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Offlinesauroman1
Emrys

Registered: 03/22/14
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New and safer reversible MAOi’s?
    #26799022 - 07/02/20 10:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I have seen trip reports of antidepressant moclobemide used to substitute natural MAOI’s for oral DMT or mushroom trip potentiation. But maybe there are newer and safer reversible MAOi’s?

Since I had been diagnosed with mental illnesses and was taking antidepressants over many years I could ask my doctor to prescribe me MAO-A antidepressants which are used as last resort when SSRI and other drugs fail. Of course I'm aware there must be tyramine in diet restriction to avoid dangerous pressor effect . But from what I read no significant rise in blood pressure occurs when moclobemide is taken with amines such as tyramine. 
It would be great find safer RIMA MAOI’s that would minimally restrict diet since I’m taking brewers yeast powder every day. What are typical dosages of synthetic MAOI’s in combination with triptamines? BTW SWIM plans to take not typical sources of tryptamines -  p. azurescens and extracted spice from p. brachystachys.


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"You come from realms of unimaginable power and light, and you will return to those realms.” ― Terence McKenna


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Invisibleopenmind
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,878
Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: sauroman1]
    #26799601 - 07/02/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

What is wrong with harmine, harmaline, or Tetrahydroharmine ?

They're all known to be safe and reversible.



If you want to work with any of the reversible monoamine oxidase inhibitors, you can just skip taking your yeast for the day.





-OM

.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: openmind]
    #26799763 - 07/02/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You can use any reversible inhibitor of MAO-A, Harmine, Harmaline, or Moclobemide. THH doesn't inhibit MAO-A.

You don't have to avoid anything dietary, not even your yeast.

Personally i'd recommend Harmalas over Moclobemide, as they offer more than just MAO-A inhibition, but Moclobemide can be good too.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: Sabnock]
    #26799770 - 07/02/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Dosage wise, 180 to 200mgs of Harmala alkaloids, or 150 to 300mgs (preferably 300mgs) of Moclobemide. Go a bit low on the Tryptamines to start with, due to possible potentiation. Also make sure to separate the Harmalas or Moclobemide and the Tryptamines, take the Harmalas/Moclobemide, and about an hour later take the Tryptamines, works perfectly.


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OfflinePsion
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Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: Sabnock]
    #26800670 - 07/03/20 03:39 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

lol, i found 200 mg a bit much of harmalas hcl alkaloids for me, personally, but everyones milage varies. that said, man does the hcl stuff rock compared to the raw seeds. way more predictable, way more comfortable. didn't get any nausea or vertigo from it, but oh man did i get tracers. so many tracers. x-x

think i'll try around 160 mg next time.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: Psion]
    #26801345 - 07/03/20 11:56 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psion said:
lol, i found 200 mg a bit much of harmalas hcl alkaloids for me, personally, but everyones milage varies. that said, man does the hcl stuff rock compared to the raw seeds. way more predictable, way more comfortable. didn't get any nausea or vertigo from it, but oh man did i get tracers. so many tracers. x-x

think i'll try around 160 mg next time.




Yeah i liked 180 to 185mgs of Harmalas personally, but i go for heavy dosages of Harmalas usually, so 200mgs is a nice strong dose.


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Offlinesauroman1
Emrys

Registered: 03/22/14
Posts: 204
Loc: Shangrila
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: Sabnock]
    #26804775 - 07/05/20 07:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks. I did think about getting  100 grams of syrian rue and acacia rootbark but don't want risk getting caught. Getting prescription drugs from doctor is better option if possible to convince him to prescribe. Moreover it's easier to calculate dosage and you know that it is just pure MAOI.


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"You come from realms of unimaginable power and light, and you will return to those realms.” ― Terence McKenna


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: sauroman1]
    #26804784 - 07/05/20 07:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well shoot for Moclobemide if possible, or another RIMA. Don't go the irreversible MAOI route, go for reversible inhibitors of MAO-A.


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Offlinesauroman1
Emrys

Registered: 03/22/14
Posts: 204
Loc: Shangrila
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: Sabnock]
    #26810686 - 07/08/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Sure. Reversible ones anyway are probably more likely to be prescribed as they are safer in general.
Another problem is that I was diagnosed recently with schizoprenia and taking quetiapine but it's mild and not hearing voices, I need drugs for insomnia. I need to have good reason for doctor to prescribe MAOi antidepressants instead of more popular SSRI's or antipsychotics. Diet dangers are not so bad. They are still reserve them as a last line of treatment
But depression was and is now serious problem for many years so I will need drugs not just for ayahuasca and still have to wait shrooms to selfmedicate.


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"You come from realms of unimaginable power and light, and you will return to those realms.” ― Terence McKenna


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: New and safer reversible MAOi’s? [Re: sauroman1]
    #26810960 - 07/08/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sauroman1 said:
Sure. Reversible ones anyway are probably more likely to be prescribed as they are safer in general.
Another problem is that I was diagnosed recently with schizoprenia and taking quetiapine but it's mild and not hearing voices, I need drugs for insomnia. I need to have good reason for doctor to prescribe MAOi antidepressants instead of more popular SSRI's or antipsychotics. Diet dangers are not so bad. They are still reserve them as a last line of treatment
But depression was and is now serious problem for many years so I will need drugs not just for ayahuasca and still have to wait shrooms to selfmedicate.




As far as insomnia goes, try getting a prescription for a blood pressure medicine, like maybe Clonidine or Tizanidine. Clonidine is longer in duration and usually helped me sleep through the night, Tizanidine lasts about 4 hours so sometimes i have issues staying asleep but Tizanidine is by far the more powerful sedative, i take between 2 to 4 to 8mgs, depending on if i have CYP1A2 inhibition going on (which can potentiate dosage, as well as lengthen duration of the Tizanidine) right before eating a meal at bedtime, food seems to help it kick in better but for my gf it kicks in just fine without eating, apparently, and i get knocked tf out, it's the sleep medicine i've stuck with for almost 10 years now, though i do also take some Robaxin (Methocarbamol) with it as well, but that may be unnecessary.

As far as something like schizophrenia goes, i'm curious if pure Limonene or Lemon essential oil (10 drops of either, in a capsule, once or twice a day, the effects build up over a couple or so weeks), would do anything for you for that, Limonene has agonism at the Adenosine A2A receptor, which can in turn apparently lower activity at the Dopamine 2 receptor, which anti-psychotics are generally Dopamine 2 antagonists. Lemon EO contains Limonene, but also has other terpenes, like Alpha-Pinene for example, which can inhibit Acetylcholinesterase to some degree and on the wikipedia page for Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors it says "There is some evidence to suggest that AChEIs may attenuate psychotic symptoms (especially visual hallucinations) in Parkinson's disease.", and that it may be useful to "treat cognitive impairments in patients with schizophrenia. There is some evidence to suggest efficacy in treating positive, negative and affective symptoms." Limonene also activates the Serotonin 1A receptor which can provide some anti-depressant and anti-anxiety effects as well.

As far as the MAO-A inhibitors go though, maybe tell the doctor that you've been doing some reading on MAO-A inhibitors and because of their lessened risk of side-effects that you would prefer to try something like Moclobemide instead of SSRI's because SSRI's do have a lot of side-effects and it can be really hard for people to come off of them without feeling the need to relapse and go back on it, SSRI's also seem to come with sexual/libdo-related side-effects which Moclobemide and other MAO-A inhibitors do not have. However, depending on where you live and the laws where you live, you may be able to find Moclobemide online without a prescription (at an online pharmacy) and have it shipped to you, that's how i've gotten mine because here in the US Moclobemide isn't approved as a medicine.

Though i do recommend checking out the Syrian Rue or Harmala extracts, i'm pretty sure they're only illegal in Australia, Canada, possibly France, and are listed as a medicinal plant in Finland meaning one would need a "prescription" for it which is weird lol, but other than that i think Harmalas/Rue/Caapi are perfectly legal/unscheduled everywhere else, do be sure to check your laws though. As far as Acacia or Mimosa root goes, it's worth trying to buy and have it shipped to you, even though DMT is illegal, and sometimes plants can be confiscated at customs, at least here in the US, plenty of people get their root just fine all over the world, i doubt you'll get in trouble for it so long as you don't get caught with it on you and you don't mention it to anyone, you won't get in trouble for ordering it online, at least in smaller quantities (like not kilos of root lol).

With that said though, it's generally advised that people who have or who may be predisposed to schizophrenia not try Psychedelics, because it could make matters worse, but you say it's mild, but overall it's your call. If you do proceed, just make sure to be cautious and safe and follow harm reduction guidelines and if you have someone who can act as a sitter to be there with you (at least in another room so they don't bother you but are there if you need them) then it's a good thing to have a sitter for your first few times or so. It may also be worth including some Lemon Balm tea (3 to 4.5 grams of dried leaf) in with your Psychedelic of choice to help take the edge off a bit during the come up and help relax you a bit more. Or alternatively, have a benzo or anti-psychotic nearby as a "trip killer" in case you need it.


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