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Enkidu
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Dmt extraction 1
#26810918 - 07/08/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have 88g of powder MHRB in a glass jar
Going to add 600ml water
Then add 60g lye
Then add 100ml naptha or so before letting sit for a day and separating the naptha tomorrow
Should i add some vinegar and salt with the water or is it pointless? Was wondering if it might help break down the bark.
This look good to anyone experienced ?
Shout out to Northerner for all the help with dmt and to Pandemoon for clarification on how easy and simple this process can be
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Pandemoon
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26810978 - 07/08/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can add salt, as it helps to push the alkaloids into the non-polar solvent. But it's not needed.
Vinegar is not needed at all. It would be counter-productive, as it fights and reacts with the lye. Both the acid from the vinegar and the base from the lye would neutralize each other.
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Enkidu
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Awesome, thanks man
I have 176g so im going to split it into 2 extractions
Ill try this one no salt and add salt for the next batch and see if i notice a difference,
Then ill be working with shredded bark next and not powder
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Pandemoon
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26811007 - 07/08/20 01:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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The only difference I noticed with using salt is that with salt it needs less pulls in total to get all the dmt out.
The yield should be identical. But you might need only two or three pulls, instead of four or five.
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Enkidu
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Gotcha, so really not a big deal
Ill try it out
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Bloomer


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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26812357 - 07/09/20 08:38 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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You should do another experiment - two jars; one where you first extract the DMT with three sessions of near-boiling vinegar water, reduced into one jar; then separate the steamed bark into another jar and proceed to add lye and pull from each. This could demonstrate how efficient an A/B is, or isn't, depending on how much DMT you're able to extract out of the spent, steamed bark.
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
#26813284 - 07/09/20 04:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe ill try with this bark i need to shred up.
Do you normally remove the bark for a/b? You want to see how efficient it is at removing the dmt before the extraction?
Was also wondering if it made a difference to have the dish in the freezer before i put my first pull into it or not
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26813319 - 07/09/20 05:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nevermind, read the answer to that question.
I guess ita better to leave the dish warm if doing multiple pulls to prevent the crystals from crashing out prematurely
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26813848 - 07/09/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just did a pull but looks like nothing was even in it.
Looks super clear and not cloudy at all, i remember before as soon as it hit the glass it clouded up
Trying to precip off some naptha now
Might just put this first pull in the freezer and see if it produces anything and if not, recycle the naptha and try for some warm pulls
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26814414 - 07/10/20 06:32 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well i got some nice white crystals that formed but doesnt look like much is in there
Wondering if i should add some more lye to my solution and do a warm pull
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Pandemoon
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26814640 - 07/10/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Warm naphtha will pull more at once, but it will also pull more of the unwanted fats, oils, tannins. So the crystals will be more yellow. No bad thing, though, might be worth a try.
With my extractions, the second pull's yield is always bigger than the first. 
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Enkidu
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Hmm, maybe ill wait for this to finish in the freezer and re-use the naptha for another cold pull
See what i get and go from there
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26816574 - 07/11/20 05:51 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Every extraction I've ever done I've agitated the solution multiple times by stirring or turning over about half hour or so before pulling.
I'm not aware of any no stir/one stir tek that works effectively. Am I missing something here?
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Enkidu
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Yeah i spent a good deal of time agitating it
Probably about 5 times over the course of a day
Maybe i didnt spend enough time, i do a figure 8 sort of motion
Once the naptha catches them, are they staying? Could you potentially swirl it around all day then let it sit a whole day and the dmt wont be released from the naptha back into the soup right?
Its been about 32 hours in the freezer, theres some crystals its just a real small yield, im guessing less than 100mg
im thinking about either removing it tonight or tomorrow morning then doing my second pull
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26816584 - 07/11/20 06:05 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I usually agitate it for about 5 minutes, let it sit 5 minutes, repeat.... Do that about 4 times then pull it.
Not sure why you're not getting a result man. Did you evap the solvent down a bit? Might help. That's a lot of solvent for such a small amount of bark.
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Enkidu
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I need to get a more precise pipette
I set it out under a fan but not long
Figured 100 ml in my dish it would be pretty well spread out
I mixed it like 4 or 5 times over the course of a whole day. Ill try mixing it back to back then pulling
You do it warm or cold ?
You think i should try adding some salt?
Maybe this next pull will yield more
Ill just keep trying till i get it out
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26817638 - 07/11/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I add salt, just to add a bit with the ionization. Dunno if it really helps. Chemistry says it should.
Heat can be a double edged sword and you need to use just the right amount if you are going to use it.
As you stirred properly a bunch of times that's probably not the issue.
I dunno hey. Maybe bunk bark. I should just come over and help you out mate.
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Shenmue
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Everyone extracts dmt differently. You should read some teks, watch some videos then go for it. You'll end up doing things your own way like everyone else.
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Shenmue
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Shenmue]
#26817667 - 07/11/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here's a recent post with some videos and information. Who knows maybe it'll be helpful. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26790194/fpart/1/vc/1
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Enkidu
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Quote:
Northerner said: I dunno hey. Maybe bunk bark. I should just come over and help you out mate. 
Bahaha, hey anytime.
I might add some salt if this next pull doesnt produce
Could be the bark
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Shroomboofer
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Quote:
Pandemoon said: You can add salt, as it helps to push the alkaloids into the non-polar solvent. But it's not needed.
Vinegar is not needed at all. It would be counter-productive, as it fights and reacts with the lye. Both the acid from the vinegar and the base from the lye would neutralize each other.
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Acid can be helpful to make the DMT water soluble and pull it out of the bark and into solution. Then the lye will drop it out into freebase. Salt doesn't hurt and can only help. I'd use noniodized salt.
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Enkidu
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What like vinegar bath to start?
Guess i read a lot of people saying its not needed.
Got pull one out of the freezer and drying. Got the naptha in for a new pull. Added some salt.
The shit in my jar is super fucking thick
Maybe too much bark for the water and size of the jar?
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26818934 - 07/12/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also i tried to stir the naptha and it sisnt look like it even broke the top at all.
I ended up putting the lid on and doing the figure 8 swirling
Going to wait till my dish is ready and ill mix it 4 times or so and do a pull, see how it looks
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Pandemoon
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26819003 - 07/12/20 09:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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The naphtha floats always on top and hardly mixes with the aqueous solution.
It's the black water that you have to mix/stirr. The more water comes in touch with the naphtha plane the better.
If the water-to-bark ratio is too dense you can always add more water later (and of course the respective ammount of lye).
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Enkidu
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I got it all in a quart jar right now, dont think i have any bigger jars
I could mix it up real well then sludge half of it into a second jar? Probably make a huge mess
Maybe these next pulls will get me something decent
Had the glass out of the freezer for about 6 hours in an ac room with the ceiling fan on. Tempted to scrape it and taste a bit
My mullein wont be here for a few days but i habe some mugwort i think and passion flower
Thought i read to let it dry for a whole day after its out of the freezer
Curious to see what pull 2 will yield
Thats interesting about the naptha, i guess i thought it mixed in then slowly separated out
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26820043 - 07/12/20 07:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well heres what i got

Seems pretty clean
Was some oil though, that normal or is that unwanted residue?
Should i re-x this?
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26820048 - 07/12/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Too little to bother re-xing really. It's fine how it is, just a little tannin.
Hopefully see more on your next pull. Fingers crossed for you mang.
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Enkidu
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Thanks man, about to stir her up right now over the next hour or two and do a pull
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26820226 - 07/12/20 10:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well i went to do a pull and my naptha was cloudy as fuck, when i sucked it up the shit looked red/ blackish
So i put it back in and didnt do a pull yet
Not sure why its so dark?
First pull was clear as fuck
Wasnt sure if maybe it needs to settle a bit or will i need to pull and re-x it to get rid of whatever is in there..?
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26820371 - 07/13/20 01:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Might have leached out tannins or even sucked a bit of the basic solution... Did you use heat?. Maybe just let it settle a good while. The spice won't migrate back to the basic solution. No rush man.
Buy a pipette already. They're like $3, pump handle will cost you 10 but last many years if you grease it.
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Enkidu
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Nope, no heat
Is there something i can do to it? Add more salt or lye or something?
Or will it clear up on its own..?
Thia morning looks just as cloudy
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26820498 - 07/13/20 05:52 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pull it and freeze it man, see what happens.
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Enkidu
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Alright will do
Is this what an emulsion is or is this something else?
Be nice if i knew why it happen, maybe swirling too hard or something?
Wondering if i should try an a/b extraction with the rest of my powdered bark
Heard some people like working with shredded more so be cool to try shredded out
Wondering if i should freeze and thaw it a few times in some vinegar
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26820541 - 07/13/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Idk maybe i fucked this one up. I added more salt and lye and stirred it and noe the shits black as night, cant even differentiate between layers
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26820546 - 07/13/20 06:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just leave it. Let it settle... No rush.
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Enkidu
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Alright will do. Its already clearing back up to its original cloudy as fuck
Ita 9am here now, should i just leave it till tonight and try a pull or dont meed to wait 12 hours?
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26820613 - 07/13/20 07:52 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd give it a few hours at least mate. It's not going anywhere and if it was locked in emulsion even more will come out.
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Enkidu
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Alright ill just let it sit the better part of the day
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26821083 - 07/13/20 12:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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So this is what the pull looks like

Not sure what to do with my soup, add new naptha and try for another pull?
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26821241 - 07/13/20 02:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Looks like you're gonna get yellow DMT. 
Yes, pull it again. Have another go.
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Enkidu
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Well i guess yellow dmt would be better than no dmt
Any idea what caused this?
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26821527 - 07/13/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I dunno man, theres a lot variables. There's nothing wrong with yellow spice either, it's just a tiny bit of tannin in there. Still does the same trick.
I've done the same thing to the same bark and got goo one time and fluffy snow globes the next, both from yellow looking solvent. There's something to do with temperatures, soak times, solvent volumes and possibly even freeze times and temps that makes these variables so hard to quantify. The more you do it the more you get how it works.
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Enkidu
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Gotcha, ill just keep experimenting i suppose and see what happens
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26821694 - 07/13/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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That shit in my freezer does not look right
Do i just re-x the goo ?
Looks like its gonna be a bunch of red oily ass goo
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Icon
Bloomer


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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26821917 - 07/13/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said: I got it all in a quart jar right now, dont think i have any bigger jars
I could mix it up real well then sludge half of it into a second jar? Probably make a huge mess
Quote:
Enkidu said: Wondering if i should try an a/b extraction with the rest of my powdered bark
Yes, you should try an A/B tek, specifically the q21q21 because it's a dry A/B. I know exactly how you feel in that first quote, stressing out looking for a big enough jar to contain a relatively small extraction, bark too thick in the jar, not able to stir in the naphtha, considering splitting it into multiple jars, worrying about making a mess. . .
ALL those worries will be over with the Q21Q21 Tek 2: Fluffy white funfest. Q21Q21 doesn't use unnecessarily large volumes of water. Being a dry tek it is meant to be thick like oatmeal and doesn't need to be contained in a jar because it's not slopping around everywhere. You could do the extraction in a glass bowl, big stainless pot, or HDPE bucket. I use a 5gallon from home depot - plenty high walls to do some vigorous stirring and a you get a lid. I use a ceramic plate the size of the bucket to sort of french press the bark to the bottom of the bucket while I tip it to pour off the naphtha. SO much easier than basting.
Stirring naphtha into a dry tek is more efficient too in my opinion. Like pandemoon was describing, there's only like a 5" sq. plane in a quart jar where the two solvents are in contact, unless you're shaking. With a dry tek, the bark is only as wet as like, sand for a sand-castle. It holds a lot of structure and texture which multiplies the surface area that is in contact with the naphtha during the pull and stirring.
Edited by Icon (07/13/20 09:38 PM)
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
#26822359 - 07/14/20 05:33 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah ive seen some people talking about q21q21 but never really looked into it only because i didnt have lime
Worth a shot to give it a try and see how it compares
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Noobtube
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26822375 - 07/14/20 06:13 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is anyone here from SC and would like to go hunting/give me advice on growing. Iv failed twice so far.
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Icon
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26823164 - 07/14/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said: Yeah ive seen some people talking about q21q21 but never really looked into it only because i didnt have lime
Worth a shot to give it a try and see how it compares
It's worth more than a shot!  Note, you want hydrated lime, not just lime. Calcium hydroxide also goes by kalkwasser in the aquarium industry, or picking lime in the grocery store. https://www.amazon.com/Calcium-Hydroxide-Minimum-Purity-Pound/dp/B07R7YGXSJ/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=calcium+hydroxide&qid=1594756928&sr=8-8
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
#26823313 - 07/14/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Awesome, thanks man! Appreciate the link
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26824725 - 07/15/20 09:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think theres some water in my dish
If thats the case, once i pull out the freezer, would it be best to let it sit and air dry, usually i tip it
Was thinking maybe dont tip it in case the water might pull the dmt crystals out?
I already pulled it out once and let a lot of the naptha evap for a few hours
Right now theres about 0 liquid in there
Looks like i got some crystals but it looks pretty oily and redish
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26825120 - 07/15/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well this is what its looking like about an hour ago
Been sitting out seeing if this puddle will evaporate
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Enkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26829109 - 07/17/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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So it ended up like an old extraction i have, added them together to clean up later

Then pull 3 is this v
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Shroomboofer
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
#26870259 - 08/08/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said: Well i went to do a pull and my naptha was cloudy as fuck, when i sucked it up the shit looked red/ blackish
So i put it back in and didnt do a pull yet
Not sure why its so dark?
First pull was clear as fuck
Wasnt sure if maybe it needs to settle a bit or will i need to pull and re-x it to get rid of whatever is in there..?
Have you looked into the Gordotek method? It's easily found on youtube. Usually results in a pure extraction. It's not ultra pure like synthesis because it's an extraction, but significantly more pure than than using lye. The only down side is it takes a bit more time.
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Northerner
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Don't make things up. Sodium hydroxide teks create pure snow like results for the vast majority of people. Lye free teks have been known about for a very long time, yet the majority still use lye because it is a stronger base and an easier route to the prize.
Gordos is a safer tek that's a hybridisation of classic old teks, that is it's advantage. It's still not as safe as naphtha and lye free teks, but cheaper to do.
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Bloomer


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Quote:
Northerner said: Don't make things up. Sodium hydroxide teks create pure snow like results for the vast majority of people. Lye free teks have been known about for a very long time, yet the majority still use lye because it is a stronger base and an easier route to the prize.
I agree that a good chemist should be able to get clean results with any base, but there's plenty of reasons not to use lye. A base stronger than 10.68 pH is negligible. Calcium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide are both over 11 pH, so neither is technically stronger in this context.
Calcium Hydroxide is actually an easier route to 10.68 pH too because it releases two hydroxyl ions in water compared to just one with sodium hydroxide; making lime twice as effective as lye, by molecule.
Calcium Hydroxide: Ca(OH)2 --> Ca+2 + OH-1 + OH-1 Sodium Hydroxide: NaOH --> Na+1 +OH-1
And when people don't get snow white results, it's often simply because they accidentally sucked up some lye water with their naphtha. You never see that with lime teks because there is no lye water layer to accidentally suck up.
Lime is noob-proof. Give me one good reason to use lye.
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openmind
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
#26871597 - 08/09/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said: ......And when people don't get snow white results, it's often simply because they accidentally sucked up some lye water with their naphtha. You never see that with lime teks because there is no lye water layer to accidentally suck up.
Lime is noob-proof. Give me one good reason to use lye.
Can lime be used instead of lye in a typical/simple A/B extraction with out anything else in the process being changed?
-OM
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: openmind]
#26871743 - 08/09/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said:
I agree that a good chemist should be able to get clean results with any base, but there's plenty of reasons not to use lye. A base stronger than 10.68 pH is negligible. Calcium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide are both over 11 pH, so neither is technically stronger in this context.
Calcium Hydroxide is actually an easier route to 10.68 pH too because it releases two hydroxyl ions in water compared to just one with sodium hydroxide; making lime twice as effective as lye, by molecule.
Calcium Hydroxide: Ca(OH)2 --> Ca+2 + OH-1 + OH-1 Sodium Hydroxide: NaOH --> Na+1 +OH-1
And when people don't get snow white results, it's often simply because they accidentally sucked up some lye water with their naphtha. You never see that with lime teks because there is no lye water layer to accidentally suck up.
Lime is noob-proof. Give me one good reason to use lye.
Lye is ten times cheaper here, and the extra max ph can help can break down plant matter more effectively if you're not using MHRB. There's two.
Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions. >13 is the usual desired pH.
I've used calcium hydroxide STB in viridis extractions because it doesn't release anywhere near as many fats. That's a good use for it. I'm not sure of the science why.
But sure, lye is certainly more hazardous. It is a good reason not to use it if you're not used to handling chemicals.
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Shroomboofer
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon] 1
#26871776 - 08/09/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said:
Quote:
Northerner said: Don't make things up. Sodium hydroxide teks create pure snow like results for the vast majority of people. Lye free teks have been known about for a very long time, yet the majority still use lye because it is a stronger base and an easier route to the prize.
I agree that a good chemist should be able to get clean results with any base, but there's plenty of reasons not to use lye. A base stronger than 10.68 pH is negligible. Calcium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide are both over 11 pH, so neither is technically stronger in this context.
Calcium Hydroxide is actually an easier route to 10.68 pH too because it releases two hydroxyl ions in water compared to just one with sodium hydroxide; making lime twice as effective as lye, by molecule.
Calcium Hydroxide: Ca(OH)2 --> Ca+2 + OH-1 + OH-1 Sodium Hydroxide: NaOH --> Na+1 +OH-1
And when people don't get snow white results, it's often simply because they accidentally sucked up some lye water with their naphtha. You never see that with lime teks because there is no lye water layer to accidentally suck up.
Lime is noob-proof. Give me one good reason to use lye.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but lye is a stronger base that results in more dissolved fats in the aqueous solution, making it more available to be picked up by the naphtha. Also, the other part of the equation to base strength is the pKb. The lower the value, the more easily the base dissociates and becomes active. Calcium hydroxide has 2.43 and 1.4 (value for each hydroxide) and lye is 0.2. Since pKb is a function of negative log, every decrease by 1 is an increase in ten fold dissociation. https://www.chembuddy.com/?left=BATE&right=dissociation_constants
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Shroomboofer
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Quote:
Northerner said: Lye is ten times cheaper here, and the extra max ph can help can break down plant matter more effectively if you're not using MHRB. There's two.
Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions. >13 is the usual desired pH.
I've used calcium hydroxide STB in viridis extractions because it doesn't release anywhere near as many fats. That's a good use for it. I'm not sure of the science why.
But sure, lye is certainly more hazardous. It is a good reason not to use it if you're not used to handling chemicals.
I think it depends, my local walmart sells 1 lb of food grade calcium hydroxide for about $3.
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Bloomer


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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: openmind]
#26871821 - 08/09/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions. >13 is the usual desired pH.
Sodium carbonate? You have me confused, I'm talking about hydroxides specifically. But anything over 11 will work equally well for basing DMT.
Are you sure you've searched hard enough for hydrated lime? It's actually cheaper than lye online in USA. $22 / 5lb Calcium Hydroxide $35 / 5lb Sodium Hydroxide Plus you only need half as much lime to get the job done, so lime lasts twice as long, making it 3x cheaper than lye in USA.
Quote:
openmind said: Can lime be used instead of lye in a typical/simple A/B extraction with out anything else in the process being changed?
Yes, it can. With lime you can simplify it further by needing way less volume of water to complete the extraction. When you use minimal water with lime the bark mix becomes a dry, sandy-clay consistency. Dry-teks can scale up much easier since you can replace all that water volume from typical A/B's with more bark+lime mix. I can extract a couple kilos in a 5 gallon bucket. You'd need like a 20 gallon jar to do that with typical A/B. I think it's a lot cleaner to work with too since you're not sloshing around pitch-black lye water. You can stir the naphtha through the lime-bark like a bowl of cereal, then pour it back out while holding back the bark-lime-clay.
But yes you can do it the traditional way with huge volumes of water and simply substitute calcium hydroxide. It'll work the same and be safer to handle, just unnecessarily wasteful.
Edited by Icon (08/09/20 03:56 PM)
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Bloomer


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Quote:
smm97 said: Correct me if I'm wrong, but lye is a stronger base that results in more dissolved fats in the aqueous solution, making it more available to be picked up by the naphtha. Also, the other part of the equation to base strength is the pKb. The lower the value, the more easily the base dissociates and becomes active. Calcium hydroxide has 2.43 and 1.4 (value for each hydroxide) and lye is 0.2. Since pKb is a function of negative log, every decrease by 1 is an increase in ten fold dissociation. https://www.chembuddy.com/?left=BATE&right=dissociation_constants
Sounds like you know more about it than me. I don't fully understand the relationship between pka and pkb and how best to compare bases. I just saw those equations somewhere and all the lime teks call for way less lime. I've never actually tested side by side how much you need of one or the other to hit 10.68 ph. I think exceeding 10.68 isn't necessarily a good thing, though. Does it "break up" the fats like Northerner says, or allow more fats to be pulled out in the naphtha?
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
#26871850 - 08/09/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm in Australia, don't see cheap food grade lime here. Not enough pickling or aquarium enthusiasts unfortunately.
Quote:
Icon said:
Quote:
Northerner said: Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions. >13 is the usual desired pH.
Sodium carbonate? You have me confused, I'm talking about hydroxides specifically. But anything over 11 will work equally well for basing DMT.
Hydroxide or not I think you are mistaken. Look closer.
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
#26871888 - 08/09/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said: Does it "break up" the fats like Northerner says, or allow more fats to be pulled out in the naphtha?
I didn't say that. I said lye is better to "break down plant matter" and that calcium hydroxide "doesn't release anywhere near as many fats".
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Edited by Northerner (08/09/20 05:18 PM)
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Shroomboofer
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Quote:
Northerner said: I'm in Australia, don't see cheap food grade lime here. Not enough pickling or aquarium enthusiasts unfortunately.
Not sure if you're interested in a project, but you can actually make your own lime using calcium carbonate and heat, just have to account for the difference in mass in mass and missing water.
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Northerner
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That's really cool hey. Don't reckon I'd do it but the reaction process is awesome.
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Bloomer


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Quote:
Northerner said: I'm in Australia, don't see cheap food grade lime here. Not enough pickling or aquarium enthusiasts unfortunately.
Quote:
Icon said:
Quote:
Northerner said: Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions. >13 is the usual desired pH.
Sodium carbonate? You have me confused, I'm talking about hydroxides specifically. But anything over 11 will work equally well for basing DMT.
Hydroxide or not I think you are mistaken. Look closer.
You think I'm mistaken, but you're not sure and can't explain yourself? That post you made doesn't even make sense. Look closer at what? The two broken sentences you made? "Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions." Who was talking about carbonate, and why are you saying it is no good for DMT extractions? 99% of DMT will be freebase over 11 pH, so sodium carbonate is also fine for dmt extractions. What are you talking about? Where are you getting 13 as the desired pH? Based on what? You're wasting my time, dude. Look closer at this
Edited by Icon (08/10/20 06:27 PM)
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
#26873859 - 08/10/20 06:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Come back and show us your fantastic yield from your sodium carbonate extraction. I'm glad we've got you to show us all that everyone has been using unnecessarily harsh chemicals to extract DMT for the last 20 years.
Sodium carbonate although over 11 is a weak base and will not lyse the plant cells sufficiently to free all the DMT to be based. Not only that the acids in the cells are likely to buffer the alkaloids from the reaction. It's been tried, lots of times. People get brown goo. Anyhow, I gave you the opportunity to research and learn this yourself and get more information to further pad your knowledge. Instead you want to be spoonfed like a baby and lump insults.
It's not the first time you've consistently attacked me rather than speaking like a grown adult on topics. Get a grip man.
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Edited by Northerner (08/10/20 06:54 PM)
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Bloomer


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Re: Dmt extraction *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Northerner]
#26874199 - 08/10/20 10:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Icon
Reason for deletion: not worth it
Edited by Icon (08/10/20 10:26 PM)
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Northerner
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
#26874336 - 08/11/20 01:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Another rant misquoting and attacking me. You're a gem buddy.
I don't know of another pressure cooking teks besides the one that I started with "there is no new science here". There's no reputation of any tek there, there's no claim to fame and there's fuck all likes or comments on it. It's for Aussies with Acuminata and pretty much everyone here is using MHRB.
You have no idea about the trees and plant sources I grow, the botanical exploratory experiments I have done nor anything about me in general. I don't go posting my stuff here. In fact we haven't spoke in a long time, not since the last time I blocked you for being overemotional and hyper-aggressive.
Calcium hydroxide teks have been around for a very long time, as I said I've found uses for them that are great and there are pros. They do not work as effectively on most species. Breaking down the bark to get the prize out of Acacia is much more intensive. Systematically freezing and boiling is a hell of a long journey, nuking the fuck out of it with lye and just letting it sit there is much easier. I let this slide over to all bark teks because I don't like labour intensive extractions and it straight up works. Though if I look at confusa again it would be interesting to try lime. Not because it's going to make purer DMT though, if I suck up the basic slurry the DMT will still be tainted.
You said any base stronger than 10.68 is negligible for DMT extractions. I presented sodium carbonate at 11.6, you say I'm making no sense because it's not a hydroxide. I was trying not to be confrontational and come straight out and tell you that you are wrong because you go fucking bananas if threatened. Typing "DMT sodium carbonate extraction" into Google and reading the first page is not a weeks research either.
I grew up with emotionally abusive people, I know all the games man. Personal attacks, misquoting, antagonism, playing stupid, gaslighting, false morality, yelling, repeating oneself... I don't know why I even bother to defend myself against such psychotic behavior anymore.
Adios.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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