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MycoWill
Stranger
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Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub 1
#26811870 - 07/08/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey all,
So I've been experimenting with growing cubes in the same tent I grow gourmets in. It's a 8x8 hydroponic tent, humidity is provided by a 5 disc in a tote that's outside of the tent and piped in. Exhaust is provided by a 6" inline fan in the bottom corner of the tent. Rh goes from 85-91% and Co2 ranges from 500ppm to 1200ppm but usually hovers around 800.
From what I've seen so far is the surface of the trays I put in the tent dry out really fast and I get one really good flush but terrible seconds and usually not thirds. And they (GT) grow very short and fat, they look almost like a king oysters.
My tubs look like a completely different strains, like normal golden teachers. But I'm getting 3-4 good flushes.
My question is, how can I get better performance from my trays? I love they way the grow, and I can tell you from experience they are extremely potent, 2g hit me over the head like a baseball bat when 3 usually don't affect me near that much. I'm getting extremely dense and heavy fruits, the literally seem just like king oysters, but I'd love to keep better surface moisture and get a decent 2nd and 3rd flush.
Anyone else have similar experiences? Any tips? The first two photos of my tent aren't great but they're all I have at the moment and give you any idea how the same strain looks so much different under different conditions. The third pic is from a tub of mine.


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FRUITS



Registered: 05/11/20
Posts: 50
Loc: United States of America
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: MycoWill]
#26812048 - 07/09/20 04:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Your set up and results are so rad! I’m in the process of setting up an Astro-Way inspired Martha currently.
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rickyswamps
Bad Apple



Registered: 11/08/18
Posts: 1,192
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: FRUITS]
#26812125 - 07/09/20 05:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd guess that at 90% RH you still get drying over time with open trays. The exhaust fan probably doesn't need to run very often or at all with cubes. Think about how much air exchange goes on in a mono and they grow fine.
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MycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: rickyswamps]
#26815238 - 07/10/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rickyswamps said: I'd guess that at 90% RH you still get drying over time with open trays. The exhaust fan probably doesn't need to run very often or at all with cubes. Think about how much air exchange goes on in a mono and they grow fine.
So 90 is too low, I wonder how they would fair at 95.
Well "fine" would be the subjective term here. There's obviously a huge difference in growth when the Co2 is much lower. I can't say 100% that they're better at a lower Co2 because that would entail testing I don't have the means to do. But from what I've seen so far that is the case from my observations, limited as they may be. And if you look at other mushrooms that are cultivated, they always do better in lower Co2 environments during fruiting. Sure oysters will grow in a mono, but they will grow much nicer fruits in a low Co2 environment.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: MycoWill]
#26815363 - 07/10/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MycoWill said:
Quote:
rickyswamps said: I'd guess that at 90% RH you still get drying over time with open trays. The exhaust fan probably doesn't need to run very often or at all with cubes. Think about how much air exchange goes on in a mono and they grow fine.
So 90 is too low, I wonder how they would fair at 95.
Well "fine" would be the subjective term here. There's obviously a huge difference in growth when the Co2 is much lower. I can't say 100% that they're better at a lower Co2 because that would entail testing I don't have the means to do. But from what I've seen so far that is the case from my observations, limited as they may be. And if you look at other mushrooms that are cultivated, they always do better in lower Co2 environments during fruiting. Sure oysters will grow in a mono, but they will grow much nicer fruits in a low Co2 environment.
So what are you saying? That you can’t have a nice cube grow in a mono? No offence but I like the look of my monos more than I do your trays.
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Roger Clemency
Smile


Registered: 03/23/20
Posts: 2,005
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26815394 - 07/10/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It seems like you're saying contradictory things with your last statement and what you posted in the OP.
Cubes do like fresh air but if they're drying out it's no good either.
Do you rehydrate your trays after the first flush?
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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panne cyanne
albino queen


Registered: 04/15/20
Posts: 145
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26815588 - 07/10/20 04:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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i suspect the real question here is, how do you decontaminate a tent from a trich outbreak. this goes for marthas also, or any variation.
all these tenty things work. until the contaminate.
tubs and bare rooms can be de contaminated. if you cant absolutely decontaminate every last thing in a lab. its a clock ticking on trich or treat.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: panne cyanne] 1
#26815772 - 07/10/20 06:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
panne cyanne said: i suspect the real question here is, how do you decontaminate a tent from a trich outbreak. this goes for marthas also, or any variation.
all these tenty things work. until the contaminate.
tubs and bare rooms can be de contaminated. if you cant absolutely decontaminate every last thing in a lab. its a clock ticking on trich or treat.
More of this fake news.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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panne cyanne
albino queen


Registered: 04/15/20
Posts: 145
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: Smartattack]
#26815982 - 07/10/20 08:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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well then, by all means pitch your tent smart. the tent assembly , isnt the trichy part.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: panne cyanne]
#26816134 - 07/10/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
panne cyanne said: well then, by all means pitch your tent smart. the tent assembly , isnt the trichy part.
My understanding of his post is that he is using the tent for fruiting and is not doing his lab work there as well. Trich spores in your inoculation area is obviously bad. Trich spores in your substrate and around your trays and tubs is a given.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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panne cyanne
albino queen


Registered: 04/15/20
Posts: 145
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: Smartattack]
#26816228 - 07/10/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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tents for fruiting works till one substrate gets trich, essentially contaminating all further grows.
those who have seen trich under a microscope realize that if you can see trich with the naked eye at all, you likely have thousands if not millions of spores in the immediate environment.
i know of no practical way to decontaminate a tent. some may get lucky a cycle or two. and its not just the tent, any air handling or humidity equip picks up spores also. frames of a tent if metal , cannot be easily bleached without damage. this would also include lighting fixtures.
im not presenting this in theory, ive used all kinds of containers and tents over the years. the tents and marthas are especially prone to this issue.
as said, they are cool, for a while, then they become expensive contam vectors.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: panne cyanne]
#26816234 - 07/10/20 10:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can reuse tubs that have been contaminated with trich, you can use a tent that has had trich in it. Trichoderma is everywhere, it's in your hair and on your clothes, it's mixed in with the dust particles floating around your house.
Gourmet grows catch contaminated bags and they still use the greenhouse post contamination. There's a big difference between growing in a tent that had a bad tray/bag and a place that has a persistent sporeload that is ever present, most people try not to grow under those conditions though. I wouldn't classify a tub or tent/greenhouse that has experienced a trich infection a persistent source of contamination.
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panne cyanne
albino queen


Registered: 04/15/20
Posts: 145
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#26816258 - 07/10/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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its everywhere indeed. but it can be defeated with good handling and good equip.
personally i rarely see it with my current methods. when experimenting with different grow contianers, especially tents and marthas, it was problematic.
i would offer and concede a difference between true pros and noobs in handling. absolute pros can get around anything. less experienced growers are likely to have dismal results after a cycle or 2.
i recall a thread somewhere where a mid skill grower with i think 2 marthas experienced an almost overnight trich blow out in a bedroom grow, causing him and his girlfriend to move out of the room and seal the door, until he could afford to decontaminate it later.
Edited by panne cyanne (07/10/20 11:31 PM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: panne cyanne]
#26816264 - 07/10/20 11:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I may have misunderstood, I thought you were saying that tents essentially become vectors of contamination and are therefore basically useless once you experience trich. That's not the case, just ask the guy's growing pans. If that's not what you were saying then my bad.
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panne cyanne
albino queen


Registered: 04/15/20
Posts: 145
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#26816275 - 07/10/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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if one trich outburst was the defeating factor anywhere we would all be cooked. in this case, my experience has shown me tents and marthas are far more prone to this phenom.
it doesnt take much my lab is about as sophisticated as it gets. years ago, i had a trich outbreak. after much inspection in a test tube rack , there was the thinnest almost invisible spec of trich, wich was contaminating the entire lab. upon discover trich vanished.
now imagine that thinnest of specs of trich, in a tent, or martha unseen.
ill admit , tents look cool, and are nice for air handling closed environments. yet ill never use one again if i got paid to do it.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: panne cyanne]
#26816279 - 07/10/20 11:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pointless for cubes but they are pretty handy for growing gourmet and exotic. Note to self, clean kit so that trich deposits aren't present on lab equipment.
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MycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26816287 - 07/10/20 11:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
MycoWill said:
Quote:
rickyswamps said: I'd guess that at 90% RH you still get drying over time with open trays. The exhaust fan probably doesn't need to run very often or at all with cubes. Think about how much air exchange goes on in a mono and they grow fine.
So 90 is too low, I wonder how they would fair at 95.
Well "fine" would be the subjective term here. There's obviously a huge difference in growth when the Co2 is much lower. I can't say 100% that they're better at a lower Co2 because that would entail testing I don't have the means to do. But from what I've seen so far that is the case from my observations, limited as they may be. And if you look at other mushrooms that are cultivated, they always do better in lower Co2 environments during fruiting. Sure oysters will grow in a mono, but they will grow much nicer fruits in a low Co2 environment.
So what are you saying? That you can’t have a nice cube grow in a mono? No offence but I like the look of my monos more than I do your trays.
I don't believe I said anywhere you cant have a nice cube grow in a mono. As I said in the original post, that wasn't a great example of a tray. It was the only pic I had.
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MycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26816291 - 07/10/20 11:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roger Clemency said: It seems like you're saying contradictory things with your last statement and what you posted in the OP.
Cubes do like fresh air but if they're drying out it's no good either.
Do you rehydrate your trays after the first flush?
If I was unclear I apologize. I dont see what contradiction I made though. I completely agree drying out is not good. Hence the purpose of why i made this thread in the first place, I was looking to see how others that cultivate in this manner avoid their trays from drying out. If they crank their humidity and have their humidifiers running more, or cut back on their FAE
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MycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: panne cyanne]
#26816296 - 07/10/20 11:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
panne cyanne said: i suspect the real question here is, how do you decontaminate a tent from a trich outbreak. this goes for marthas also, or any variation.
all these tenty things work. until the contaminate.
tubs and bare rooms can be de contaminated. if you cant absolutely decontaminate every last thing in a lab. its a clock ticking on trich or treat.
I can say from my experience, one tray of 7 got trich early on. I removed it and the rest were fine. Never contaminated. I was also very nervous of trich from what I read on here, but from my limited observations I would say it doesnt spread that easily to other tubs/trays even when in an open environment like a tent. Again, I am no expert as it'd take a lot more time cultivating in this manner to give a more educated opinion.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: MycoWill]
#26816313 - 07/11/20 12:13 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have to maintain it has nothing to do with whether or not trich spores are present in your tubs or trays, it is whether or not it has had time enough to take hold and cause issue. Everything I have seen indicates that trich will not get said foothold unless it is in your spawn already with a head start. Clean spawn, clean tub. This is fairly obvious for a couple reasons but the biggest is the fact that you can leave hydrated coir in a shit ass room for weeks without it blooming any nasties. Its no coincidence that once you added your spawn things miraculously turn green...because it was in the spawn.
Clean spawn, clean grows.
Im sticking to it, as a grower who puts out many clean tubs in a closet that has had several trich tubs neglected and left to do its things for days with lids open and the whole works. I dont even vacuum the fruiting room and I walk in there with shoes daily. However my flowhood room and lab stuff I treat differently.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me




Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 5,543
Loc: The Aether
Last seen: 5 months, 5 days
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: MycoWill]
#26816343 - 07/11/20 12:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd like to get back to the OP's original question.Quote:
My question is, how can I get better performance from my trays?
Right from the start.... The picture you provided has your trays in a tent growing along side your gourmet mushrooms... Correct? I don't grow gourmet mushrooms, so I don't know if those bags are waiting to fruit or are just colonizing. Either way, they are in bags. Consider that they are in a different micro climate altogether than your trays.... Different CO2 levels... and even different temperatures because the heat they are generating is being kept by the bags. This brings me to the trays... I agree with "PastyWhyte" in regards to MY monotubs perform better then your trays. Your question is valid! Why do monotubs perform better than the tents that you grow your gourmet mushrooms? First off.. Can you grow or are you willing to grow your gourmet mushrooms in trays? If the answer is "No", then you are comparing apples and oranges. I believe that higher CO2 levels and high humidity is key to your question. When I do monotubs, once I shift my tubs into fruiting conditions.... I LEAVE THEM ALONE. I may fan and mist my tubs for about 2 days to get them to start forming hyphal knots, but as soon as I see them forming... I stop. The holes with polyfill are enough to provide the gas exchange needed for beautiful fruits. I won't open my tubs until harvest time. This brings another aspect into the game.... TEMPERATURE! Lower temperatures, (in my experience), will result in "slower growth" but "beefier fruits", while normal to higher temperatures will result in "faster growth" and taller less dense fruits. I would consider EVERYTHING. If you truly want to get to the bottom of your question about performance... build another tent dedicated to your "exotic" mushrooms and try and recreate the micro climate of a monotub. Play with temperature and take notes. Keep us posted with your venture!
--------------------
AMU Q&A thread.
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MycoWill
Stranger
Registered: 01/26/20
Posts: 97
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: The shroomy 1]
#26816363 - 07/11/20 01:12 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The shroomy 1 said: I'd like to get back to the OP's original question.Quote:
My question is, how can I get better performance from my trays?
Right from the start.... The picture you provided has your trays in a tent growing along side your gourmet mushrooms... Correct? I don't grow gourmet mushrooms, so I don't know if those bags are waiting to fruit or are just colonizing. Either way, they are in bags. Consider that they are in a different micro climate altogether than your trays.... Different CO2 levels... and even different temperatures because the heat they are generating is being kept by the bags. This brings me to the trays... I agree with "PastyWhyte" in regards to MY monotubs perform better then your trays. Your question is valid! Why do monotubs perform better than the tents that you grow your gourmet mushrooms? First off.. Can you grow or are you willing to grow your gourmet mushrooms in trays? If the answer is "No", then you are comparing apples and oranges. I believe that higher CO2 levels and high humidity is key to your question. When I do monotubs, once I shift my tubs into fruiting conditions.... I LEAVE THEM ALONE. I may fan and mist my tubs for about 2 days to get them to start forming hyphal knots, but as soon as I see them forming... I stop. The holes with polyfill are enough to provide the gas exchange needed for beautiful fruits. I won't open my tubs until harvest time. This brings another aspect into the game.... TEMPERATURE! Lower temperatures, (in my experience), will result in "slower growth" but "beefier fruits", while normal to higher temperatures will result in "faster growth" and taller less dense fruits. I would consider EVERYTHING. If you truly want to get to the bottom of your question about performance... build another tent dedicated to your "exotic" mushrooms and try and recreate the micro climate of a monotub. Play with temperature and take notes. Keep us posted with your venture! 
Not quite sure of the first half of the post comparing gourmets to cubes, they just happen to both be in the tent at the same time but I'm not comparing them, when I made the reference to putting oysters in a mono that was just because I've seen people attempt to put blocks in a mono to raise RH during fruiting with poor results and was pointing out higher Co2 is to blame for worse fruits for that specific species.
I did not consider temperature. Thank you for that. So that makes me wonder what has a larger influence on tall, stemy fruits, higher Co2 or higher temperature. And I do the same with my monos, after hyphal knots appear and I put them to fruit I don't open them again until its time to harvest.
If it came off as I'm Mr tent, that's not the case. I currently have a wall on monos going, and producing canopies so thick you can't see a bit of coir. But, my experience from the potency of the tray grown fruits made me curious as to if what I believe may be better fruiting conditions (up for debate) are to blame. I think the next step is to innoc two tubs side by side, fruit one as I would any other tub, and put the other in the tent with the lid off and crank the RH to 95-99%, maintain Co2 levels below 1200ppm and compare yield and potency. What I do want to avoid is having to mist the trays numerous times a day to maintain surface moisture, as if that is what is necessary to get trays to work, I'd probably stick with monos. I was just hoping there may be a tent wizard lurking around that already knows the ins and out of tent cultivation.
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me




Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 5,543
Loc: The Aether
Last seen: 5 months, 5 days
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: MycoWill]
#26816368 - 07/11/20 01:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MycoWill said:
Quote:
The shroomy 1 said: I'd like to get back to the OP's original question.Quote:
My question is, how can I get better performance from my trays?
Right from the start.... The picture you provided has your trays in a tent growing along side your gourmet mushrooms... Correct? I don't grow gourmet mushrooms, so I don't know if those bags are waiting to fruit or are just colonizing. Either way, they are in bags. Consider that they are in a different micro climate altogether than your trays.... Different CO2 levels... and even different temperatures because the heat they are generating is being kept by the bags. This brings me to the trays... I agree with "PastyWhyte" in regards to MY monotubs perform better then your trays. Your question is valid! Why do monotubs perform better than the tents that you grow your gourmet mushrooms? First off.. Can you grow or are you willing to grow your gourmet mushrooms in trays? If the answer is "No", then you are comparing apples and oranges. I believe that higher CO2 levels and high humidity is key to your question. When I do monotubs, once I shift my tubs into fruiting conditions.... I LEAVE THEM ALONE. I may fan and mist my tubs for about 2 days to get them to start forming hyphal knots, but as soon as I see them forming... I stop. The holes with polyfill are enough to provide the gas exchange needed for beautiful fruits. I won't open my tubs until harvest time. This brings another aspect into the game.... TEMPERATURE! Lower temperatures, (in my experience), will result in "slower growth" but "beefier fruits", while normal to higher temperatures will result in "faster growth" and taller less dense fruits. I would consider EVERYTHING. If you truly want to get to the bottom of your question about performance... build another tent dedicated to your "exotic" mushrooms and try and recreate the micro climate of a monotub. Play with temperature and take notes. Keep us posted with your venture! 
Not quite sure of the first half of the post comparing gourmets to cubes, they just happen to both be in the tent at the same time but I'm not comparing them, when I made the reference to putting oysters in a mono that was just because I've seen people attempt to put blocks in a mono to raise RH during fruiting with poor results and was pointing out higher Co2 is to blame for worse fruits for that specific species.
I did not consider temperature. Thank you for that. So that makes me wonder what has a larger influence on tall, stemy fruits, higher Co2 or higher temperature. And I do the same with my monos, after hyphal knots appear and I put them to fruit I don't open them again until its time to harvest.
If it came off as I'm Mr tent, that's not the case. I currently have a wall on monos going, and producing canopies so thick you can't see a bit of coir. But, my experience from the potency of the tray grown fruits made me curious as to if what I believe may be better fruiting conditions (up for debate) are to blame. I think the next step is to innoc two tubs side by side, fruit one as I would any other tub, and put the other in the tent with the lid off and crank the RH to 95-99%, maintain Co2 levels below 1200ppm and compare yield and potency. What I do want to avoid is having to mist the trays numerous times a day to maintain surface moisture, as if that is what is necessary to get trays to work, I'd probably stick with monos. I was just hoping there may be a tent wizard lurking around that already knows the ins and out of tent cultivation.
Well, there is a someone I know, but he is not from this group or forum. I'll PM you with his info
--------------------
AMU Q&A thread.
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AtmozFear
just a shade of myself


Registered: 01/25/19
Posts: 1,032
Last seen: 1 day, 15 hours
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: FRUITS]
#26816622 - 07/11/20 06:51 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I use a small aquarium, filled with water and a water heater in it to keep humidity... works great!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Growing in a hydro tent vs a monotub [Re: panne cyanne]
#26816685 - 07/11/20 07:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
panne cyanne said: if one trich outburst was the defeating factor anywhere we would all be cooked. in this case, my experience has shown me tents and marthas are far more prone to this phenom.
it doesnt take much my lab is about as sophisticated as it gets. years ago, i had a trich outbreak. after much inspection in a test tube rack , there was the thinnest almost invisible spec of trich, wich was contaminating the entire lab. upon discover trich vanished.
now imagine that thinnest of specs of trich, in a tent, or martha unseen.
ill admit , tents look cool, and are nice for air handling closed environments. yet ill never use one again if i got paid to do it.
Ok Anne H 2.0
There's farms with wooden shelved fruiting rooms. and the wood is covered in trich. And it poses no problem.
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