Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]
Offlineichugwindex
Dex
Female User Gallery


Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,613
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 11 months, 1 day
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller]
    #26820374 - 07/13/20 01:09 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm disgusted by the ignorance and selfishness in this thread.


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChinChiller
Male


Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ichugwindex]
    #26820733 - 07/13/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not super pro-union but was pointing out minimum wage and UBI are not the only two options. As an 'ex-pat of sorts', I dont see UBI in the US as an option anytime soon. Increase the minimum wage to keep up with the cost of goods/ housing on a regional basis.
In the Nordics UBI would be a potential cost saver, eliminating the administrative costs associated with state 'welfare'. The US should figure out Universal Healthcare before moving onto anything resembling UBI imo.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Shenmue]
    #26820758 - 07/13/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
minimum wage jobs are for teenagers and college students.



Why should teenagers and college students get screwed if they can do the job as well as anyone else?

Quote:

Shenmue said:
If you're making minimum wage it's your own fault. The construction trades are in high demand right now so you can easily make real money.



There are only so many jobs available in each skill.  And not everyone can do every job.

Quote:

Shenmue said:
If you want a big paycheck then you need to provide real value.



Companies aren't charities.  They don't keep people who don't provide real value.  They pay as little as they can get away with.

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Even a monkey can work a cash register or make a hamburger. That's why those jobs don't pay anything.



If that were true, then we WOULD hire monkeys to do those jobs and pay them nothing.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller]
    #26820776 - 07/13/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ChinChiller said:
There is a third option, like industry wide collective bargaining agreements. May not be so popular in certain places though, nor very efficient..  :protest:



Any minimum wage employer will refuse to participate.  If they don't, they'll be eaten alive by the competition.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChinChiller
Male


Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Enlil]
    #26820894 - 07/13/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Sector/ industry wide wage agreements would solve the problem with competition, but it wouldn't be very 'American' in that it doesn't align at all with the free-market/ capitalistic nature of the United States.

I wonder which scares big business more...unions bargaining for fair wages in entire sectors of the economy or UBI?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 5 minutes, 51 seconds
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller]
    #26820904 - 07/13/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Definitely unions.

UBI (at least the plans I have seen) are paid for by regressive taxation. Usually with VAT. So the poor people will just be paying themselves. That the rich people have pushed UBI through to protect themselves is a surprise, but I suppose it hasn't gotten bad enough for them to be worried.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChinChiller
Male


Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: christopera]
    #26820954 - 07/13/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I am on the fence about UBI, maybe it will be necessary once everything is automated and huge swaths of the labor force is unemployed. Until then there should be a focus on paying people fairly by

A) increasing minimum wage (nationally/ by region or even by sector of the economy, which would also be interesting)

or

B) increasing the unions negotiating power in regards to wages and other rights (maternity/paternity leave, vacation days, overtime/holiday pay)

Just spitballing here, not the most pragmatic person haha

:2cents:


Edited by ChinChiller (07/13/20 11:45 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 5 minutes, 51 seconds
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller] * 3
    #26820969 - 07/13/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It would be a huge step forward to allow people to opt in to Medicare. That would benefit employers too, especially small employers. Then if we upped the minimum wage in meaningful and regular ways, some of the lowest earners would be a lot better off. Then at the federal level mandated maternity/paternity leave, something like a month or six weeks would be good. These few things would make a huge difference in the quality of life for basically the entire population.

The minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.25 and hasn't been raised since like 2009. Adjusting for inflation it would be like $12 an hour now. It's crazy that nothing is being done, but that last bill (2019) was stopped by Republicans.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,763
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 22 minutes, 21 seconds
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller] * 1
    #26821398 - 07/13/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Mmmmm I'm not a fan of enterprise bargaining. It was sold here as a way to increase productivity in return for more $$ in wages.
Previously hard fought for conditions, like overtime and a 38hr week, went out the window in return for more $$.
The 38hr week was supposed to give people a better quality of life but it was soon traded for more $$ as people's expectations of a new house, new tv, new car became normalised.
In the 70's a family could survive on a single wage and pay off a home. These days both partners have to work while the kids get farmed out to daycare or grand parents, to look after outside of school hours.
Most mining jobs are 12hr shifts, which absolutely flies in the face of the company being safety first, it's bullshit, but they don't try and change it as it saves them $$ and the workers fall for it as they get to buy the new house, new tv, new car :thumbdown:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChinChiller
Male


Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: christopera]
    #26821501 - 07/13/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

That would be great to see happen!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,262
Last seen: 1 hour, 5 minutes
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26821660 - 07/13/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Mmmmm I'm not a fan of enterprise bargaining. It was sold here as a way to increase productivity in return for more $$ in wages.
Previously hard fought for conditions, like overtime and a 38hr week, went out the window in return for more $$.
The 38hr week was supposed to give people a better quality of life but it was soon traded for more $$ as people's expectations of a new house, new tv, new car became normalised.
In the 70's a family could survive on a single wage and pay off a home. These days both partners have to work while the kids get farmed out to daycare or grand parents, to look after outside of school hours.
Most mining jobs are 12hr shifts, which absolutely flies in the face of the company being safety first, it's bullshit, but they don't try and change it as it saves them $$ and the workers fall for it as they get to buy the new house, new tv, new car :thumbdown:




Another interesting thing you didn't mention, the kids are more controlled. In the USSR, I would routinely be left home alone all day starting around age 4-5, as soon as I learned not to play with matches. Lunch was in the fridge, and I had toys and shit.

One of the first things I remember, after coming over to the US, was the cops showing up at my parents door, because they let my 13 year old self walk home from school, and left me unsupervised. My mom almost got arrested for that.

If you're too poor to afford childcare you get punished for working to afford childcare.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChinChiller
Male


Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Kryptos]
    #26822352 - 07/14/20 05:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You'd think at thirteen you would even be able to look after your younger siblings haha


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,763
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 22 minutes, 21 seconds
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Kryptos]
    #26822473 - 07/14/20 07:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
I would routinely be left home alone all day starting around age 4-5, as soon as I learned not to play with matches



:lol:

Another piece in the problem is land prices.
When I started as an apprentice, wages were $80 a week and a block of land was around $6000, in a good area too.
Quite a few of my friends paid of a block during their 4 year apprenticeship... not me though, my money was invested in motorbikes and beer :awesomenod:

A first year apprentice these days earns around $600 a week, and a comparative block of land, you wouldn't get much change out of $180 000.
Using those figures wages have risen 750% and land 3000%
The cost to build a house in the early 80's was around $30-35000. Today you could build a good size 4 bedroom for under $200 000, so pretty much around the same price rise as the rise in wages.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Minimum Wage Revisited
( 1 2 all )
Evolving 4,350 33 04/15/04 12:49 PM
by Tao
* A couple of questions on the minimum wage
( 1 2 all )
Evolving 3,512 29 10/21/03 03:40 PM
by Evolving
* Minimum wage rises, sky does not fall
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Alex213 10,779 106 02/06/07 01:23 AM
by Economist
* Minimum wage: A rich complaint
( 1 2 all )
Alex213 3,479 23 10/04/06 05:41 AM
by Seuss
* Do you think there should be a minimum wage?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl 5,239 63 09/18/07 11:07 PM
by allreadyused
* Should minimum wage be raised?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
RebelSteve33 9,841 94 08/03/12 12:52 AM
by vladtepes
* john edwards for a min. wage increase to 9.50$
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
snoot 9,876 136 08/10/08 08:43 AM
by Prisoner#1
* Target threatens to leave if wage rule OK'd
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
lonestar2004 6,750 82 07/17/06 11:56 AM
by Alex213

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,865 topic views. 3 members, 4 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.