|
ichugwindex
Dex



Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,613
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last seen: 11 months, 1 day
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller]
#26820374 - 07/13/20 01:09 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I'm disgusted by the ignorance and selfishness in this thread.
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
|
ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ichugwindex]
#26820733 - 07/13/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I'm not super pro-union but was pointing out minimum wage and UBI are not the only two options. As an 'ex-pat of sorts', I dont see UBI in the US as an option anytime soon. Increase the minimum wage to keep up with the cost of goods/ housing on a regional basis. In the Nordics UBI would be a potential cost saver, eliminating the administrative costs associated with state 'welfare'. The US should figure out Universal Healthcare before moving onto anything resembling UBI imo.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Shenmue]
#26820758 - 07/13/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shenmue said: minimum wage jobs are for teenagers and college students.
Why should teenagers and college students get screwed if they can do the job as well as anyone else?
Quote:
Shenmue said: If you're making minimum wage it's your own fault. The construction trades are in high demand right now so you can easily make real money.
There are only so many jobs available in each skill. And not everyone can do every job.
Quote:
Shenmue said: If you want a big paycheck then you need to provide real value.
Companies aren't charities. They don't keep people who don't provide real value. They pay as little as they can get away with.
Quote:
Shenmue said: Even a monkey can work a cash register or make a hamburger. That's why those jobs don't pay anything.
If that were true, then we WOULD hire monkeys to do those jobs and pay them nothing.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,495
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller]
#26820776 - 07/13/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ChinChiller said: There is a third option, like industry wide collective bargaining agreements. May not be so popular in certain places though, nor very efficient.. 
Any minimum wage employer will refuse to participate. If they don't, they'll be eaten alive by the competition.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Enlil]
#26820894 - 07/13/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Sector/ industry wide wage agreements would solve the problem with competition, but it wouldn't be very 'American' in that it doesn't align at all with the free-market/ capitalistic nature of the United States.
I wonder which scares big business more...unions bargaining for fair wages in entire sectors of the economy or UBI?
|
christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 5 minutes, 51 seconds
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller]
#26820904 - 07/13/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Definitely unions.
UBI (at least the plans I have seen) are paid for by regressive taxation. Usually with VAT. So the poor people will just be paying themselves. That the rich people have pushed UBI through to protect themselves is a surprise, but I suppose it hasn't gotten bad enough for them to be worried.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
|
ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: christopera]
#26820954 - 07/13/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah I am on the fence about UBI, maybe it will be necessary once everything is automated and huge swaths of the labor force is unemployed. Until then there should be a focus on paying people fairly by
A) increasing minimum wage (nationally/ by region or even by sector of the economy, which would also be interesting)
or
B) increasing the unions negotiating power in regards to wages and other rights (maternity/paternity leave, vacation days, overtime/holiday pay)
Just spitballing here, not the most pragmatic person haha
Edited by ChinChiller (07/13/20 11:45 AM)
|
christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 5 minutes, 51 seconds
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller] 3
#26820969 - 07/13/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
It would be a huge step forward to allow people to opt in to Medicare. That would benefit employers too, especially small employers. Then if we upped the minimum wage in meaningful and regular ways, some of the lowest earners would be a lot better off. Then at the federal level mandated maternity/paternity leave, something like a month or six weeks would be good. These few things would make a huge difference in the quality of life for basically the entire population.
The minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.25 and hasn't been raised since like 2009. Adjusting for inflation it would be like $12 an hour now. It's crazy that nothing is being done, but that last bill (2019) was stopped by Republicans.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
|
Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,763
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 22 minutes, 21 seconds
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: ChinChiller] 1
#26821398 - 07/13/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Mmmmm I'm not a fan of enterprise bargaining. It was sold here as a way to increase productivity in return for more $$ in wages. Previously hard fought for conditions, like overtime and a 38hr week, went out the window in return for more $$. The 38hr week was supposed to give people a better quality of life but it was soon traded for more $$ as people's expectations of a new house, new tv, new car became normalised. In the 70's a family could survive on a single wage and pay off a home. These days both partners have to work while the kids get farmed out to daycare or grand parents, to look after outside of school hours. Most mining jobs are 12hr shifts, which absolutely flies in the face of the company being safety first, it's bullshit, but they don't try and change it as it saves them $$ and the workers fall for it as they get to buy the new house, new tv, new car
|
ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: christopera]
#26821501 - 07/13/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
That would be great to see happen!
|
Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,262
Last seen: 1 hour, 5 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Stable Genius said: Mmmmm I'm not a fan of enterprise bargaining. It was sold here as a way to increase productivity in return for more $$ in wages. Previously hard fought for conditions, like overtime and a 38hr week, went out the window in return for more $$. The 38hr week was supposed to give people a better quality of life but it was soon traded for more $$ as people's expectations of a new house, new tv, new car became normalised. In the 70's a family could survive on a single wage and pay off a home. These days both partners have to work while the kids get farmed out to daycare or grand parents, to look after outside of school hours. Most mining jobs are 12hr shifts, which absolutely flies in the face of the company being safety first, it's bullshit, but they don't try and change it as it saves them $$ and the workers fall for it as they get to buy the new house, new tv, new car 
Another interesting thing you didn't mention, the kids are more controlled. In the USSR, I would routinely be left home alone all day starting around age 4-5, as soon as I learned not to play with matches. Lunch was in the fridge, and I had toys and shit.
One of the first things I remember, after coming over to the US, was the cops showing up at my parents door, because they let my 13 year old self walk home from school, and left me unsupervised. My mom almost got arrested for that.
If you're too poor to afford childcare you get punished for working to afford childcare.
|
ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Kryptos]
#26822352 - 07/14/20 05:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
You'd think at thirteen you would even be able to look after your younger siblings haha
|
Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,763
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 22 minutes, 21 seconds
|
Re: The Minimum Wage Machine [Re: Kryptos]
#26822473 - 07/14/20 07:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kryptos said: I would routinely be left home alone all day starting around age 4-5, as soon as I learned not to play with matches

Another piece in the problem is land prices. When I started as an apprentice, wages were $80 a week and a block of land was around $6000, in a good area too. Quite a few of my friends paid of a block during their 4 year apprenticeship... not me though, my money was invested in motorbikes and beer 
A first year apprentice these days earns around $600 a week, and a comparative block of land, you wouldn't get much change out of $180 000. Using those figures wages have risen 750% and land 3000% The cost to build a house in the early 80's was around $30-35000. Today you could build a good size 4 bedroom for under $200 000, so pretty much around the same price rise as the rise in wages.
|
|