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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26810983 - 07/08/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

.    Assuming what you report has been replicated experimentally by different groups in properly controlled experiments; the question is what is the most parsimonious theory to account for the results. it would seem epigenetics is more parsimonious than 'morphogenic fields'. May have been similar experiments with other organisms as well.
But of course the same consideration, seems to apply.

.  So Again I wonder: why do you want to believe in this odd theory, of 'morphogenic fields'?
If true what would it do for you?
Science is full of unanswered questions. It will never provide what people foolishly believe organized religion will give them, namely: certainty.
Which in any case is a two edged sword.
And in general why do folks always seem to want to add to their beliefs?
What is wrong their own inner nature?
And what is wrong with their, already existing, connection to Nature?

These are the sorts of questions, the "Tao Te Ching" seems to have posed hundreds or thousands of years ago. The "Tao Te Ching" seems more profound than most of what has followed.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tao+te+ching+free+pdf&t=hk&ia=web


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26811146 - 07/08/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

To model anything in the real world using atoms, molecules, crystals, liquids, gases (forms with mass), electromagnetic energy, etc.,
I am pretty sure that some morphogeninc aspects will be in the computations:
to allow for incidental static electric field conduction
to render relationships between the linear distances between forms, and
to affect orientation and other electromagnetic responses.
patterns will be observed changing as proximity shifts and as fields of energy change.

those are enough to provide complex 3-d morphogenic form and movement, and that in turn can guide other content in the system in a predictable way.

I see it more as the baseline, resonant fields' effects are integral to all systems, but this is as hard to describe as the path that lightning takes through the air.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26811311 - 07/08/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I know there is a fair bit of disappointment in the meaning of Kirilian photography, but if you look at it you can see that the photo  is exposed by energy that passes through the form, and the field of energy passes beyond the form as well creating a kind of field interference.

https://doorofperception.com/2015/08/kirlian-photography/

Kirilian photography shows one kind of specific field transmission that takes a particular shape due to the form it energizes and affects the space around it in a particular way.

what we are seing in 2-d is also happening in 3-d, and these photos are really blurry smears of patterns that are occuring at a higher frequency than can be resolved in those exposures.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26811688 - 07/08/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

So the field/grid/morphogenic field reacts to the person by their signature projected to the external of that being.. everythimg alive has this.. it's called the power of attraction..

The imprint of the being onto the outside world..


Edited by BrendanFlock (07/09/20 02:55 PM)


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26811696 - 07/08/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I also think that The Krilian photography is showing the broadcast of electromagnetism.. except at a level lower and a level higher than our normal sense perception


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26812090 - 07/09/20 04:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

yes, it is an artificial projection of fields by introducing electrons that would not be in the system, but some fields are already in the system, and field effects are seldom zero.

we just do not have a very good sense about the shapes of these things, although we can feel water currents with our body as fleeting localized pressures, and that gives a bit of a clue regarding the abstract forms that flex and bend continuously as matter in the universe impinges on other matter by proximity.

to better conceive of it, consider the propositions in the book FlatLand as relates to the appearance of higher dimensional figures in a lower dimensional universe.
  HERE IS THE BOOK http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/201


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26812359 - 07/09/20 08:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Stevie Wonder Lyrics
"Superstition"

Very superstitious, writings on the wall,
Very superstitious, ladders 'bout to fall,
Thirteen-months-old baby broke the lookin' glass
Seven years of bad luck, the good things in your past

When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition ain't the way

Very superstitious, wash your face and hands,
Rid me of the problem, do all that you can,
Keep me in a daydream, keep me goin' strong,
You don't wanna save me, sad is my song

When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition ain't the way, yeah, yeah

Very superstitious, nothin' more to say,
Very superstitious, the devil's on his way,
Thirteen-months-old baby broke the lookin' glass,
Seven years of bad luck, good things in your past

When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer, superstition ain't the way, no, no, no


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: laughingdog]
    #26812403 - 07/09/20 09:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I highly recommend reading flatland before you die


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: laughingdog]
    #26813978 - 07/09/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Epigenetic couldn't have anything to do with it because the following rats were not offspring. If you are interested in these examples I recommend you watch the JRE podcast for those, or something else, maybe you could even read the original research papers.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26814637 - 07/10/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

https://vp.nyt.com/video/2020/07/09/87387_1_09tb-seasquirts-video-10_wg_1080p.mp4

sea squirt development based upon near neighbor cell signaling - a simple case of multicellular development - already a very complex bouquet of near neighbor effects.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26814646 - 07/10/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ok. Doesn't explain anything about different rat specimens. :cookiemonster:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26814713 - 07/10/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
The part where they talk about morphogenetic fields and all the research that supports it is only like 1 hour. Well worth the watch from the 10min mark on ward. The phenomenon that has mostly been studied is animals like rats learning a particular thing faster than they should. The latter animals tested are quicker to learn than the first ones even on the other side of the world. The idea is pretty much that there is a field where the rats and other animals pick up on things, because they resonate in it or something.
I can look up the particular examples later if I have time.




learning facilitation tests with rats are difficult to discern. Usually something else is going on.

some factors like "scotophobin" which accumulates in brains of rats when they are conditioned to hate light, affect the learning of rats being trained to hate light without as many shocks as the group from which scotophobin was extracted.

the experimenters were trying to prove that memories were encoded in RNA sequences.
not enough is known about learning in a basic way to determine how proximate fields affect, however, we do know that most animals are attracted or impressed by symmetry which is like a standing wave, and that when rendered as brainwaves may produce some very interesting standing wave arrangements.

so about the rats, not too much.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26814817 - 07/10/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

13:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=610&v=ZklRSn92ek4&feature=emb_title

The offspring of the rats learned the maze faster, but so did other rats not descended from the original parents. Unfortunately, it appears that this has not been researched in a long time. At least there is nothing more on Sheldrake's homepage, where I would expect to find all research on the rats. Here is what it says on his website about these rat experiments: https://www.sheldrake.org/essays/rat-learning-and-morphic-resonance


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26814913 - 07/10/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Rupert is too speculative - the experiment was not conclusive, nor even well conceived


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Dynamic Patterns in Water as Analogue Models - and discussion about morphogenetic fields [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26815576 - 07/10/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Form is a distraction from energy.
The lies from your senses the enemy.
Cages of fractal circles size defined.
Our interactions where the edges combine.

No matter the shape an object has a sphere.
Its this energy that allows now to be here.
At the outermost edges of our very conciousness.
You will find the innermost limits of the Qauntum scientists.

A circle can never be broken.
For even the pieces know why they've been chosen.
Soothing our craving for stability.
With fragments we construct an impossibly self resolved objectivity.


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Just a fool on the hill.


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