this new human view by expanding the one dimension of time into a non linear multi-dimensional form of time. A form of time in which the paradoxes present in the current perception of time no longer exist. The universe doesn't like to get caught with its pants down.

So maybe, just maybe when Mallet finishes his machine and turns it on we will all (globally in order to not create paradox) immediatley percieve time in a totally new way. Perhaps this new perception will free us of our insitence that time is real.

Here's a link on Mallet...

http://www.advance.uconn.edu/2001/010910/01091012.htm


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Shroomism]
    #2691029 - 05/17/04 01:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Time travel is highly regulated in the future. Time travel into the past is either not permitted altogether, or VERY highly regulated, as in.. no interaction whatsoever.




What about people or organizations not working under this regulation ?
I believe a good analogy would be cloning. It isn't permitted to clone humans but are you so sure there isn't someone working on it and then being capable of deploying that technology to, let's say, people paying to be cloned ?

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Galvie_Flu]
    #2694455 - 05/18/04 02:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If it existed in the future, someone would have traveled back in time and altered history. Then, the time machine would be invented again and someone would travel back in time and something else would have happened. The time machine would keep being invented untill someone goes back into the past and stops it from being invented. What this means is, time travel is impossible. Even if it did exist, it wouldn't.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Time Travel [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2694745 - 05/18/04 04:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

why don't you ask the poeple who claim to be able to time travel how time travel works.

as far as time travel through machines goes, you just blew my fucking mind source, i had no idea this was going on at the moment.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Time Travel [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2695123 - 05/18/04 08:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

it is not actually going on yet.
experiments are being funded perhaps, but the swirling of lights amounts to lots of smoke and mirrors (great hollywood style experiment design).
we will be exceedingly lucky if the slightest rift in dimensional integrity emerges from it.
or
maybe not so lucky.


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