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christopera
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421]
#26812730 - 07/09/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do you have any proof that BLM protesters have been responsible for more deaths than the police?
Please provide a source.
Also show where I’ve made a strawman? I asked you a question that you’ve since avoided answering. That’s not a strawman.
You’ve amended your fictional claim, then failed to address that the new claim is cherry picking data.
Nobody is interested in camp fire stories but you. You’ve continued to provide false analysis and poorly chosen data to support your claims.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
Edited by christopera (07/09/20 11:48 AM)
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Vahn421
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#26812731 - 07/09/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Black people getting arrested and imprisoned more than whites is proof of our racist justice system
No it's not. This isn't even worth addressing further. It's just not.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/09/20 11:48 AM)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421] 2
#26812733 - 07/09/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sounds like an appeal to authority there bucko.
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Vahn421
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: christopera]
#26812757 - 07/09/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Please provide a source.
In America, only 13 unarmed black men were shot by police last year. You can easily google this. (And we can't assume they were all acting harmless.)
In America, there were several hundred shootings over 4th of July weekend ALONE with over 100 killed. This is also EASILY googled. This number is way up from the norm because of the state of chaos BLM riots has created. Do your own homework.
No one gives a shit about any of those lives, really. Two little girls were shot and killed in the vicinity of BLM riots.
Here and here.
Quote:
I asked you a question that you’ve since avoided answering
I've done no such thing, but you sure like saying "campfire stories." Gawd, I think you've said it like 4 times now. Is that the ONLY thing you can come up with? If you're going to sidestep rational debate and go all Machiavellian on me, at least be more original. I'm getting bored... it doesn't even really make any sense, either.
Quote:
You’ve amended your fictional claim, then failed to address that the new claim is cherry picking data.
I addressed it *directly.* You're hilarious.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/09/20 12:10 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421] 2
#26812764 - 07/09/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Couldn't back up their claim that a correlation exists between crime levels and 'Defund the Police' campaigns - or their claim that "the least worst option we have is police forces" - so instead they decide to pull out the ol' 13/52...
Yes, definitely rooted in reality
I've given you plenty of empirical data already. I don't even know what planet you're on any longer. You've not even ATTEMPTED to explain why the previous data I've pointed out isn't good enough for you and instead you still insist I've shown you nothing.
In debate class you'd be failing for not at least addressing the things I've pointed out. I've addressed EVERYTHING you've said, INCLUDING the things that I accidentally missed, you pointed OUT I missed, and then I went back and answered anyway.
Talk about one-sided, here.
Sorry but none of your "empirical data" was relevant to your claim that a correlation exists between crime levels and 'Defund the Police' campaigns, nor your claim that "the least worst option we have is police forces". This was your goalpost shifting response: "I have far more relevant data as to why the movement is a complete joke in the first place if the BLM protesters care about black lives." Probably because you couldn't find anything to support your lies.
This is your chance to prove me wrong but quoting your posts that provide supportive empirical data.
Or not, because we all know it's bullshit. Better race trolls than you have already tried and failed on this forum.
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Vahn421
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26812802 - 07/09/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sorry but none of your "empirical data" was relevant to your claim that a correlation exists between crime levels and 'Defund the Police' campaigns
So then, debunk it.
Explain to me, in solid detail, why CHAZ'S murder rate per capita being 15 times higher than that of even Detroit isn't a good piece of evidence for why we need to cops to prevent murders.
Explain to me, in solid detail, why we should take BLM seriously even though they are trashing their own cities where cops have withdrawn and have negatively affected their own local black communities.
Explain to me, in solid detail, why even though george floyd was a criminal who held people at weapon point, he gets fucking murals all over the nation, but the same BLM protest WINDS UP BEING RESPONSIBLE for the murder of two little girls and BLM rioters say nothing.
Explain to me, in solid detail, why things things are not correlated to the fact that the presence of cops have withdrawn support in virtually all of these places.
Give me an alternative.
You haven't actually debated me at all, yet. You're just awfully good at saying "lol no that doesn't count."
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/09/20 12:23 PM)
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christopera
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421]
#26812811 - 07/09/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
Please provide a source.
In America, only 13 unarmed black men were shot by police last year. You can easily google this. (And we can't assume they were all acting harmless.)
In America, there were several hundred shootings over 4th of July weekend ALONE with over 100 killed. This is also EASILY googled. This number is way up from the norm because of the state of chaos BLM riots has created. Do your own homework.
No one gives a shit about any of those lives, really. Two little girls were shot and killed in the vicinity of BLM riots.
Here and here.
Quote:
I asked you a question that you’ve since avoided answering
I've done no such thing, but you sure like saying "campfire stories." Gawd, I think you've said it like 4 times now. Is that the ONLY thing you can come up with? If you're going to sidestep rational debate and go all Machiavellian on me, at least be more original. I'm getting bored... it doesn't even really make any sense, either.
Quote:
You’ve amended your fictional claim, then failed to address that the new claim is cherry picking data.
I addressed it *directly.* You're hilarious.
You haven’t avoided my question, yet it’s still unanswered.
That’s a lot of words when you could have just admitted that you are telling scary stories in regards to BLM killing more than the police.
You used the word “amended” in regards to your false statement. If you dislike that language take it up with yourself. But you’re still cherry picking data. That data is the same data as I provided a source for by the way. So you tried to discredit my source on the grounds that it’s based on arrests then turned around and used numbers from that same arrests data. It’s a bit silly don’t you think?
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Vahn421
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: christopera]
#26812821 - 07/09/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Relating to statistics, "arrests" are not "crimes" are not "murders."
They are all completely different categories.
I didn't draw anything from your data chart. I asked my self if I was getting my wires crossed and Googled my own sources.
One amends one's statement when one realizes he mad a mistake. It's the sign of an ego that is in check.
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You haven’t avoided my question, yet it’s still unanswered.
So then ask again, it seems I must have missed it.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421]
#26812830 - 07/09/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why would I spend time debunking all the irrelevant (and mostly unsourced) "empirical data" you provided, instead of pushing you to support your initial claim? Letting you deflect from a weak argument by choosing to focus on, and debunk, the irrelevant information you continually vomit onto this forum would be to fall for your use of the red herring logical fallacy, and allow you to control the discussion in your favour.
You made the thread, and you made the claims - time to put up or shut up.
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Vahn421
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26812840 - 07/09/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've already put up plenty of information that is plenty relevant. Heaping spoonfuls, even.
Just because it's not good enough for you doesn't mean it's not good enough, period.
My arguments have not been weak. They are so strong, in fact, that you won't even address them.
You'd fail debate class.
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qman
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26812881 - 07/09/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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"The White Fragility Hustle"
MUST WATCH
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421]
#26812891 - 07/09/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Despite making up only 12% of this thread, your posts commit more than 50% of the falsehoods and outright lies.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26812907 - 07/09/20 01:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, looks like I've won this debate.
I've reduced the opposition down to name-calling and accusations without explanation.
No surprises, there.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/09/20 01:21 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421]
#26812946 - 07/09/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: Explain to me, in solid detail, why CHAZ'S murder rate per capita being 15 times higher than that of even Detroit isn't a good piece of evidence for why we need to cops to prevent murders.
Explain to me, in solid detail, how you calculated the per capita murder rate of the CHAZ.
Quote:
Vahn421 said: Explain to me, in solid detail, why we should take BLM seriously even though they are trashing their own cities where cops have withdrawn and have negatively affected their own local black communities.
Explain to me, in solid detail, how this is relevant to your claims that a correlation exists between crime levels and 'Defund the Police' campaigns, and that "the least worst option we have is police forces".
Quote:
Vahn421 said: Explain to me, in solid detail, why even though george floyd was a criminal who held people at weapon point, he gets fucking murals all over the nation, but the same BLM protest WINDS UP BEING RESPONSIBLE for the murder of two little girls and BLM rioters say nothing.
Explain to me, in solid detail, why you attribute the murders of two little girls to BLM; why a criminal history would change the injustice that is George Floyd’s police murder; and how you know that BLM has ignored the deaths of these two girl.
Quote:
Vahn421 said: Explain to me, in solid detail, why things things are not correlated to the fact that the presence of cops have withdrawn support in virtually all of these places.
Explain to me, in solid detail, how even if there is a correlation that this also implies a causation.
And please explain to me, in solid detail, how you know that "the least worst option we have is police forces".
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26813162 - 07/09/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Clearly the way things are is how they should be. Why else would they be this way?
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christopera
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26813188 - 07/09/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: Relating to statistics, "arrests" are not "crimes" are not "murders."
They are all completely different categories.
I didn't draw anything from your data chart. I asked my self if I was getting my wires crossed and Googled my own sources.
One amends one's statement when one realizes he mad a mistake. It's the sign of an ego that is in check.
Quote:
You haven’t avoided my question, yet it’s still unanswered.
So then ask again, it seems I must have missed it.
Go find a source, and provide it. There is about a 95% that your "source" that you you googled referenced the FBI data I provided. Then either they misrepresented the number or you did.
Quote:
Vahn421 said: I've already put up plenty of information that is plenty relevant. Heaping spoonfuls, even.
Just because it's not good enough for you doesn't mean it's not good enough, period.
My arguments have not been weak. They are so strong, in fact, that you won't even address them.
You'd fail debate class.
Basically every one of your points has been made up or intellectually dishonest. When I pointed out that your graphs have no hearing on anything, you simply ignored it.
Quote:
[christopera said:]Neither of those graphs really prove much of anything, not unless you like to tell camp fire stories. Yes, most cities have Democratic mayors. Good work. If you are trying to say that areas with Democratic mayors have higher crime rates due to Democratic governance, you are clearly wrong, as correlations is not causation
Then you made the claim that BLM has killed more people than the police, and you've failed to provide a shed of proof to support the claim.
Then this.
Quote:
Vahn421 said: Well, looks like I've won this debate.
I've reduced the opposition down to name-calling and accusations without explanation.
No surprises, there.
If you are serious about this, then bring some proof! That's all you have to do.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: Vahn421] 2
#26813239 - 07/09/20 04:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: Well, looks like I've won this debate.
I've reduced the opposition down to name-calling and accusations without explanation.
No surprises, there.
“Everyone thinks I’m a fuckin moron, mission accomplished.”
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SirTripAlot
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#26813453 - 07/09/20 06:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: Well, looks like I've won this debate.
I've reduced the opposition down to name-calling and accusations without explanation.
No surprises, there.
“Everyone thinks I’m a fuckin moron, mission accomplished.”
Here, Here.
Homeboy runs up on our set and gets handled......well Vault, welcome to the the poli- forum....Greatness awaits you!
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Vahn421
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Re: The aftermath of Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP. My insights. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26814607 - 07/10/20 08:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've left you more than enough pieces of the puzzle.
Tell you what I'm gonna do. Seattle basically just voted to defund the police by 50%. Should be taking affect by this Summer.
I'm coming back here in a few weeks once the city goes to complete shit to give you all two middle fingers.
In the meantime, enjoy thinking you've all somehow debunked something so absurdly obvious.
Edit: For those that actually live in Seattle, you better move now. Your house value is about to depreciate anywhere between 25-50%
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/10/20 09:09 AM)
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